spanishomelette Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=7780 by matty dread -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, I let myself dwell on this whole thing for a few hours before making a post. Here's my take. First let me preface this by saying I like Ramsey and I was really hoping for him to be the man this season. I think he's a talented QB and still has a bright future in this league. The only thing I ask is that you clear your mind for a moment and think about this objectively. I know as fans we get very emotional and we sometimes get attached to players, whether they're good players or not. But in the end, all that matters is winning football games, and that's what Coach Gibbs is trying to do here. He's not trying to play games, he's not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, he's trying to win games, period, end of discussion. Ok, here's my view on the change. This idea that Ramsey didn't have a fair shot this year is false. He had the commitment of the staff since the 2004 season ended. He received the majority of the offseason work as the starter, and that carried over into training camp where he took 90% of the snaps in practice. He was given 4 preseason games to stake his claim as the starter. Despite some very shaky performances, Gibbs didn't waver, he stuck with Ramsey when he very easily could have slipped Brunell in there for a start or two. Can anyone honestly say that based on what we saw from Ramsey this preseason, that he earned the starting job. Before you answer, just think about that a moment. Did he really earn the starting job? If you say yes, please explain what he did this preseason to earn the job. I'd love to hear it. He threw 4 INTs against 2 TDs in the preseason with a QB rating of 65, and the INTs he threw were the kind of INTs that made you say "Huh? What was he thinking?" Meanwhile, Brunell's play in the preseason was efficient and turnover free with a QB rating just over 85. Yes it was against backups, but there was a definite improvement in his game, that can't be denied. His trademark accuracy was back, his passes showed zip, he was mobile and moving around in the pocket, and in general he seemed to have a much better feel and control of this offense. Ramsey on the other hand never looked settled or in control. Perhaps in the end, the biggest mistake Gibbs made was sticking by Ramsey too long this preseason. Or perhaps it goes back further than that, he probably should have opened up the QB competition heading into training camp and let the best man win. The thing that's concerned me about Ramsey is he's actually looked worse so far this year than he did at the end of last year. Perhaps now we can see why Gibbs ran such a scaled back offense last year with him in there. Perhaps that's why all we saw Ramsey throw were short dink and dunks, maybe that's all he could handle. Fast forward to this year, Gibbs opened up the playbook and look what's happened. Ramsey has the happy feet again, he's holding on to the ball too long, he's indecisive, he's throwing INTs and coughing the ball up when hit. Those are signs of a QB who's not comfortable and doesn't have a firm grip on the offense. Again, try to take the emotion out of this. Ramsey is still a work in progress, let's face it. Will he improve with time, yeah maybe he will. But after what happened last year, I don't think Gibbs is willing to make the same mistake of sticking with a struggling QB too long. This team has the elements to be a playoff team this year. Portis looks poised for a big year, and Betts adds a great 1-2 punch to the running attack. The offensive line is much improved over a year ago. We have speed and playmaking ability at the WR position. And needless to say the defense is lights out as expected. The missing element? Stability and efficiency at the QB position, something that Ramsey can't give us right now. You might say, but what did Ramsey do yesterday to lose the job? He shouldn't lose the job due to injury. I answer with, so we should just ignore the 2 fumbles and 1 INT in 3 series worth of work? That sure didn't help his case, that's for sure. I'll say it again, I like Ramsey, I really do. I think he's got a good future in this league, but right now Brunell appears to be the better option at QB. Put last year out of your mind with Brunell and just focus on what we've seen from him in 2005. He's played well and gives us the best chance to win right now. I give Gibbs credit for having the guts to make a very difficult decision, but in the end could prove to be a very smart one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGJOE44 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Could not of said this any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 44 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I agree, I think Gibbs has the team in mind. I feel rotten about the change cause I got attached to Ramsey,and now its not like he is just going to sit. His days here are numbered after this move. One thing that my shakes my faith in Gibb's decision making is his call to make Rasmsey the starter last year? I agreed with that decision, and now its blown up in our face .... that just makes this decision now to make Brunell the starter a little more harder to believe in. Basically, it would set my mind at ease if we had a little more of an explanation? Why so quickly with the change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoSkins Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Right now Brunell appears to be the better option at QB. Lets hope. Well written article. Most people agree that based on on-field performance (and disregarding last year), Brunell has looked better. The manner of which Gibbs yanked the carpet out fom under Ramsey is the problem. Ramsey's injury was the moment of opportunity Gibbs was looking for. I do agree that starting Brunell gives the Skins the best opportunity to win this season, however, I don't agree with the manner of which he got the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gw21502 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I agree, I think Gibbs has the team in mind. I feel rotten about the change cause I got attached to Ramsey,and now its not like he is just going to sit. His days here are numbered after this move. One thing that my shakes my faith in Gibb's decision making is his call to make Rasmsey the starter last year? I agreed with that decision, and now its blown up in our face .... that just makes this decision now to make Brunell the starter a little more harder to believe in. Basically, it would set my mind at ease if we had a little more of an explanation? Why so quickly with the change? My only concern is this........what if Brunnell throws 4 int's and has 2 fumbles and we lose to the Cowboys? Then what? Will he be patient with Brunnell or will he put Ramsey back in? I don't think Patrick is getting a fair shake, period. 3 offensive series? It's pathetic. I've lost a ton of respect for Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 As a Patrick Ramsey supporter I have to say that was very well written. I guess people can differ on opinions without all the name calling and personal shots ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 personally, I think it all comes down to turnovers, JG football stresses no TO's. That's got to be the reason. I like PR more than MB, I really do, but I'll admit that the int's scare the heck outta me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrredskin Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I think that we all see it now.... whether we want to or not.... Ramsey’s days here are numbered. I have been a huge Ramsey apologist but deep down in places I don't like to go I know that this is the right move.... (sigh). Time to strap it up and put on the game face for Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Nicely said. This team has an unbelievable defense, a superb running game (Portis and Betts are a great tandem), fleet WRs that get open, a strong O-Line that will just get better, special teams that are playing great, and some of the best coaching minds in the history of the NFL. All it needs now is a good manager at QB. Folks misunderstand the term "managing the QB position" when it's used. They get images of the 2000 Ravens offense and Trent Dilfer just holding on and trying to score 10 points cause the Ravens 'D' will get thier own TD and hold the other team to 7. A good manager, whether on the football field or in business, is someone who is bright, efficent, organized, a leader, and keeps things moving. If there is a glitch or a mistake, that person knows how to figure things out and overcome it. That is what Brunell gives Coach Gibbs right now. Someone who won't make the drive-killing mistakes. No, he won't be Peyton Manning and throw 50 TDs, but he doesn't have to be. Brunell, along with Portis, Betts, Cooley, Moss, Patten, etc. will keep this offense moving without the mistakes. That's not to say Brunell won't throw the occasional int. or even fumble the ball. All QBs do. But nowhere near the frustrating level that Ramsey does. Ramsey can be a good QB in this league. But this team needs, at least, a STABLE hand guiding at at QB right now. Things are just too wild and wooly when Ramsey is in there. It just seems out-of-control. It needs a good manager. It needs Brunell's more steady hand. And I think it will be more proficent than people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=7780 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I give Gibbs credit for having the guts to make a very difficult decision, but in the end could prove to be a very smart one. :applause: :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkowi Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 As I said in another thread. My heart is not happy, but my head agrees. I think thats the important point this article makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Complete Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 My heart is not happy, but my head agrees. I think thats the important point this article makes. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I don't care how well written it is, he's still wrong. Three series is not "giving Ramsey a fair chance." Especially since he only made one bad pass in those 3 series. If someone can honestly say Ramsey got a fair shake, when Brunell should've been benched in Week 4, yet lasted to Week 9. That person is simply a homer who will ALWAYS change their position and agree with whatever Joe Gibbs says, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Durel" Green Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 "A good manager, whether on the football field or in business, is someone who is bright, efficent, organized, a leader, and keeps things moving. If there is a glitch or a mistake, that person knows how to figure things out and overcome it." You really hit the nail on the head. Despite having the reputation of being a very bright guy coming out of college and otherwise, on the field, Ramsey has always seemed to be severly lacking in football smarts, game management, etc (or, for those Madden players, the old "awareness" rating.) In the preseason and admittedly short time he was in the game Sunday, he showed more of the same. That would seem to be the attribute that differentiates Brunell from Ramsey the most at this point in time. Hopefully Brunnel can show his preseason was not a fluke and stay injury free. I feel a lot more confident with him heading into Monday night in Dallas then I would have with Ramsey, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 As a Patrick Ramsey supporter I have to say that was very well written. I guess people can differ on opinions without all the name calling and personal shots ... You ass.... :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I don't care how well written it is, he's still wrong. Three series is not "giving Ramsey a fair chance." Especially since he only made one bad pass in those 3 series. You should read the article. It's pretty good. It talks about how Ramsey had all off-season and pre-season to show he could not turn the ball over. Pretty good point, eh? If someone can honestly say Ramsey got a fair shake, when Brunell should've been benched in Week 4, yet lasted to Week 9. That person is simply a homer who will ALWAYS change their position and agree with whatever Joe Gibbs says, period. Why do you think Ramsey didn't come in earlier? Here's a novel thought--he was turning the ball over way too much then as well. The only reason the Skins went with Ramsey last season was that it was obvious that Brunell, for injuries or whatever reason, simply couldn't get anything moving. The Redskins suffered through Ramsey's turnovers because they didn't have much of a choice if they wanted to move the ball at all. They have a choice now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Great job Omelette ... Brunell's limitations will quickly come to the surface and then the Jason Campbell era will begin. Its all so nice and tidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissarmy47 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Our offense needs the deep ball. We went out and got fast receivers just for that purpose - to get the Defenses to respect that and not crowd the line so we can run a little. Brunell cannot throw the deep ball. In the preseason I saw Ramsey complete the deep ball. I saw big plays with Ramsey. We're just repeating last year now. 70 yards passing in 3 quarters is not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sableholic Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Lets hope. Well written article. Most people agree that based on on-field performance (and disregarding last year), Brunell has looked better. The manner of which Gibbs yanked the carpet out fom under Ramsey is the problem. Ramsey's injury was the moment of opportunity Gibbs was looking for. I do agree that starting Brunell gives the Skins the best opportunity to win this season, however, I don't agree with the manner of which he got the job. exactly, there is the problem. The manner it was done. not the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercules Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Remember when Ramsey was getting pummeled in the Spurrier offense? Eventually he got injured and Hasselbeck came in. Suddenly, the offense wasn't giving up as many sacks. All along I thought it was simply Spurrier's hair-brained offensive schemes that got Ramsey killed, but why didn't it get Hasselbeck killed? Because unlike Ramsey, he had some pocket presence. I really wanted Ramsey to succeed and be the team's future QB. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown much improvement since his rookie season. First quarter of the season and he's getting clobbered like he's still in the Spurrier offense. Brunell may not have the strongest arm, but he can get out of trouble in the pocket and still make a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Durel" Green Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Brunell cannot throw the deep ball. In the preseason I saw Ramsey complete the deep ball. I saw big plays with Ramsey. When? I remember Ramsey displaying his usual inaccuracy on the deep stuff. He does a much better job with the 20-30 yards ropes, where he can just wing it as hard as possible directly at his receiver, rather than the deep routes, where some touch/placement/arc on the ball is needed. The nice throws Ramsey did make on Sunday were those intermediate ropes. I think Brunell actually showed much more on the deep sideline routes in the preseason than Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown 43 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 My only concern is this........what if Brunnell throws 4 int's and has 2 fumbles and we lose to the Cowboys? Then what? Will he be patient with Brunnell or will he put Ramsey back in? I don't think Patrick is getting a fair shake, period. 3 offensive series? It's pathetic. I've lost a ton of respect for Gibbs. That's the whole point here, Brunnell probably won't turn the ball over that many times. Ramsey probably would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Of course, this all hinges on Brunell actually being better than last year. Sure, he looked good against backups, but I'm still not sure I trust that, and he didnt look very good against Chicago. If Brunell is just as bad as last year, we will suck again, and that scares me as much as Ramsey does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy City Skins fan Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I actually hope teams underestimate Brunell's arm this year. On the pass interference called back interception to Vasher on Sunday if Moss (I believe it was Moss) wasn't held as he was cutting in on the route, he would have been right there where the ball would have been (at least it would have been a jump ball between Vasher and Moss). That would have been a very accurate deep pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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