Once and for all, to settle the "phantom" holding call

[ArmchairRedskin]

A game wouldn't be complete without Bubba posting some blurry, one-sided photos, shown at the most opportune time for his side of the argument, without any photos showing the other sides viewpoint.

Good work, Bubba. You never disappoint.

Any predictions for next sunday?

[G-Prime]

Holding is defined by impeding progress by grasping the jersey and or pads. Of course you are supposed to impede progress but with your hands open. One of the above mentioned happens on every single play. However when you grab someone by the jersey or pads and pull them to the ground, that forces the refs to throw the flag. You've essentially left the refs no choice.

That is what happened on this play, I don't understand the controversy.

[Loyal2Washington]

Who cares it's football. Instead of arguing one call during the course of a game look at the grand scheme of things, the Redskins out played the Giants.

Let me guess the Giants would have gathered such momentum that the tired and worn out D-Line would have sucked it up and stopped the Redskins ground game, that was starting to gash you on every run. Then after a 3 and out Eli would have driven the Giants to another score, tied it on the two point converstion. Then after yet another shut down defensive stand, Eli would pick the D a part to set up a chip shot 32 yard FG to win the game and wrap up the NFC East title.

You guys may have a case, in fact if you lose next week and we win you guys will really have a hair up your you know what about one play. Not only would it have cost you a chance to wrap up the title early it may cost you the title all together.

:gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck

[PapaDRoc]

We still won by 15.....

[ntotoro]

A game wouldn't be complete without Bubba posting some blurry, one-sided photos, shown at the most opportune time for his side of the argument, without any photos showing the other sides viewpoint.

Good work, Bubba. You never disappoint.

Not for nothing, but... hunh... ?

What other side of the argument can there possibly be? You can see Snee's right hand grabbing the left-hand side of Wynn's jersey. You can see the jersey, matter of fact, is grabbed off the shoulder pad. What other side of the argument can there possibly be? Holding is holding. Even if it's accidental, like a facemask, the holding player still has to make some sort of effort to let go. That was sheer desparation on Snee's part.

[SkinsNumberOne]

Hitting the Qb passing in the knees, is a penalty, just like hitting a QB in the head.

"4. No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction. "

I think this is what you're referring to, but I wouldn't call that hit flagrant.

As for the holding, I think these pics do show holding. Good stuff, thanks. I've already converted a couple of doubters (granted, they're Redskin fans, but they said the tv didn't do a good job of showing the hold).

We'd like to think that refs don't make key calls that affect games, but it happens. In this particular case it looks to have been the right call. Sometimes it's not. Regardless, though, these calls are an unfortunate (but necessary) part of the game.

[stevenaa]

There was never any doubt. Even the NFL Channel tried to pull the "where is the foul" with a visual zoom-in, which they showed in slow motion. To sum it up, at the end, all you heard was yeah, it was a take down, holding. Call correct. It's official. Stop ****ing Giants fans, it's over.

Yup. Saw that too. He took him down to the ground. Definate holding.

[DCNightHawk]

It was holding, and I think it was a good call.

[Skins4Life8]

look on the bright side..

wait, hold on..

tiki didnt do anything..

nevermind, no bright side 4 da giants

[TD Riggo]

']bubba' date='

I'm not saying it wasn't holding. I just can't see in that pic. My eye sight isn't what it used to be. And to be honest, I never got a look that would say it wasn't holding. The announcers actually said it. I don't know if I agree. I never got a clear look. I'll trust the refs. It took more than just that call for the Giants to lose.[/quote']

Thank you.

You have really gained my respect by this post. Because I've read a lot of your fellow G'aints fans who claim that if that "phantom" call hadn't occurred, the G'aints would have been in a position to win. That reasoning is the result of smoking too much crack!

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Greisen's hit on Brunell was not flagrant. He wasn't running at Brunell and did a dive at his knees. He tripped which is in no way flagrant. It did not deserve a penalty.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hahaha I love this. Bubba and his video replay screen caps = Ross Perot and his charts from the presidential campaign back in 92. Hilarious stuff :laugh:

jk, you da man bubba! i like how you back up your arguments with visual evidence

[TD Riggo]

A game wouldn't be complete without Bubba posting some blurry, one-sided photos, shown at the most opportune time for his side of the argument, without any photos showing the other sides viewpoint.

Good work, Bubba. You never disappoint.

WHAT?!!

That doesn't even make sense!! How can photos be "one sided," and how could photos possibly show another viewpoint?!!!!!!!

Photos are facts. They don't "take sides!"

Sheez!

[Mania]

']Dude' date=' that aint holding, that is just blurry.[/quote']

With all due respect Tom, even if it wasn't holding. The unnecessary roughness penalty that lead to the touchdown prior to the half was just as bogus as the Amani Toomer TD.

You win some and you lose some and we have lost plenty in the way of ref calls.

[jayray78]

:gaintsuck :gaintsuck :gaintsuck this was an issue?:gaintsuck :gaintsuck :gaintsuck

[raperry2]

Thank you.

You have really gained my respect by this post. Because I've read a lot of your fellow G'aints fans who claim that if that "phantom" call hadn't occurred, the G'aints would have been in a position to win. That reasoning is the result of smoking too much crack!

Tom is pretty respected already. Even if he wants to say something debatable he has every right to do so. Anyway I admit I didn't think it was a hold when I saw it live. But those shots prove me wrong. The only awful call in the game that was in our favor was the illegal touch on the Giants' punt. But the reason we won appeared to be because the Giants did not match our intensity.

[BOYNTONBEACHSKINSFAN]

BIG DEAL! EVEN If there was no hold , we gift wrapped 2 giant touchdowns , the 1st a bull**** unneccesary roughness on ryan clark that led to a score and the lucky grab by amni toomer, even if the giants were to score on that bomb the skins would have marched right down field on there pathetic secondary

[bubba9497]

The only awful call in the game that was in our favor was the illegal touch on the Giants' punt.

if a player goes out of bounds, reguardless if they are puhed out or not, he can't touch the ball first. it was a good call

[Giants102180]

What upset me about that play was watching Tiki dive and Marcus Washington's knees after seeing Brunell go out on what I think was a DIRTY shot to HIS knees.

Watch the play before spouting this nonsense. Nick Greisen was tripped by Ray Brown and stumbled into Brunnel's knee

[SkinsTillIDie]

if a player goes out of bounds, reguardless if they are puhed out or not, he can't touch the ball first. it was a good call

He also continued to run out of bounds and made little effort to get back onto the playing field until he was much further downfield.

And regarding Snee... Bill Parcells certainly seemed angry at him after the play was over.

[Giants102180]

intentional or not, (just like a head shot on a QB).. it 's a penalty, and should have gotten a flag

No it shouldn't. Its no different then a gunner getting blocked into a punt returner making a fair catch. Nick Greisen was tripped into Brunnels knees by Ray Brown who CLEARLY extended his right leg on the play. Watch the replay

If thats a flag for anything, its on Ray Brown for tripping

[Aluadan]

That call was pretty sad I felt as was the roughing the passer call. I honestly think neither should have been flagged but hey, I certainly will take them. Don't need to try to justify a borderline call, just be fair and say while they probably shouldn't have been called, that's just the way things go as we know full well with many bad calls that have gone against us in the past.

[Giants102180]

Hitting the Qb passing in the knees, is a penalty, just like hitting a QB in the head.

Not when the hit came directly due to the fact that the player was tripped into the QB's knee's by a RG who should have been flagged for tripping

[bubba9497]

Not when the hit came directly due to the fact that the player was tripped into the QB's knee's by a RG who should have been flagged for tripping

too bad that didn't happen

[Giants102180]

too bad that didn't happen

Bubba, watch the replay. On the close up slo mo its clear as day, and your either dumb or blind if you don't see it. Ray Brown was engaged in a block and saw Greisen running free and extended his right leg, tripping Greisen, who stumbled into Brunnels knees. 3rd play of the 2nd half. Check it out and then admit you're wrong