bulldog Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 a blurb indicating what we were trying to say all along, namely, that Westbrook and Hardy are "IFS" for the Cowboys in 2002 because of recovery from serious injury problems: Cowboys | Westbrook Limited - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) 10:28 PT: According to the Dallas Morning News, Dallas Cowboys CB Bryant Westbrook (Achilles’) was limited during Tuesday’s practice and wasn’t able to make it through the entire workout. Head coach Dave Campo said the team will get enough time in training camp to get a proper judgment on him. Is the last line from Campo merely wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 It may or may not be wishful thinking, but it certainly isn't a ringing endorsement. Usually you get the "We're just being safe - he'll be fine for camp" line. That one sounded pretty doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Didn't you hear? this is what they were planning all alone. I guess Roy Williams will be helping Westbrook double his guy all season. What a waste of a good rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goatroper Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Don't get your hopes up too soon, guys. Here is the DMN blurb referenced in this thread: Cornerback Bryant Westbrook, who started only three games with Detroit last season while recovering from an Achilles' tendon injury, was limited in his work and did not go through the entire practice. Coach Dave Campo said training camp will give the club enough time to make a proper judgment on Westbrook. Notice it says "did not go through the entire practice" not that he was "not able to" finish the practice. Nowhere in the DMN story does it say or indicate that Westbrook was "hobbled" during the workout. Might be handy for you to know that the Cowboys trainer who handles player rehab is very conservative about what the players can and cannot do at different phases of their rehab. He is strict about exactly what they do and how they do it. Your breathless glee may be unfounded. The man is rehabbing and the training staff is restricting what he does. Sorry to splash cold facts on your injured-Cowboy fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I'm not talking smack about other teams injuries considering we have been blessed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 And besides. I want them to be totally healthy and completely ready so that when we hang that 50 spot on them they won't have d1ck to say about it except that they got their a$$es handed to them by a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 To be fair, Goat, it is not our hopes here that sway so precariously in the balance. It is your hope and the hopes of Cowboy fans, is it not? Cowboy fans are the ones who are hopeful Westbrook can actually recover well enough from injury to contribute anything to the roster. When you sign players with an injury history, this is the bargain you strike. You signed a player with an injury history and until he overcomes that history and proves himself healthy and a regular contributor, it isn't Redskin fans who are hoping he gets hurt. We know he's hurt. It's Cowboy fans that have to hope he gets healthy, and, clearly, he's not yet though you have hope he may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by bulldog a blurb indicating what we were trying to say all along, namely, that Westbrook and Hardy are "IFS" for the Cowboys in 2002 because of recovery from serious injury problems: Cowboys | Westbrook Limited - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) 10:28 PT: According to the Dallas Morning News, Dallas Cowboys CB Bryant Westbrook (Achilles’) was limited during Tuesday’s practice and wasn’t able to make it through the entire workout. Head coach Dave Campo said the team will get enough time in training camp to get a proper judgment on him. Is the last line from Campo merely wishful thinking? KFFL as usual gets second hand information. Here is better indication of how Westbrook, Glover and Hardy are fairing in mini-camp, don't get too excited!!!! http://cowboys.theinsiders.com/2/53343.html * Kevin Hardy is starting to show significant improvement after rumors circulated last month that he may not be ready for training camp. "Kevin Hardy looked good today. He's pretty close to 100% I think," said Dave Campo. "He looked real good in a couple of those drills." * And what about Bryant Westbrook, how is he looking? "I think he's fine out there right now. I think we'll find out alot during the preseason games where Bryant is," said Campo. Westbrook left mini-camp early this afternoon, but there was no serious injury of any kind. http://www.dallascowboys.com/cgi-bin/Cowboys/cowboys2/news.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1104018332.1026329186@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadceifeeiklbedchecjcfe.0&art=20491 Cramp Preview The Cowboys got their first dose of what training camp usually feels like Tuesday in the first day of a three-day quarterback school to be followed by a three-day mini-camp. Temperatures ranged in the mid-90s, but the suffocating humidity had the heat index over 105 degrees at one point. That should explain why several players went down with leg cramps, including cornerbacks Bryant Westbrook, Derek Ross, Jason Bell and Pete Hunter. The Cowboys, of course, are trying to limit the heat-related injuries this summer, moving the majority of their training camp practices indoors to the Alamodome in San Antonio. The Cowboys, who have practiced in Wichita Falls, Texas, for the last four years, expect to practice on an outdoor field for most of the morning practices this year, and then move inside for the afternoon sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Yes, I agree this is about as relevant as Spurrier's decision to tell his QBs the defense's coverages in one May practice session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goatroper Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Art, To be sure, if Mister Jones signs a player coming off a serious injury, we all hope he will recover and play well for us. We'll see how well Jones, the coaching staff and the medical staff evaluated the pro's and con's on the Westbrook and Hardy signings. Jones is an old wildcat driller. Sometimes his gambles pay off; sometimes they come a cropper. We'll see. Not really our hopes hanging precariously in the balance, however. Our prospects at CB are not looking too bad even if Westbrook is not 100 percent at the start of the season. Ditto Hardy at LB. (This is an opinion; you can probably bring in a raft of expert info to prove how stupid I am for believing it. Don't bother. My answer is: Wait for the games. We'll see who is right soon enough.) But this thread was not started by a hopeful Cowboy fan. Rather it was started by a breathlessly gleeful Skins fan bragging about how he was right all along about Westbrook being all broke down. Hahaha. Problem with that was he had his facts twisted ever so slightly. I just fixed that for those who might be more interested in what is actually happening than in what they hope is happening. Thanks again for your keen interest in Cowboy football. We always enjoy your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Henry Yes, I agree this is about as relevant as Spurrier's decision to tell his QBs the defense's coverages in one May practice session. Yep, I agree. it is the equivalent of Bruce Coslet telling Kevin Hardy which way the run play or what blocking schemes are so he can look good. bunch of nonsense. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Who wants to beat a team only to have them say "well, we were hurt so it really isn't the same?" nobody! if we were like that, we could scratch all of 2000 to being the most injured team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 you got to understand... after seven years of it... just the name Westbrook... doesn't really matter which one just:shootinth Add in Westbrook and an injury and now you're really rubbing some sore spots. If Jones is playing a hunch, then it's a dangerous one. After all, the two players who have gained the Cowboys much of their kudos are not the players you want to be highest risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Goat, Perhaps you didn't read the start of this thread. The total input by Bulldog was, "Is the last line from Campo merely wishful thinking?" The rest was a quote from a KFFL piece. That question hardly denotes breathless glee. As a rule, we have questioned the intelligence of paying so much to injured players. Hell, Hardy's actual contract is 5-years at $23 million which by comparison makes Trotter seem a huge bargain. Obviously neither will reach the end of the contract as it's written, but, it is nonetheless a curious difference in methods here. You have made three major free agent signings and two of them have recent injury problems that lend serious questions as to their present ability and future ability to come back. When an article suggests one of those players was held back from completing a practice, it is not overly meaningful, but, it is further validation of the question at hand. How will recently injured players fare and if they can't complete light work in passing camps, how will they do with heavier work in full pads during training camp, which is where Campo suggests he'll see enough of Westbrook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Just wondering- are Hardy and Westbrook healthy enough to run 3-legged races together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallasfan Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Westbrook as well as Ross, Bell, and Hunter were all limited due to leg cramps that were caused by the heat. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Art Goat, Perhaps you didn't read the start of this thread. The total input by Bulldog was, "Is the last line from Campo merely wishful thinking?" The rest was a quote from a KFFL piece. That question hardly denotes breathless glee. As a rule, we have questioned the intelligence of paying so much to injured players. Hell, Hardy's actual contract is 5-years at $23 million which by comparison makes Trotter seem a huge bargain. Obviously neither will reach the end of the contract as it's written, but, it is nonetheless a curious difference in methods here. You have made three major free agent signings and two of them have recent injury problems that lend serious questions as to their present ability and future ability to come back. When an article suggests one of those players was held back from completing a practice, it is not overly meaningful, but, it is further validation of the question at hand. How will recently injured players fare and if they can't complete light work in passing camps, how will they do with heavier work in full pads during training camp, which is where Campo suggests he'll see enough of Westbrook. Actually ART, You are quiet wrong in reference to Kevin Hardy being payed so much money. Dallas signed Kevin Hardy to a one (1) year deal , with the option to resign if he plays at a ProBowl level and his knee holds up. Hardy will not impact the Cowboys cap next year should Dallas decide not to pick up the option. here is link: http://www.insidecowboys.com/1998/2002/cowboys/hardy0415.html Hardy liked the ideas so much that he was willing to sign a one-year deal with an option for four more that's based mostly on whether his surgically repaired right knee is strong enough for him to return to Pro Bowl form. The deal, which will count about $1.5 million toward the salary cap this season, was reached late Saturday and announced at a news conference Sunday. Your facts appear to out of whack. kevin hardy is preety much auditioning for the Cowboys this season. if he does well we own him, should he fail to recover we can cut ties and suffer no loss other than a $1.5 million cap hit this season. Correction Everyone: I am sorry. Kevin Hardy will impact the cap next year should he to ber resigned. Cowboys | More Info On Hardy - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) April 14, 2002 18:57:07 PT Dallas Cowboys.com reports LB Kevin Hardy received a $1 million base salary for 2002 as part of his deal with the team. He also received a $1.5 million signing bous. He will count just $1.3 million against the Cowboys salary cap since the four-year option allows the Cowboys to prorate the signing bonus evenly over five years. Picking up the four-year option next year will cost the Cowboys just more than $5 million. If the Cowboys decide not to pick up the option, Hardy would cost them $1.2 million on next year's cap for the accelerated signing bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Man, you're using the same site that told us Dallas wanted Jammer more than anyone else. what up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford Man, you're using the same site that told us Dallas wanted Jammer more than anyone else. what up? yep, the same site that stated Jerry's jet was in the AIR on it's way to Oklahoma when Roy Williams and Quentin Jammer both fell to the 5th spot in the draft. whoop dy doo:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 i'm beginning to think our problems are not only limitted to the middle east! perhaps there is some "cleaning up" to be done in Texas as well!!!! idle humor folks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford Man, you're using the same site that told us Dallas wanted Jammer more than anyone else. what up? Correction Bufford: My bad Kevin Hardy will impact the cap next year. Cowboys | More Info On Hardy - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) April 14, 2002 18:57:07 PT Dallas Cowboys.com reports LB Kevin Hardy received a $1 million base salary for 2002 as part of his deal with the team. He also received a $1.5 million signing bous. He will count just $1.3 million against the Cowboys salary cap since the four-year option allows the Cowboys to prorate the signing bonus evenly over five years. Picking up the four-year option next year will cost the Cowboys just more than $5 million. If the Cowboys decide not to pick up the option, Hardy would cost them $1.2 million on next year's cap for the accelerated signing bonus. But in no way shape or form is this contract comparable to Jeremiah Trotter's as suggested by smARTness. Jeremiah got a $5million SB, whilst Hardy got $1.5 million both over 5 years. Go figure!!!. You guys better hope Trotter does not come up lame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Its all good. Just don't pick and choose what they report is legit or not. have a nice evening cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goatroper Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Art, Here is the part you missed: a blurb indicating what we were trying to say all along, namely, that Westbrook and Hardy are "IFS" for the Cowboys in 2002 because of recovery from serious injury problems: Sounds like "told you so" from here. Anytime you sign a player with an injury, there are "IF's" involved. Who said otherwise? As for your questioning Jerry Jones intelligence, you have to stand in a long line for that. Be advised there are a bunch of Cowboys fans queued up ahead of you. (And anyone who roots for a team run by Daniel Snyder will have to take a high number.) As for the rest of your post, I will simply refer you to my previous post and offer to answer any questions you may have about it. Thanks for your keen interest in Cowboy football. We always enjoy your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 No way Trotter is nearly as injury-prone as Hardy or Westbrook. Whenever a chronically injured player gets an injury like this, it has deeper meaning. What it means is: "My body is breaking down further and I will eventually get a more serious injury, and in the process screwing the team who signed me." By the sound of it, this will haunt Westbrook all season, along with numerous other injuries. Them's the ropes. Whenever an injury isn't serious, KFFL says "He was taken out of practice as a precautionary measure." There was no precautionary in this. He was UNABLE to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 You know, I fancy that I know a little about the salary cap, but can someone explain how these two reports add up? Cowboys | More on Hardy Deal - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) April 15, 2002 17:20:07 PT According to ESPN's John Clayton, the deal LB Kevin Hardy signed with the Dallas Cowboys can be looked at in one of two ways. It's either a one-year, $2.5 million deal or a five-year, $23 million deal. If the Cowboys like what they see this year, they can go with the extra four-year option in his deal and pay him like a top linebacker in the league. AND Cowboys | More Info On Hardy - from KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com) April 14, 2002 18:57:07 PT Dallas Cowboys.com reports LB Kevin Hardy received a $1 million base salary for 2002 as part of his deal with the team. He also received a $1.5 million signing bous. He will count just $1.3 million against the Cowboys salary cap since the four-year option allows the Cowboys to prorate the signing bonus evenly over five years. Picking up the four-year option next year will cost the Cowboys just more than $5 million. If the Cowboys decide not to pick up the option, Hardy would cost them $1.2 million on next year's cap for the accelerated signing bonus. Now, one report says its a 23 mil total contract with a SB of 1.5 mil. The other says it is a 7.5 mil contract (prorated signing bonus in year 1 of 300k + 1 mil salary in year 1 + 1.2 prorated signing bonus + the just more than 5 mil that the lower quote totals). Somehow, I just cant get the difference between 23 mil and 7.5 mil out of my head. UNLESS THEY MEAN and average of 5 MIL PER YEAR for the remaining 4 years, most of which is not gaurenteed. Its that "Picking up the four-year option next year will cost the Cowboys just more than $5 million" quote that is a little misleading. They do mean each year right? Now, granted this is different from the Trotter deal, of which there is 5.5 mil guarenteed more in, but one would think that you would gaurentee more money for someone who hasn't had a career ending type of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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