DieselPwr44 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well, that won't be the case after THIS tepid defensive performance. How so? The Broncos only had 257 yds of total offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Obviously you disagree. That's why you're a bad fan. It's not enough to "root" for your team. You have to be sharp enough to allow yourself the ability to see past PERSONAL favorites to larger issues. You can't, and that's why you're a bad fan. It's one thing to question a failing staff of coaches. I questioned Mike Nolan repeatedly. It's another thing to question a successful coach who's improved our team, brought stability, pride, accountability and honor simply because you like a guy he doesn't. And, of course, you're a bad fan to think his knowledge as to liking that player isn't more insightful than yours. To be a good fan you have to be able to like a player a lot, face the evidence of his failings, and allow yourself to understand it. Arrington's my second favorite player on this team. I hate that he's not out there. I'm just smart enough to know Williams knows more and HE, NOT Arrington, has proven to be the guy I'd rather trust. If this was the first time with Lavar, maybe I'd wonder more. But, another top defensive mind had his fill of Lavar as well. It should tell you the player, not the coach, has to do something different. I think this is a pretty harsh and unnecessary post. It's too bad you feel that way. I consider myself a great fan. I love Gibbs, I love Gregg, and I love our players. I just don't understand how I'm "playing favorites" with our players, but you're not doing the same with our coaches. I mean, think about what you are saying: you cannot EVER disagree with the coaches of the team b/c they have a proven track record? I mean, they are perfect? You really bought this Gibbs is God thing, huh. Now Gregg is God too. And anyone who disagrees with them is committing a mortal sin and will be stricken to the seventh ring of Redskins Fan Hell. I'm sorry, fan's are allowed to disagree with the coaches. Oh, and I never said that Gregg had a vendetta against the Lavar or was doing anything out of personal spite. I just believe that Lavar can make a difference for the better, whether or not he is caught out of position on some plays. Obviously, Gregg disagrees. And you know what, he's the coach. So what he thinks, is what we get. And I root for the defense without Lavar every week. But, that doesnt mean I can't disagree with it. Just try not to be so insulting in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well, that won't be the case after THIS tepid defensive performance. Actually, we'll improve a slot or two most likely after dominating a Top 10 offense and limiting them to just 257 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor ToughLove Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Art I didn't say it was basic all I said was the results are the same as any other defense, except we can't make plays, what good is a D if you can't make plays.If either QB last the last couple of games would hit the open guys both games would not have been close. Now I do think one of the biggest reasons our D suffered today was the fact Springs was not playing. I agree he is our MVP on D this year and we are a different team with him not there. I just hate that we can not get a pass rush unless we blitz and we will not be able to we play our best player who can rush the passer, LA. I don't think Springs was as big of a deal. 14 point were scored on big running plays. Sonny & Sam said Holdman missed the tackle of the first TD (it was hard to get a good view myself). LaMar Marshal got beat for 31 on the 2nd TD. Marcus Washington missed the tackle on the third one. ALL three linebackers gave up big plays that accounted for ALL 21 points. Hmm, good thing they don't give up big plays like LaVar does *lol* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Art, can you really sit there and say that you don't think we need more turnovers? I mean, are you 100% satisfied with the defense right now? It sounds like you think this is the greatest defense ever and turnovers are not an important part of playing defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Tulane, I completely agree with you. I don't really have a problem with "their" line of thinking. It's just hard to believe that "they" are so certain that whatever Williams and Blache are saying is gospel! I'm VERY sceptical because things just don't add up. That doesn't make any of us "bad fans." More like, curious fans. I wish for nothing more than the Skins to make the playoffs every year, and heck, even the Bowl someday! I just hate controversy, and every time I see my team lose a game in which our defense allows 21 points and yet don't at least put every player on the field who COULD make a difference, to ME .. yeah, there's a controversy! That doesn't make me a "bad" fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb7 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I don't think Springs was as big of a deal. 14 point were scored on big running plays. Sonny & Sam said Holdman missed the tackle of the first TD (it was hard to get a good view myself). LaMar Marshal got beat for 31 on the 2nd TD. Marcus Washington missed the tackle on the third one. ALL three linebackers gave up big plays that accounted for ALL 21 points. Hmm, good thing they don't give up big plays like LaVar does *lol* Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 even if we are trying to be more like other franchises who value "team" above players....like Philly and New England. There is a huge difference. They played those guys when they were on their rosters. Look, even if its not at LB a lot, keeping Lavar off the field isn't always the right thing to do. I can think of plenty of runs today where a LB who can fly sideline to sideline would have come in handy. Not for nothing, but the less he's used...the more personal it seems. That's very unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think this is a pretty harsh and unnecessary post. It's too bad you feel that way. I consider myself a great fan. I love Gibbs, I love Gregg, and I love our players. I just don't understand how I'm "playing favorites" with our players, but you're not doing the same with our coaches. I mean, think about what you are saying: you cannot EVER disagree with the coaches of the team b/c they have a proven track record? I mean, they are perfect? You really bought this Gibbs is God thing, huh. Now Gregg is God too. And anyone who disagrees with them is committing a mortal sin and will be stricken to the seventh ring of Redskins Fan Hell. I'm sorry, fan's are allowed to disagree with the coaches. Oh, and I never said that Gregg had a vendetta against the Lavar or was doing anything out of personal spite. I just believe that Lavar can make a difference for the better, whether or not he is caught out of position on some plays. Obviously, Gregg disagrees. And you know what, he's the coach. So what he thinks, is what we get. And I root for the defense without Lavar every week. But, that doesnt mean I can't disagree with it. Just try not to be so insulting in your posts. Again, TSF, no, you're not allowed to disagree with coaches. You need to understand what this means. If Gregg Williams says Lavar Arrington is making mistakes in practice and has to play better in practice to play you can't disagree. You have no contrary opinion. There IS no contrary opinion. It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. It's a matter of fact and fact can't be countered by an opinion. There are areas you can disagree with the coaches on. Like, I think going shotgun on third and 1 is a bad idea. I thought we should have run a couple of times there on that last drive before we did. These are areas of opinion that you can certainly express different thoughts. What you can't do is disagree that Williams' actions aren't actually for the obvious reasons they are. And you can't disagree and offer an opinion that no, despite what Williams says, Lavar is doing great at practice. You need to process the facts of this situation and realize what you know enough to disagree with or agree with. I'm not seeing that many of you on this side of things do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Tulane,I completely agree with you. I don't really have a problem with "their" line of thinking. It's just hard to believe that "they" are so certain that whatever Williams and Blache are saying is gospel! I'm VERY sceptical because things just don't add up. That doesn't make any of us "bad fans." More like, curious fans. I wish for nothing more than the Skins to make the playoffs every year, and heck, even the Bowl someday! I just hate controversy, and every time I see my team lose a game in which our defense allows 21 points and yet don't at least put every player on the field who COULD make a difference, to ME .. yeah, there's a controversy! That doesn't make me a "bad" fan! No, it doesn't at all! Keep it up. Don't let guys like Art make you feel bad for disagreeing with the coaches that you root for every week either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Again, TSF, no, you're not allowed to disagree with coaches.You need to understand what this means. If Gregg Williams says Lavar Arrington is making mistakes in practice and has to play better in practice to play you can't disagree. You have no contrary opinion. There IS no contrary opinion. It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. It's a matter of fact and fact can't be countered by an opinion. There are areas you can disagree with the coaches on. Like, I think going shotgun on third and 1 is a bad idea. I thought we should have run a couple of times there on that last drive before we did. These are areas of opinion that you can certainly express different thoughts. What you can't do is disagree that Williams' actions aren't actually for the obvious reasons they are. And you can't disagree and offer an opinion that no, despite what Williams says, Lavar is doing great at practice. You need to process the facts of this situation and realize what you know enough to disagree with or agree with. I'm not seeing that many of you on this side of things do. Hail Hitler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Tulane,I completely agree with you. I don't really have a problem with "their" line of thinking. It's just hard to believe that "they" are so certain that whatever Williams and Blache are saying is gospel! I'm VERY sceptical because things just don't add up. That doesn't make any of us "bad fans." More like, curious fans. I wish for nothing more than the Skins to make the playoffs every year, and heck, even the Bowl someday! I just hate controversy, and every time I see my team lose a game in which our defense allows 21 points and yet don't at least put every player on the field who COULD make a difference, to ME .. yeah, there's a controversy! That doesn't make me a "bad" fan! This is what I'm talking about TSF. What Williams and Blache are saying doesn't add up. This is exactly what bad fans think. It adds up PERFECTLY. It added up with Lewis too, but he wasn't strong enough to keep fighting to make it better. Lavar COULD make a difference. Both positive AND negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 No, it doesn't at all! Keep it up. Don't let guys like Art make you feel bad for disagreeing with the coaches that you root for every week either. No, but, DO feel bad for calling honest, truthful men liars as you have here. That's the best way to root for them. Deny the validity of their word when you have no reason to do so. That's a great fan example you set TSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Just as an aside: Ask bears fans about their feelings on Blache. You'll get some interesting answers. Again, no one is perfect, and the fans may be wrong or they may be dead right or there may be a mixture of truth and false perception. And again, for all the stuff about what's going wrong in practice (he's improving) would seem to me he'd get snaps. At bare minimum, one would think a guy who started for you the year before into the reg season, would get a SNAP here or there. By reducing his playing time even more, you may VERY WELL be hurting the team in that ONE crucial play where his on-field presence makes a difference. If he's not disciplined enough to play the full game, fine. But to not get a single snap when everyone but Raymer and Ramsey did? Come on. I'm not buying that. As for Art: One need not believe a coach is being a liar. Though, one would say that parsing words and using language politic, is the 'spirit' of being a liar, if not the letter. And not now, of course, but earlier this year and with other issues. Hell, you might as well call Mark a liar because he's said the injury or other issues weren't the reason he played poorly last year. Because he's denied it. One can believe that a coach is WRONG or that they are being EXTREME or possessing a questionable perspective without believing they are necessarily liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1SKINSFAN1 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 If Lavar Is In There We Would Have Seen A Sack Period, Dont Know Whats Really GOing On But Its Gotta Be Huge. Maybe Lavar Nailed Gregs Wife Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Again, TSF, no, you're not allowed to disagree with coaches.You need to understand what this means. If Gregg Williams says Lavar Arrington is making mistakes in practice and has to play better in practice to play you can't disagree. You have no contrary opinion. There IS no contrary opinion. It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. It's a matter of fact and fact can't be countered by an opinion. There are areas you can disagree with the coaches on. Like, I think going shotgun on third and 1 is a bad idea. I thought we should have run a couple of times there on that last drive before we did. These are areas of opinion that you can certainly express different thoughts. What you can't do is disagree that Williams' actions aren't actually for the obvious reasons they are. And you can't disagree and offer an opinion that no, despite what Williams says, Lavar is doing great at practice. You need to process the facts of this situation and realize what you know enough to disagree with or agree with. I'm not seeing that many of you on this side of things do. What YOU can't do is verify that what Williams says is true! Likewise, I can't prove that it isn't. What I CAN do however is question whether Holdman is a better choice than LA. Evidence suggests that he is NOT! And we gave up 21 today, and Holdman is directly responsible for 6 of them. And we had ZERO turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaDRoc Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 There were points in the game when I wanted Lavar in there. Just because I believe that he could make big plays and force some TO's. I still trust Gregg Williams though. We need more TO's!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 No, but, DO feel bad for calling honest, truthful men liars as you have here. That's the best way to root for them. Deny the validity of their word when you have no reason to do so. That's a great fan example you set TSF. So what we have learned in these last two pages is that, because he has 21,000+ posts and spends most of his waking hours here, Art is the only TRUE fan and the rest of us suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 What YOU can't do is verify that what Williams says is true! Likewise, I can't prove that it isn't. What I CAN do however is question whether Holdman is a better choice than LA. Evidence suggests that he is NOT! And we gave up 21 today, and Holdman is directly responsible for 6 of them. And we had ZERO turnovers. Actually, yes, I can verify what he's saying is true. I have, in fact. And, repeated comments from players from multiple teams, former Redskins, former coaches of the Redskins and CURRENT coaches of the Redskins all say the same thing about Lavar. Talented but undisciplined and mistake-prone. Just because you've turned a blind eye doesn't mean others have. And more, I care about Lavar enough to want him to succeed. I do not simply want him playing for the sake of playing when those who have to believe in him do not believe he's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 So what we have learned in these last two pages is that, because he has 21,000+ posts and spends most of his waking hours here, Art is the only TRUE fan and the rest of us suck! No, not the rest of you. Just you and those exactly like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The number on that jersey was #57 not #56. LaVar's one play was when he flushed Plummer out of the pocket and forced an errant throw. Unless, of course that number was #58. My mistake...I was told it was Lavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Actually, yes, I can verify what he's saying is true. I have, in fact. And, repeated comments from players from multiple teams, former Redskins, former coaches of the Redskins and CURRENT coaches of the Redskins all say the same thing about Lavar. Talented but undisciplined and mistake-prone. Just because you've turned a blind eye doesn't mean others have. And more, I care about Lavar enough to want him to succeed. I do not simply want him playing for the sake of playing when those who have to believe in him do not believe he's ready. Fine. But you also, if you're going to believe what you do, have to believe that Holdman is a stellar LB who has, since May, fully digested "the system" moreso than LA has in two years. I find that I would have to be incredibly gullible to believe that without some questioning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Fine. But you also if you're going to believe what you do, believe that Holdman is a stellar LB who has, since May, fully digested "the system" moreso than LA has in two years. I find that I would have to be incredibly gullible to believe that without some questioning! Ummm, Holdman has played for Blache and Lindsay before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 No, not the rest of you. Just you and those exactly like you. No. Just anyone who disagrees with you. Are you personal friends and family ever allowed to disagree with you either, or do you just have them beheaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Fine. But you also if you're going to believe what you do, believe that Holdman is a stellar LB who has, since May, fully digested "the system" moreso than LA has in two years. I find that I would have to be incredibly gullible to believe that without some questioning! I don't believe Holdman is a "stellar" linebacker. He's a good pro who's done some nice things in the league. Since May he has fully digested the things he's tasked with doing more completely than Arrington has in two years. As surprising as that is to you, it's well known to the team itself. As Marcus Washington said on Thursday to me, Lavar apparently missed some things due to the leg injury so he's not picked up the defense as quickly. Where Holdman has practiced since May, Lavar hasn't done much field work until into August. This apparently is why Washington feels Arrington doesn't know the system as well as you'd expect he would. I hope this is the case as the alternative is Lavar has some sort of learning disorder that will always limit him. I hope it's just that he was rehabbing and not taking physical reps when so much new stuff was going in. Washington needs to be right on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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