tshile

Clearly it is overly disruptive There are laws about this and universities have their own policies and it’s not anyone’s right to break those simply over a political disagreement and yes we have a first amendment but (can’t believe this has to be explained at this point) your rights stop at affecting others and their rights, and they don’t give you the ability to break the law. First amendment specifically has already been hashed out to the government can’t stop you from saying what you want, but you absolutely can be punished for it once you’ve been allowed to say it. There’s a process for having laws overturned if they violate your rights. Clearly enforcing the law on protestors is not a violation of your rights. in fact they just ruled that protest leaders can be held liable for what goes on at the protests they organize. this isn’t even close to a rights or first amendment issue. Stop pretending it is.

Totally disagree. You cannot allow them to break the law and be obnoxiously disruptive to everyone else simply because they have a political disagreement. There are ways to protest without breaking the law. They don’t like the lack of movement they’re getting on the issue, so they escalate. The answer is not to ignore that they are breaking the law. I’d like to see some enforcement of our new scotus ruling about protest leaders being held accountable for what goes on at their protests.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/30/netanyahu-vows-to-raid-rafah-with-or-without-hostage-deal?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-1 so that’s not good for renewed peace talks gonna get real nuts if they actually invade Rafah

It wasn’t me who said it that way, but I do agree. the notion of morals and war crimes and international laws with war is silly. We seem to be the only nation actively involved in conflicts that even tries. The reality is when push comes to shove there are no ****ing rules. People will do whatever it takes to survive. Not to mention how piss poorly these so-called rules are enforced. That’s fine - my point is that specific type of responses missed the mark (in my opinion)

Little push back on this one. As someone who thinks Israel is justified in what they’re currently doing (I define “justified” as believing we would react the same way, therefore I don’t want to be a hypocrite, while recognizing what is happening is awful) As much as I think you have to park history if the goal is peace - you can’t look at things in a vacuum. You can’t look at one action and ignore the preceding actions. Hamas didn’t only do it because they believe in the destruction of Israel and the Jews - they did it because they’re actively oppressed by Israel. which is to say nothing of the rightness, wrongness, or even the good decision making behind the attacks. but putting it the way you did just there, is like pretending Al qaeda conducted 9/11 simply because they hate the United States. They did it because we constantly screw around in the region and support Israel. Doesn’t change how awful 9/11 was - but it doesn’t do anyone any good to ignore motive and reasoning.

To be clear I’m not a person who thinks any of this is one sided. anything good or bad you can say about one, can be said about the other. The details, or dates, may differ but the core behind it all is the same.

@PeterMP I’m speaking to the notion that them removing explicit language about destruction of Israel, means there’s wiggle room to believe they don’t still think that. That’s all. I think there’s a leap being made there - but just my opinion. While I do believe the description of Hamas you have above - I do recognize it’s foolish to claim they cannot ever be part of negotiating a peace deal. Your IRA example is a perfect illustration of why that would be foolish.

Just to quickly add - I’m very skeptical we can have that impact. I just think there’s too much baggage in our history in the region and our confrontational stances towards governments in the region. not saying you’re wrong - just explaining where my stance comes from.

Also - just to add I recognize there is value in understanding the history. Many of you have made quite an effort to post clear historical facts about the overall conflict, even going back to pre-Israel days and discussing native Arab Jews and those times. and I appreciate that and I learn a lot from it. but at some point the question needs to be “how do we stop killing each other” and I don’t believe you can have this long of a history, and use that history as the justification of present actions. Not if you sincerely are interested in putting a stop to the killing. it’s hard for me to take anyone seriously when they spend a significant part of their argument recapping history. It doesn’t matter what happened 10, 20, 50 years ago. Not if you’re interested in peace. If putting a stop to the killing is your true goal, then you have to accept the history exists but no longer has a hold on how you move forward. I think that’s a prerequisite for peace and I won’t have any hope in true peace until I see both sides accept that - and I haven’t seen either accept that yet.

Yeah he seems to be able to get more done than McCarthy but I’m not convinced that’s his doing, but maybe just the establishment behind the scenes trying to get things done and at least lower the appearance of dysfunction

@Renegade7 yes. But I’ve felt that way for a long time. I don’t consider them a good ally. I definitely disapprove of how they’ve handled their issues with the Palestinians. i feel like I’ve already answered this question. I’ve also clearly said I’m not on their side, or either side, and that I don’t particular care what they do or what happens to either side at this point. somehow that’s turned into several of you thinking in some pro-Israeli propagandist. If you’re not going to take what I say at face value, and instead make up what my opinions are for me, then I’m not sure how we’re supposed to productively discuss it 🤷‍♂️ both sides have so much blood on their hands, have a long history of war crimes or bullying or terrorist actions, and both sides lack in any credible effort or desire to be peaceful. add to it that I think the constant loop many of you are stuck in believing there is some peaceful resolution to pursue, is a waste of time. how anyone gloms onto one side as the righteous side is beyond me and laughably naive. But that’s just how I see things.

I have been wondering lately if the 2024 election might be significantly impacted the same way 2016 was by Sanders supporters that decided to do whatever they all decided to do, vote for Trump, not vote at all, vote third party. The dems have a problem with this issue. We’ve had a fervent anti-Trump poster actually threaten to vote for Trump simply over this issue. 😂 Probably not anything to really add beyond something that could potentially become a problem.

@PeterMP reading your posts, you do an awful lot of extending benefit of the doubt to Hamas. neither of us can predict the future, and history isn’t a great predictor, but when it comes to this there is a long history of them feeling one way, and very little to support this benefit of the doubt you give them. at the end of the day your argument hangs on them removing explicit language that calls for the destruction of Israel. I hope it seems at least reasonable that this is not exactly reassuring of the claim you’re trying to make. it reminds me a lot of the argument that Hamas somehow has a legitimate “government” arm that’s worthy of any respect or to be treated like a legitimate government. oh I never thought it would go away (I don’t think I said that, but if I did I don’t think I meant it would just go away without escalation.) This latest escalation seemed the obvious path forward to me. which is why I said from the jump - you never need to take these college protestors seriously on topics like this. Like most young adults - they firmly believe they know it all and they base that on their 0 life experience as an adult. I posted about the protest I found myself in the middle of in Chicago last Saturday. That was a respectable protest. To me - that’s an effective way to do it. This stuff? I just hope they actually enforce the law on them. Universities have lost control of their campus and they’ve enabled this to happen as has been discussed throughout the thread.

No, you can just send the police in. That’s still an option. Probably the most productive one for the university and their students trying to get an education.

Yes and you see it throughout. Not to make it political but one thing the republicans kind of have right (emphasis on kind of, because ok the surface they have a valid point, but where they go with it from there gets messy and politically charged) is the inherent flaws in science and how it relates to things like climate change - you have the exact potential problem you’re outlining with cancer there. Again - on the surface they have a point worth considering, is all I’m saying. So the notion of paying people to find a problem produces people finding problems that suggest you need to pay them more to continue looking for/at the problems - is something that should always be part of the evaluation. The art of practicing science is not without potential flaws and that’s probably one of the bigger ones.

one of the things that came out of my mother being diagnosed with breast cancer was learning how much more money is donated to that specific cancer research and how that’s placed it in a significantly better place. especially when it came to the rare form she was diagnosed with. One that needs to be treated totally different than other breast cancers. And if you don’t, it gets you quick. If you do you can live a really long time with it. it seemed to me, based on that well credentialed cancer specialist at duke (I believe their university discovered the difference ~5ish years ago) that they could really use a lot more money on all the cancers just my personal exposure to it

Burner twitter account to talk about himself kinda guy though I’m honestly not sure which one is worse 🤷‍♂️ sorry, I now see you’ve already discussed this.

That sucks. I have so many friends that are flakes that sort of thing doesn’t bother me like it used to. I’m pretty much just plan on it and make sure I’m scheduling something I want to do with or without them. I have one that is notorious for throwing out an idea to the group - then being the one person that bails 😂 I have a flip story to add about being a neighbor though. few weeks ago a tree on my property fell onto the neighbors. Thankfully it took out their fence but somehow otherwise landed to not damage any of the many other things it could have - including their pool and associated things. Texted him to see how he wanted to handle it. Turns out they were out of town. Quickly called up my guy as doing it myself would have meant not getting to it for several days. he came out the next morning cleaned everything up before the neighbors got home. I covered the cost. Which is not necessary as the laws here actually make that his responsibility - but it was my tree, I felt bad, and just took care of it for him. I feel comfortable doing that because generally the group of us looks out for and takes care of each other. I consider it paying it forward 🤷‍♂️

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-delegation-visit-cairo-monday-gaza-ceasefire-talks-hamas-official-says-2024-04-28/ Lots more in the article

I would also like an explanation. I’ve been wondering it the whole time and the only thing I can come up with is the rangers just have a suffocating d, in addition to appear to me to skate faster and play bigger start to finish 🤷‍♂️

It’s not surprising theres ample examples of people catching strays from groups so riled up over their cause they direct their anger at someone that isn’t exactly deserving

1 on 4, got his rebound and put it back in. impressive to force that to happen

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67885910 Basically McDonald’s franchises work in a way where the overseas franchises are owned by people local to the region (same as they do here in the states) so I’m sure McDonald’s in Israel shows support for Israel. The article also talks about McDonald’s in Maylasia However there are also McDonald’s run by Muslim people in Muslim countries that I’m sure do things to support Muslim interests. the BBC article makes it sound like a misunderstanding. Which, if true, makes total sense because we see other instances of random things taking off on social media that aren’t necessarily backed by facts but take off anyways so… they’re even boycotting a Muslim run McDonald’s in Malaysia because *checks notes* they sued the BDS for calling against a boycott of them because *checks notes* a McDonald’s in Israel did something

That’s a whole can of worms you can open up right there. there’s several groups of people (that I’m aware of, sure there’s more types) it ranges from Jewish people that feel they are just supporting fellow Jewish people, all the way to weird (in my opinion) end times Christians that think this is how you bring about the end times or whatever it is those people think there were major US companies that supported the Nazis in the early ‘30s. 🤷‍♂️

At this point given how much I’ve found on this that confirms the everything I’ve ever heard from farmers on the subject, I am comfortable assuming you just have no idea what you’re talking about and maybe end made things up 🤷‍♂️ or maybe it’s regional and we just know farmers from different areas. Idk. It nothing you’re saying aligns with anything I’ve known from farmers nor what I’m finding online 🤷‍♂️