thebluefood

Read this yesterday - fascinating read. Really hope U.S. Soccer can get its **** together.

Oh, well then, we're gonna need to find new names for some awards: -The Cy Young Award -The Conn Smythe Trophy -The Georges Vezina Trophy -The Jack Adams Trophy They're named after pre-expansion players and coaches so how great could they be? Hell, Cy Young played half of his career before the American League even existed and Vezina had to stand up throughout the entire game until he was 7 years into his career with Montreal. And never mind the reserve clause, the wretched conditions under which professional players in all sports played, little to no actual strength and conditioning facilities or techniques, a torrent of unchecked ethnic slurs from the grandstands, or running the very real risk of literally dying while competing (or a life threatening injury with no real hope of getting better because, once again, strength and conditioning wasn't a thing). Yes, there are challenges today that yesterday's players didn't have to worry about but there were challenges then that would be unthinkable today, even for folks in the minor leagues of their respective sports. A lot of those players, especially Walter Johnson, saw to it that players didn't have to deal with the things they dealt with. That's why player's unions exist. That's why strength and condition methods have evolved the way they have. That's why they have those massive salaries and there's more teams. As great as the likes of Max Scherzer are, I don't know if they could take on the demand of a Walter Johnson. Scherzer's had 9 complete games total throughout his career thus far (about 10 and a half seasons). By the end of his 10th season, Johnson had more than 300. You don't think that takes a toll on your body, regardless who you're facing? Sports, especially at the top level, have been and always will be difficult - just for different reasons. That's why it's hard to compare eras but why you don't completely toss aside the careers of people who played before you were born.

And it's my impression we're still talking about -Their performance in D.C. specifically -Their influence on their respective teams and sports in their own era and beyond -Their impact on the area's sports landscape It is undeniable that Baugh and Johnson have high marks across the board. Apart from playing in pre-integration eras, I don't know why there are some so enthusiastic to rule out the likes of Baugh and Johnson. They couldn't help being born when they were and playing their respective sports when they did. They were not only great but they helped shape their respective games and made them what they are today. There may not be a West Coast Offense or even an NFL without Buagh and Flaherty. My only big complaint against them is that they could have used their status to promote expanding opportunities beyond white players (in U.S. and in Latin America), especially Walter Johnson. He had already been a vocal critic of the Reserve Clause generations before it was done away - why not use that same platform to fight for integration? Yes, we're all products of our time but we're often presented with opportunities to move beyond our time and place. Hell, Johnson played against Negro Leaguers and played in Washington, D.C. to adoring black fans (my grandfather, according to my dad, was a big Walter Johnson fan growing up). He knew what was up (which is possibly why he wasn't a greater advocate for integration - didn't need any more competition for his job, especially toward the end of his career). All that to say: there's good reasons for critiquing players from pre-integration eras but are we absolutely sure writing off their careers completely is one of them? Sports got to where it is today somehow - it didn't just become this overnight. This has been in development long, long before any of us where alive.

Best post of the thread by far.

When Franklin Graham says you've gone too far, holy **** - you have gone waaaaaaaaaay too far.

Thanks! The Boundary Stones blog is really cool - I suggest following it.

You know, I've always admired John Brown. Though he, ultimately, wasn't successful in his Harper's Ferry raid, I admired him for being so moved to action that he was willing to die for it and for a righteous cause. But it wasn't until recently that I started to understand his rage - the kind of rage you feel for other people's struggles. Sympathetic, of course but this rage just keeps building. For the record - especially for whatever CIA snitch is monitoring me this week - I am not planning a John Brown-esque raid to free these children and reunite them with their parents but my God I've never wanted to do something more.

Thanks for the link and for the bump, @Dan T.. I actually wanted to bump it with this interesting map I found via WETA's website. https://blogs.weta.org/boundarystones/metromap/?src=carousel See how much you can overlap some of the famous restaurants with the newly named Metro stops.

If hockey - with its considerable, international reach - doesn't sit at the adult table, what does? As far as sheer numbers are concerned, sports like cricket, rugby, and especially soccer are way more relevant than any of the "Big 4." The Super Bowl ain't **** compared to the FIFA or ICC World Cups if we're talking about sheer numbers of people who give a **** about it. I think Ovechkin's influence on the local sports landscape is well established (he's the biggest reason why I went from knowing nothing about the sport to being a fan) but even in the sports world I still contend Ovechkin is number one. Who'd be a bigger name than him across the borders or overseas? Any member of the 'Skins? You're hard pressed to find casual football fans in the States who could name any of the Posse or the Hogs or most of the team's current players. Strasburg, Harper, and Wall probably have more international appeal than any of them since baseball and basketball have a broader reach than football ever will. Honestly - comparing hockey to wrestling or rowing or lacrosse. Did you see the crowds downtown for the Stanley Cup Final matches? Go ahead and try to do that next time the Chesapeake Bayhawks are in contention for a Steinfeld Cup. Ovehckin is, undoubtedly, #1. I say that as a hardcore baseball fan and "Nats First" D.C. Sports fan. It's Ovie and it ain't even close. Agreed on all counts but bolded the most relevant bit. I really wish we'd stop calling the Super Bowl Champion the "World Champion." Who are we kidding here? At least Major League Baseball and the NBA have some presence outside of the continental United States. The NHL has the self-awareness to call the Caps the "Stanley Cup Champions" and they have way more claim to the title "World Champion" than any of the other "Big 4" leagues combined.

Unfortunately, the rest of his team is so confident in his abilities they don't even give him run support. He's had to do it himself recently. He's a strikeout artist for sure and we haven't had one of those in D.C. since -

Not to mention Green wasn't a player who carried a team on his back the way Ovi, Baugh, and Johnson had in their respective sports and teams. I don't know if a cornerback, no matter how good they are, can do that. In football, only a quarterback can (and the keyword there is can) conceivably do that. The Gibbs I era had great players too be sure but they were a team. The X factors on that team were on the sidelines and the FO in Gibbs and Bethard (respectively). And yes, @Spaceman Spiff - Scherzer could very well be in this conversation, especially if the Nats actually manage to get it together and win a championship this year. He is, far and away, the best player on the team right now and his stellar W/L record doesn't even do him service (though W/L records for baseball pitchers are pretty iffy metrics to begin with). He's already right there with Sonny Jurgensen and Elvin Hayes as the town's best free agent acquisition. He leads them to the pennant and especially a World Series championship, he's front and center in the conversation.

To say a word for Baugh: he was drafted in 1937 because the 'Skins were moving from Boston and needed someone to put asses in the seats and get them over the championship hump. He did both in spades. In an era when the NFL was just barely starting to gain relevancy and respectability, he converted the city and the surrounding states to professional football in one season. Mind you, the region's only other choice was a woeful Senators team whose glory years were firmly behind them but without Sammy Baugh playing the kind of football the 'Skins played, I don't know if professional football makes it in D.C. - at least, not in the way it did. There had been a Washington based NFL team about 13 years earlier that fizzled out. Who's to say the 'Skins would have been any different without Baugh? The only other major player for the team was Cliff Battles - a fullback nearing the end of his career. They drafted Andy Farkas in '38 to replace him but it's highly doubtful he'd be a gate attraction like Baugh. We always talk about D.C. as, traditionally, a football town - how the 'Skins hold a stranglehold on the sports discourse in the region (though that may be changing). How do you think that happened? Do you think it was just the Hoggs and Riggo or the "Over the Hill Gang?" As far as individual players are concerned, Baugh is the man primarily responsible for shaping the D.C. sports landscape - to the point where only now there's a legit threat to the Redskins Hegemony. Now, having said all that - yes, without a doubt, Alexander Ovechkin is the greatest individual athlete to represent a D.C. based team in one the major, four North American team sports.

Yup - Ovi. I feel like one of those SuperFans guys from the SNL skit about the Bears. "Ovi, half-smoke, Caps, Caps, Ovi..."

Oh yeah - I remember seeing an interview with Negro Leaguer/Hall of Famer/Sunshine in your day Buck O'Neill where he talks about Babe Ruth and even Ty Cobb playing exhibition games against Negro Leaguers in the Caribbean before integration. But as you mentioned, stat sheets are elusive and all we have now are anecdotes.

Baseball's the only sport I can think of where it's a little easier to compare players across eras. But yes, there was a lot of talent shut out of Major League Baseball until 1947. I still contend Walter Johnson would have been a Hall of Famer in an integrated league but he might not have been the legend he is today. He probably would have needed more than his famous fastball to get him through.

Ovechkin for sure - because of what he has been able to do on the stat sheet and the impact he's had on the Capitals organization. He's most to thank for changing the sports landscape in the D.C. Area. I don't remember the Caps having much more than a cult following in the region, even during their Stanley Cup run in '98. Now they seem to have the attention and admiration of the region's sports fans, especially those of my generation and younger. Baugh and Johnson are tied for 2nd in my book because while they played before the "modern era" - they were so overwhelmingly dominant and still hold records that may never be broken. Baugh was a prophet on the gridiron, showing people what football was going to be in the coming years. Were it not for meddlesome management (i.e. a backdoor firing of Ray Flaherty during his leave of absence to fight during WWII), he might have more championships to his name. Johnson was one of the few bright spots on wretched Senators teams and famously made Ty Cobb flinch the first time the Detroit faced Washington. Unseld and "E" share the third spot. Hayes was a prolific scorer during the Bullets "glory years" and Unseld was a beast in the paint. Real shame they couldn't stand each other - could've had more than one O'Brien Trophy in the case.

@Elessar78 - I forgot about "Fight and Win" guy. That was a huge meme on /sp/ back in my 4chan days. So cringy. Speaking of 4chan memes: World Cup time and the U.S. Men's team sitting it out, we're faced with everyone's favorite burning question: how come we're no good at soccer. Found this video - brings up some stuff I've heard time and time again (MLS's pay-to-play system, inaccessible youth soccer academies, no promotion/relegation system). There's a bit of NSFW language but the most egregious aspect of the video is evoking the term "handegg" for American Football - another /sp/ term I thought I'd put far behind me. Brings up some good points as far as I can tell but I don't know soccer like you all do.

And this comes from the guy whose profile picture depicts the man who oversaw the first major wave of public school integration. Wow. Also seeing as I'm multiracial, this takes on another layer of awfulness. Nice.

This is what I get for avoiding the political threads on the forum. Do I even wanna read the proof or is it gonna just make me angry?

Say word? Are their receipts because this conversation took on a completely different tone.

This is where I am, too. I just can't bring myself to feel anything about this or other stories related to Trump's improprieties. We know he's a transparent cook, even by a politician's standards. There's been a mountain of evidence he's a crook for years. John Oliver called all this "Stupid Watergate" for a reason. I'd still bet on him winning reelection in 2020 because while he wasn't right about most things on the campaign trail two years ago, he was right about this:

Welp - http://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=23781272 It's about time Ashburn admitted what we've all known for years.

My grandfather was raised in G'town when it was the hood. According to my aunt, he lived in this tiny house with a bunch of siblings. He was the strong, silent type - died when I was a little boy. Though to my knowledge he wasn't a hockey fan, he would have loved all this. He'd probably pepper in a few stories about his beloved Senators winning the '24 World Series. But yeah - you never forget placing first in something. I did it once at a junior duckpin bowling tournament (still got the plaques somewhere). My band won a grand championship once at another tournament my freshman year and it was an experience I'll cherish forever. This is the way sports is supposed to be: a community affair. I understand why some athletes put up the walls (free agency, wanting their privacy, ****ty fans, etc.) but fans in the D.C. area love their teams and it's really nice to see the players on that team love the area back. I thought it was something you didn't see in professional sports anymore, like fans mobbing the field after a big win.

Can I also say: I've been loving the way the Caps have been partying with the city? I know professional athletes have a reputation of being aloof and sort of sequestering themselves away from the fans but this weekend they were all around town, living it up with the fans (albeit it kinda ritzy areas like Georgetown). Maybe hockey culture is a little more accessible than the other major sports but I thought that was cool.

I've been catching up with Dan Steinberg's Twitter feed and it has been one video/photo after another of the team getting ****ing traaaaaaaaaaashed