Swift Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Well, by noting that both the Skins and their opponent have fumbled the exact same number of times, but the difference in turnover differential seems to be mostly about who has recovered them, I tried to make the case that GW's system is, to date, proving every bit as conducive to producing turnovers as who we've been playing against. It's just that damn slippery orb being difficult. Not sure I made the case ... but there it is. No, you did a good job arguing that in your original article. I'm just saying that I hope you're right. Other members of this board have come up with interesting statistical evidence regarding GW's defenses in the past. They usually rank in the bottom half of the league in turnovers, but IMO, it's too hard to separate the effectiveness of the system vs. effectiveness of the players that he's working with. BTW, thanks for typing up that piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheBeastTaylor Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Nice job, just one question.... Do you have a day job??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 It is this type of post that shoves a fat one up the [place where no sun shines] of the 'real reporters'. Real journalism, only available on ES. Thanks OM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Another [lovemaking] fantastic article from Om! Great job as always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 What? No dictionary definitions? Damn, Om. How am I supposed to expand my vocab, man? Get with it, will you? Oh, and nice article too. Even without my vocab lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 "I agree 100%" We have lost 2 games in the hardest stadiums to win in and only because we beat ourselves with turn overs. The best part is, turnovers can and will be worked through and fixed, example Tiki Barber and NY. This will also make our offense worth another 10 to 17 points per game which is good enough to beat any team in the NFL and win the NFC East. I am also 100% confident that the Redskins will be batteling head to head for the Division Championship because I have seen how Joe Gibbs built the Redskins his 1st time here in 1981 and was in the Superbowl the very next year. This being his second year again and look how good the Redskins are playing, this team can beat any team in the NFL when they stop the turnovers. Then the ball will start bouncing our way and then come the victories of teams we wasnt even expected to beat. If anyone thinks this Redskins team isnt a playoff and possibly a Superbowl team, then you dont know a Joe Gibbs team because they play even better late in the season when the race is on for the Playoffs. "The Redskins now days are a Joe Gibbs team" There only going to get better and better every week, to you young and newer Redskins fans, you are in for treat because Joe Gibbs is a builder of "Champions" and from 1982-1992 was in 4 Superbowls, almost half the Superbowls out of 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chants Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Om. That was extremely well done. /bow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Good work, very interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Om, teams that take big leads in a football game usually win. Such teams then get turnovers by pressuring their opponent who has to force things and take risks to catch up. This is very similar to the often misunderstood correlation between winning and 100 yard rushing days for a teams premier back. Yardage gained when the team is ahead and protecting the lead creates a false picture. Your argument would be more forceful without those deceptive numbers in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gex Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 good job! is it ok. if i print it and frame it and mount it to my wall!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Now that piece is why I come to this site. Om, an outstanding bit of work, you do yourself and ES proud. Nice to hear that others know what it means when JG gets a lil smoked, things are gonna start happenin'. Fans that have followed the Skins for a long time can look at them and see where we were last year and how far they've come this season. I'm jazzed! Now, where do I find one of those monstrous flags they carry out on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalSkinsFan Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [Gosh freaking darn]!!! I get so fired up after reading Om's articles, I'm ready for gametime right here, right now. As always, very well thought out, accurate, and very well written. :applause: If anyone with half a brain has a problem with why the Redskins chose Extremeskins.com as the official message board, they need to get that half slapped silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Between the [lovemaking] and [illegitimate offspring] lines I was laughing outloud. Great article Om. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Dead on, as usual Maestro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333redskins333 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I have to go through the redskins argument hard core every damn day but i dont give a hell ill keep on arguing till my heart stops cause the redskins are the best thats the only team i like except for a partial like of the raiders but i hate randy i have goten in some pretty bad trouble over some argument and i know all of yall know what im talkin bout us skins fans hold it all down. the arguing shyt sucks but i always come out on top of it once i bust out all the stats and the highlight reels and a bunch of other stuff i do to prove my point. all yall have just added on to what ill have to say tom good lookin out. if any REDSKINS fans wanna talk or what not i have an aol instant messanger name JDATKreppinJ im on alot. i dont want no other fans to talk to me ur #1 team has to be the redskins i dont wanna talk to all yall other haters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I think it means, a year-and-a-half into his return after an eleven-year hiatus, that one of the great coaches in the history of the game is 100% back in the groove. I think it means that, just as he did twenty years ago when leading his team to unprecedented heights, he is once again fully engaged and quite intentionally putting himself “out front” for his team -- making himself the lightning rod. And I’m 100% convinced that his passion, commitment and resolve are resonating in the locker room. My feelings exactly. And comments from the players since the season began seem to echo the sentiment, ( Lavar drama not included). May not be just what they say but how they say it. Can't pin it down, just a feeling, but these guys are Gibbs guys now. "I understand how you feel. You see, it's all very clear to me now. The whole thing. It's wonderful." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrieg07 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Om, I agree with what you said about Gibbs; after watching every press conference last year I didn't see a destinctive difference between the winning and losing ones. This year I see the difference. Like you said, Gibbs is truly back in the groove. I don't like to see the skins lose, but when they do, I'm glad when I see Gibbs angry. Joe is truly sick and tired of being second guessed, and questioned for returning to football. I think that now he sees the true talent and potential of this team. Last year I thought that even he (Gibbs) didn't believe in us. Already at 3-2 this year is much different. The sight on the sidelines of MNF in Dallas is what I know we can see again towards the end of this year. When the bounces start going our way, and with the character and talent on this roster, the Redskins can be one of the best teams in the conference. Sept 04 Gibbs returns to the Redskins. Oct 05 Gibbs is back! Hail to the Redskins!:gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I, too, believe the Redskins are special. And you, my friend, have expressed it in a special way. Turnovers. I have no doubt that this team will produce turnovers for positive effect, in our favor. It has only been 5 games. Every week I am anxious to see improvement in their play, that the team show composure throughout the game. It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1311 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Great read man! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 great read as always, om. you got me all fired up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I have read the article. I am all aflutter.......weak in the knees.......feeling all hot. Either I loved the article and am READY for Sunday.......... or I am sick. I'll go with LOVING it! Another great one Sir. Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtdetri Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Great read..I too pray to the gods that we can finally shut all the critics up for once. I just want to see all those damn Eagle fans ( That I unfortunately live by ) faces when we snatch the crown out of their dull talons. I know the great rivalry is Dallas , but for me it's those loudmouth, obnoxious, arrogant , piece of s**t eagles and their fans ( Sorry about that , Just had to vent ) I have had a contest with some friends that are Eagle fans. Its the old pie in the face whoever wins contest. My wife and I have been , well lets just say wearing our team on our faces for quite some time in the form of chocolate cream . I have been mulling over the idea of quitting the bet each and every season but just can't do it. The thought of getting one chance to get even keeps us diligent in our quest to ridicule these two Jacka*# I mean friends.. Go Skins...All Hail JG...:eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nice job, just one question.... Do you have a day job??? Why, you hiring? Om,teams that take big leads in a football game usually win. Such teams then get turnovers by pressuring their opponent who has to force things and take risks to catch up. This is very similar to the often misunderstood correlation between winning and 100 yard rushing days for a teams premier back. Yardage gained when the team is ahead and protecting the lead creates a false picture. Your argument would be more forceful without those deceptive numbers in my opinion. Deceptive numbers? That’s pretty argumentative, don’t you think? As I said in the piece, numbers and stats can ALWAYS be argued via context. But I’d add that not all stats are created equal either. Some are more telling than others. For the sake of discussion, however ... seems to me for your argument to hold up you’d have to provide numbers to support your contention that most turnovers come when teams are up and can thus “pressure their opponent.” It SOUNDS reasonable enough, but let’s see some evidence. Frankly, I don’t see where that scenario fits into any of the 5 games the Skins have played thus far. Do you? Still, I’m more than prepared to learn something here, so if you think you can, by all means please come up with some numbers (not deceptive ones, mind you) and make your case. Anyway, that wasn’t really my point in the piece. My point was that, for whatever reason, teams at the bottom of the turnover differential scale lose games. A lot of them. Washington, while among the very worst in that category in the league at this moment, is still managing to win, and be highly competitive in tough situations when they don’t. History suggests that is unusual. I found it both unusual and noteworthy, especially in context of my belief that their current -6 disparity in fumble recoveries alone is at least as much about chance as anything else. Just for the record, here are the final turnover differential standings for the last 2 years (I’d go deeper, but NFL.com only provides cumulative league stats as far back as ‘03. If anyone can dig them up from prior to then, by all means please do). If one can look at these numbers and still say this stat, parseable is it may be, isn’t perhaps the starkest barometer of wins and losses of ANY stat in football, what we may have here may simply be a failure to communicate. 2004 Turnover Differential 2003 Turnover Differential good job! is it ok. if i print it and frame it and mount it to my wall!! No. That’s just weird. Dead on, as usual Maestro. The monolith pic, my friend, gave me an ohmygod moment. That is perhaps the most creative / coolest / most humbling / most flattering thing I have ever seen. I have read the article.I am all aflutter.......weak in the knees.......feeling all hot. Either I loved the article and am READY for Sunday.......... or I am sick. I'll go with LOVING it! Another great one Sir. Blondie Stop that. 45-year-old family men aren’t supposed to blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nice article Om. I'd have gone with "inverse" rather than "converse," but that's just me. I also can't help but cringe at the fact that you and Pastabelly both share a penchant for using the same turn of phrase: "it says here." But enough editorial nerdness, back to football: I think you make a strong argument that there is nothing inherent in GW's system keeping us from causing fumbles. One might still argue, however, that the strict adherence to gap assignments required by the system does limit the defenses ability to recover fumbles. That seems to be the most-likely explanation for your statistics showing we create as many fumbles as other defenses, and the statistics from others on the site who have shown the historical parcity of turnovers from GW defenses. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nice article Om. I'd have gone with "inverse" rather than "converse," but that's just me. I also can't help but cringe at the fact that you and Pastabelly both share a penchant for using the same turn of phrase: "it says here." But enough editorial nerdness, back to football: I’m having Mrs. Alexander’s English Class flashbacks. And I am alarmed about the Lenny P thing. I call upon him to cease and desist immediately. I think you make a strong argument that there is nothing inherent in GW's system keeping us from causing fumbles. One might still argue, however, that the strict adherence to gap assignments required by the system does limit the defenses ability to recover fumbles. That seems to be the most-likely explanation for your statistics showing we create as many fumbles as other defenses, and the statistics from others on the site who have shown the historical parcity of turnovers from GW defenses. :2cents: Could be. Some of the fumbles have occurred with not enough Skins around, and part of that may be that folks aren’t always where they’re technically supposed to be (I hinted at that part of the issue a bit with the “hustle” comment, but didn’t pursue it much because I didn’t want it to detract from the main point—that being on the negative end of the differential scale, regardless of the reasons, is such a strong statistical indicator of win/losses). But some have also come when the loose ball was surrounded by Skins, and still managed to worm its way through their grasp and into the belly of a lone wrong-colored jersey. It took me a while before I got comfortable enough to actually put that in writing—it smacks of hinting there are mystical forces at work, and I really hate that. But I’ve seen it enough, going back to last year and beyond, to think that at some point the coin has to start landing on the other side again from time to time. Hell, I’d even settle for it landing on its SIDE a few times. Maybe that would at least keep our fumbles from seemingly always not only bouncing to the other guys, but doing so in such a fashion that it actually bounces up as pretty as you please so a guy can scoop it up in stride and go the other direction for a cheap TD. Grumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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