If Jordan bet on sports, should he be banned?

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

It's just an idea. Link is on the bottom for short news story.

If it were to be found that Michael Jordan bet on sports, or even worse, basketball and the Bulls themselves - should he be banned from the Hall of Fame?

The obvious reason I ask this is because Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life when the MLB found out. Do you think if the NBA found out MJ bet on basketball while in the league, he would have been banned?

This is an idea, not a proposition, I don't know what he's bet on. I just get baffled at how sportsmen are punished much harder when they bet than when they do narcotics, bash people's faces in to ice so their necks break, or when they DO STEROIDS. I mean, is it not a prooven scientific study that tells us gambling is dangerously addicting, sort of like drugs? Why a worse penalty then?

And would there be a difference with Rose because of his rank among baseball greats? Sure, he leads Major League history in hits but he's no Michael Jordan. A baseball Michael Jordan would be a mix of Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Walter Johnson. If there were, though, would that man be banned for a disease-like addiction?

Just would like to hear your thoughts.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2197904

[Ghost of]

Well, Jordan DID bet on sports, both sports he played in his off-time(golf) and probably football or something.

There is no evidence he bet on basketball and not even a whisper that he bet on his own games.

Pete Rose bet on his sports, potentially impacting the game and the season, even if he bet on HIS team to win. Since the Black Sox scandal, sports leagues frown greatly upon the idea of anyone betting on their own sport, ESPECIALLY their own games.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Well, Jordan DID bet on sports, both sports he played in his off-time(golf) and probably football or something.

There is no evidence he bet on basketball and not even a whisper that he bet on his own games.

Pete Rose bet on his sports, potentially impacting the game and the season, even if he bet on HIS team to win. Since the Black Sox scandal, sports leagues frown greatly upon the idea of anyone betting on their own sport, ESPECIALLY their own games.

I said twice that this is not a proposition.

If he bet on basketball - should he be banned?

[Spaceman Spiff]

MJ is teflon. Even if he were banned...i mean 6 rings, a bunch of mvps...BFD if he did, i mean how does it get much better than that? Through the betting, through the quitting in the middle of his career, through his multiple comebacks, through the cheating on his wife... people still love him and he can do no wrong.

As for Rose....he bet on his games as a manager, so he should be suspended for what he did as a manager.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

MJ is teflon. Even if he were banned...i mean 6 rings, a bunch of mvps...BFD if he did, i mean how does it get much better than that? Through the betting, through the quitting in the middle of his career, through his multiple comebacks, through the cheating on his wife... people still love him and he can do no wrong.

As for Rose....he bet on his games as a manager, so he should be suspended for what he did as a manager.

I agree, but lifetime ban? And everybody's O.K. with that? Mind you his lifetime ban came before his decade of denial. My whole point here is that Pete Rose should be celebrated instead of holding a lifetime grudge on one of the great hitters in history.

[Hooper]

He should have been banned after he drafted Kwame with the number one pick.

[Destino]

He should have been banned after he drafted Kwame with the number one pick.

:applause:

exactly.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

He should have been banned after he drafted Kwame with the number one pick.

HA! Yeah, but the only way he'd get banned anywhere in the world is if he came on here and made a Lavar thread.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Are we allowed to say "Lavar Thread?"

[88Comrade2000]

Well they say his first retirement- where he played minor league ball was in fact a ban!

[Ghost of]

Drugs are punished less 'severely'(though you can get lifetime banned or season-banning) because they are a sin of addiction or merely stupid use. Might as well ban someone for drinking too.

It is assumed that humans are humans and as such some guys will smoke or drink or even do cocaine.

This does not affect the integrity of the game: The belief and the knowledge that aside from the very human elements of motivation, emotion and health that the outcome and complexion of the game you are watching is 'pure.'

Even if a guy does steroids, he still has to hit the ball. It may be a short cut and a dangerous one, but it's not the equivalent of corking the bat or greasing up the ball.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Drugs are punished less 'severely'(though you can get lifetime banned or season-banning) because they are a sin of addiction or merely stupid use. Might as well ban someone for drinking too.

It is assumed that humans are humans and as such some guys will smoke or drink or even do cocaine.

This does not affect the integrity of the game: The belief and the knowledge that aside from the very human elements of motivation, emotion and health that the outcome and complexion of the game you are watching is 'pure.'

Even if a guy does steroids, he still has to hit the ball. It may be a short cut and a dangerous one, but it's not the equivalent of corking the bat or greasing up the ball.

Hate to break it to ya, but corking the bat doesn't do a whole lot. Read Robert K Adair's book "The Physics of Baseball"

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

^

Plus steroids make you able to put the sweet spot of the bat in areas you wouldn't be able to negotiate without them. If you're fooled on a fastball, your bat speed will be able to make up for lost milliseconds and you'll crack it out of the yard. All while eating a doughnut and shooting juice.

I don't quite understand what Ghost is saying. What are the differences between addiction to drugs and addiction to gambling? One puts chemicals in to your body while the other negotiates one's own chemicals. Even Jordan "pushed the envelope and had to have a moment in front of the mirror to change his ways." Sounds like a guy delving in to cocaine, if you ask me.

Kids don't understand gambling, and Rose certainly did not effect the Reds by going against them. He was arguably the most passionate baseball figure in history. No evidence suggests he ever bet against the Reds.

So back to my question, would a figure like Jordan receive a similar punishment for the same circumstance?

[Spaceman Spiff]

So back to my question, would a figure like Jordan receive a similar punishment for the same circumstance?

Mmmmm...no...David Stern is too smart to do that. He still stands to profit a bunch of money when Jordan goes into the basketball hall of fame. Also, if Jordan decides to take ownership of a team or a franchise or get involved again, that's more money to be made.

MJ is the NBA. People look at the NBA before Jordan and after Jordan. He's the single biggest phenomenon in American team sports since Babe Ruth. I mean, the guy actually had a direct impact on the economy.

If something were to happen, David Stern would be smart enough to keep it in house and not leak it to the press. He'd give MJ a slap on the wrist or something, but nothing huge. Jordan, despite his age and retirement status is still one of Stern's go to guys for when he needs some cash or promotion.

[Ghost of]

^

P

I don't quite understand what Ghost is saying. What are the differences between addiction to drugs and addiction to gambling? One puts chemicals in to your body while the other negotiates one's own chemicals. Even Jordan "pushed the envelope and had to have a moment in front of the mirror to change his ways." Sounds like a guy delving in to cocaine, if you ask me.

So back to my question, would a figure like Jordan receive a similar punishment for the same circumstance?

I don't think Jordan would get teh same punishment but he WOULD get punished. It would also have to be investigated (in this hypothetical) whether or not he bet on his own games or just on other games. This would be an important distinction. Then they'd have to determine if he ever bet on anything more than his team winning.

I'd also add that Jordan was a player and though he was THE player and could throw off games, even if he bet on his team to win, it's not as if he had more ability than that to manipulate the team. Jackson still had final say over playing time, sub patterns, etc. Rose was a manager and thus every move he made in a particular game could be with his bet in mind.

As for addiction to drugs/gambling--um, quite simply one is an addiction which affects image of the league and the player's personal life. Gambling affects the INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT.

if people think they're watching something fixed or altered in some unseemly uncompetitive way, it destroys the credibility of the sport.

Someone using drugs is a problem they have, but in some cases, barely even affects the ability of the athlete(mike Irvin.)

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I don't think Jordan would get teh same punishment but he WOULD get punished. It would also have to be investigated (in this hypothetical) whether or not he bet on his own games or just on other games. This would be an important distinction. Then they'd have to determine if he ever bet on anything more than his team winning.

I'd also add that Jordan was a player and though he was THE player and could throw off games, even if he bet on his team to win, it's not as if he had more ability than that to manipulate the team. Jackson still had final say over playing time, sub patterns, etc. Rose was a manager and thus every move he made in a particular game could be with his bet in mind.

As for addiction to drugs/gambling--um, quite simply one is an addiction which affects image of the league and the player's personal life. Gambling affects the INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT.

if people think they're watching something fixed or altered in some unseemly uncompetitive way, it destroys the credibility of the sport.

Someone using drugs is a problem they have, but in some cases, barely even affects the ability of the athlete(mike Irvin.)

Again, Rose never bet against his own team. Why would betting on his own team effect his coaching? He'd want to win whether he bet or not, right? They have many, many documents of baseball bets he made. Every one has a W next to Cincinatti Reds.

Gambling is an addiction, it turns in to something that you lose control of. Kids don't understand what big time gambling is, but knowing that a star athelete took drugs and can still perform at that level can send a message that it won't hurt you. Look at Irvin and LT nowadays, blinged out with Irvin's face going in the HOF any time now and LT enshrined like he's God. Hurry up kids, do drugs and you'll be a superstar. Do gambling and you'll be banned for life.

I don't understand how you put gambling in the same category as cheating. It effects the integrity of the game? How do you figure that? Integrity means to hold up the character of. I think cheating would be a tad worse than gambling that didn't have any effect on 1 single game. How about Jason Giambi? He only got a ZERO game suspension for flat out cheating - still has a job. Sammy got what, a dozen games for corking the bat - still milking millions? How many huge debates and news stories have you heard about the Carolina Panther's players? A few blips? Tod Bertuzzi is back in hockey, it was a headline story for about two weeks and went away. The man snapped a guy's neck and busted his face, and Rose gets the lifetime ban? Is something wrong here?

And it's sad that equal rights only goes so far. Money, power and pop culture can dictate a person's punishment severity. In my eyes, Pete Rose was definitley a better physical player than mental, it's obvious he was subseptable to something that can feast on the mind. Gambling got him, and the league stomps on his face with their boots and laugh while their steroid-users make them money. Bull, in my opinion.

[semiskin]

MJ is teflon. Even if he were banned...i mean 6 rings, a bunch of mvps...BFD if he did, i mean how does it get much better than that? Through the betting, through the quitting in the middle of his career, through his multiple comebacks, through the cheating on his wife... people still love him and he can do no wrong.

As for Rose....he bet on his games as a manager, so he should be suspended for what he did as a manager.

Spaceman, you hit the nail on the head with MJ. I had the opportunity to spend a week with him and his "crew" in June, I was with him at just about every moment he was staying at our hotel. I went to the clubs with him, the casino with him, restaurants, etc. During this time I saw things that I cannot talk about but, whatever it is he does/did, everybody will always love him because he's MJ.

But the way I looked at it was, if I had all his money and power, you and I, and the person standing next to you might do alot of those same things. The one thing that I took from him was that he will not put restrictions on his life because of his fame, he lives his life just like you and I do.

Seriously if you had a couple hundred mil. in the bank, you wouldn't throw some money on a baseball game, or play some high stakes poker?

And banning Jordan would be the worst possible thing for the NBA, just like finding out that all those ball players weren't taking flax seed oil when they were hitting 70 home runs in a season.

[Rocky21]

If something were to happen, David Stern would be smart enough to keep it in house and not leak it to the press. He'd give MJ a slap on the wrist or something, but nothing huge.

I think your scenario is correct and has already happened.

[NavyDave]

Heck No

And if I was Jordan I would bet on myself too.

Heck I'd be six for six in Finals betting.

We are still looking for the next Jordan but not the next Pete Rose

[codeorama]

IF Jordan bet on basketball, then he should be banned from the HoF and any other association with the NBA IMO.

[codeorama]

Heck No

And if I was Jordan I would bet on myself too.

Heck I'd be six for six in Finals betting.

We are still looking for the next Jordan but not the next Pete Rose

So basically, you are saying that certain people should be above the law (or rules)... :doh:

Why am I not suprised.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So basically, you are saying that certain people should be above the law (or rules)... :doh:

Why am I not suprised.

I don't think anyone should be above the law or the rules, just to make my stance on the situation clear.

I just think Jordan is too important for Stern to make an example out of him. Like I said before, Jordan, even in retirement, is Sterns biggest asset.

[codeorama]

I don't think anyone should be above the law or the rules, just to make my stance on the situation clear.

I just think Jordan is too important for Stern to make an example out of him. Like I said before, Jordan, even in retirement, is Sterns biggest asset.

I totally understand what you are saying, but if Jordan has bet on basketball and it becomes public, Stern will be under serious pressure. If he does nothing, then he can't do anything to anyone else from here on out.

[jbooma]

.

Pete Rose bet on his sports, potentially impacting the game and the season, even if he bet on HIS team to win. Since the Black Sox scandal, sports leagues frown greatly upon the idea of anyone betting on their own sport, ESPECIALLY their own games.

Rose was a manager and he had more of an ability to change the outcome of a game for how he managed. Lets say Jordan did bet on NBA games, it is not even close to what Rose did.

[codeorama]

Rose was a manager and he had more of an ability to change the outcome of a game for how he managed. Lets say Jordan did bet on NBA games, it is not even close to what Rose did.

It's the same. Basketball has only 5 players, Jordan had much more of an impact than a manager would. IMO, it would be worse if Jordan had done it.

Rose can only do so much, Jordan could theoretically tank a game if he wanted by passing to the opposition or purposely missing a shot. I don't believe he would have done that, but I'm just pointing out that a player, particularly in basketball, has a much greater impact than a manager.