MSN: Humanists call for African age of 'Enlightenment'

http://news.msn.com/world/humanists-call-for-african-age-of-enlightenment-2

At next week's conference of African Humanists in Ghana, participants face an uphill battle convincing religious fundamentalists to temper their fervor and question beliefs that lead to killing of children and albinos as witches.

GENEVA — African Humanists — atheists, secularists and freethinkers — gather next week in Ghana, one of the world's most religious countries, to look at ways to promote an "Enlightenment" they argue is vital to bring their continent into the modern age.

But despite stirrings of dissent over the power of preachers and imams, they recognize they have an uphill battle to convince ordinary people to question faiths — Christianity and Islam — brought to Africa by missionaries and conquerors.

Just as difficult, they say, is the fight against traditional African beliefs often supported by new "churches" like sorcery which lead to the killings of children and albinos accused of being witches.

"At a time when the dark and destructive forces of religious fundamentalism and superstition are ravaging the continent, the Ghana conference is a sign of light, hope and renewal," said prominent Nigerian humanist campaigner Leo Igwe.

Cont'd at link....

The missionaries and others thought they were doing 'good works' also.

Be careful in how you interfere.

The missionaries and others thought they were doing 'good works' also.

Be careful in how you interfere.

Let's not place dogmatism in the same category with not dogmatism.

Let's not place dogmatism in the same category with not dogmatism.

You should go enlighten them:)

Let's not place dogmatism in the same category with not dogmatism.

I 'believe' that is the point of the article and movement, some don't see other-belief as equal to their belief.

causes problems when mixed together (shaken or stirred). Huge Regions of examples.

Though as i said, going in there like missionaries is odd to me as its doing that why you decry.

I 'believe' that is the point of the article and movement, some don't see other-belief as equal to their belief.

causes problems when mixed together (shaken or stirred). Huge Regions of examples.

Though as i said, going in there like missionaries is odd to me as its doing that why you decry.

Somehow we have to acknowledge that not all beliefs are equal, that some beliefs are clearly wrong, harmful, etc.

Actually Thiebear there's a huge difference, namely in the belief system being proposed. To quote from the article, ""We do not wish to eradicate religion from our culture but to show there are alternative ways of viewing the world and that asking questions and following the evidence is essential if we are to develop as a nation," an association statement said." By definition almost all religions purport to be the one true way and hence seek in one way or another to supersede all other religions. Humanism OTOH seeks only to promote/support the intrinsic value of human beings, ethics, and scientific thought but does not seek to eradicate other philosophies.

There is a growing movement (of which I am a part) among African Americans, and obviously now African Africans to remove the stigma from being agnostic/atheist. Trust me, you don't know the meaning of "outsider" until you reveal to another Black person that you're an atheist or agnostic.

They've decided that people that don't think as they do are the problem and that things would be better if only people would just take a pamphlet and discover all that Humanism has to offer. Wonderfully original plan.

---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 03:46 PM ----------

To quote from the article, ""We do not wish to eradicate religion from our culture but to show there are alternative ways of viewing the world and that asking questions and following the evidence is essential if we are to develop as a nation,"

I'm not sure how anyone could read that and not be struck by just how obviously disingenuous that statement is.

They've decided that people that don't think as they do are the problem and that things would be better if only people would just take a pamphlet and discover all that Humanism has to offer. Wonderfully original plan.

---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 03:46 PM ----------

I'm not sure how anyone could read that and not be struck by just how obviously disingenuous that statement is.

Secular humanists gathering to advance ideas of human cooperation and reason, as well as to provide support and reinforcement to other similar-minded people. Gathering is driven by concerns around integration of religions and governments, and has a goal of pushing back against wrong/immoral actions that are motivated by religious extremism. They are calling for Enlightenment. Wonderfully original plan indeed...

Do you think religious extremism is a problem? Do religious extremists think differently than you do? Would things be better if only religious extremists discovered all that non-extremism has to offer?

As for being disingenuous... where do you see it? They are saying well, eradicating religions is not the goal... are you assuming that it is? It does not have to be. They can promote their humanism and expect religions to die off naturally. Of course religions are not true, but many people do not think it is important to focus on that. Some people think that it is important to actively fight against religions. Other people want to focus on human well-being and such. The latter seems to make more sense in situations where religions and superstition is as widespread as it is in Africa.

The Ghanaian association has itself set out its own concept of what humanists — whose worldview is based on human cooperation, reason and rationalism, and rejects belief in deities and the supernatural — are up against.

"Believing in the existence of a god is inculcated from childhood through family, community, church and school," it said. Questioning the truth of religion was discouraged by fear of social ostracism and other consequences.

"It can mean difficulty finding work, developing one's business, making friends and finding romantic relationships," the association said. People who refused to go to church or mosque were often cast out by their families.

"The common perception is that if you do not believe in the existence of a god you must either be worshipping the devil or be an immoral person, not to be trusted," it said.

Igwe says that in large parts of the continent, the media are hostile and often pillory freethinkers, especially when they argue for the human rights of marginalized groups like gays and lesbians, also excoriated by religious and government leaders.

"So often, people who break away from blind faith believe they are alone," he told Reuters. "That is one reason why we have to organize and speak out loudly and let people know there are many others who think like them."

Do you have a problem or disagree with any of this?

I always hated the Enlightenment. Worst thing that ever happened to Western Civilization.

I hope Africa can be spared.

Maslow might suggest that you cant have enlightenment until basic needs such as safety and sustenance are met.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Until then, religion will fill the void.

I always hated the Enlightenment. Worst thing that ever happened to Western Civilization.

I hope Africa can be spared.

Yeah screw those Enlightenment buffoons thinking that they can fix problems by writing pamphlets and books and stuff. How dare they try and change people's minds.

Maslow might suggest that you cant have enlightenment until basic needs such as safety and sustenance are met.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Until then, religion will fill the void.

If the void is needed to sustain religions, then religions will work to sustain the void. This is one reason for religious objections to birth control, the only 100% effective way to eliminate poverty.

Yeeaahhh, let me know how that all works out for ya...

Secular humanists gathering to advance ideas of human cooperation and reason, as well as to provide support and reinforcement to other similar-minded people. Gathering is driven by concerns around integration of religions and governments, and has a goal of pushing back against wrong/immoral actions that are motivated by religious extremism. They are calling for Enlightenment. Wonderfully original plan indeed...

Do you think religious extremism is a problem? Do religious extremists think differently than you do? Would things be better if only religious extremists discovered all that non-extremism has to offer?

You aren't the first person to be totally sold on a religious movement so I will forgive your wide eyed belief. I wonder if it surprises you to hear that that you come off like a kid fresh out of Jesus camp explaining the wonder of his new belief and how things would be better if people just agreed with this way of thinking. Do you think sin is a problem? Do you think those that wish to sin thing differently than you do? Would things be better if only sinners discovered all that God has to offer?

There are people behind this latest movement and I don't make a habit of trusting people with religious ideas telling me they've got the answers. Especially when they gather up a nice echo chamber to sit and talk about those not in the room.

As for being disingenuous... where do you see it? They are saying well, eradicating religions is not the goal... are you assuming that it is? It does not have to be. They can promote their humanism and expect religions to die off naturally. Of course religions are not true, but many people do not think it is important to focus on that. Some people think that it is important to actively fight against religions. Other people want to focus on human well-being and such. The latter seems to make more sense in situations where religions and superstition is as widespread as it is in Africa.

I couldn't even imagine typing what you did with a straight face. Then again you do seem to have gone extremist yourself which would explain it. In your mind do you really think that there is a fundamental difference other than strategy in challenging a religion directly and simply dismantling it by other means? Religions have spread via the sword, the word, and the good deed through out history. This time however... this time is different. Right? Because you don't represent a religion! There is no church simply agree to believe this that and this and you're enlightened. Ta da! Belief systems always tend to be nicer before they get into power

Do you have a problem or disagree with any of this?

Yes. I don't believe any of it.

Somehow we have to acknowledge that not all beliefs are equal, that some beliefs are clearly wrong, harmful, etc.

Yep, and others do the same to you. rinse/repeat.

Sometimes there are alternate examples that don't require your belief to be better than others.

You aren't the first person to be totally sold on a religious movement so I will forgive your wide eyed belief even though it sickens me to read it. I wonder if it surprises you to hear that that you come off like a kid fresh out of Jesus camp explaining the wonder of his new belief and how things would be better if people just agreed with this way of thinking. ...

This does not surprise me because it is a very common way to slander people like me.

Scientists say that young earth creationists do not understand science. Young earth creationists say that scientists are dogmatically adhering to Darwinism. And the flat earth keeps going round and round.

There are people behind this latest movement and I don't make a habit of trusting people with religious ideas telling me they've got the answers. Especially when they gather up a nice echo chamber to sit and talk about those not in the room.

I am not sure how to respond to a claim that Humanism and Enlightenment are "latest movements".

I couldn't even imagine typing what you did with a straight face. Then again you do seem to have gone extremist yourself which would explain it. In your mind do you really think that there is a fundamental difference other than strategy in challenging a religion directly and simply dismantling it by other means? Religions have spread via the sword, the word, and the good deed through out history. This time however... this time is different. Right? Because you don't represent a religion! There is no church simply agree to believe this that and this and you're enlightened. Ta da!

In a world where every idea is a dogma, every idea is a dogma.

Belief systems always tend to be nicer before they get into power

USA is doing great with its Enlightenment "belief systems" in power. It would be doing even better if there were not as many evolution deniers and such.

Yes. I don't believe any of it.

- Believing in the existence of a god is inculcated from childhood...

- [questioning religion] can mean difficulty finding work, developing one's business, making friends and finding romantic relationships, [etc].

- The common perception is that if you do not believe in the existence of a god you must either be worshipping the devil or be an immoral person, not to be trusted.

- So often, people who break away from blind faith believe they are alone.

- Earth is round.

Nothing will change until you change the culture, values and mindsets of these peoples. It's a slow and arduous process which will take longer than you can imagine. Education and a good enviorment do wonders, too bad most people in this world don't have access to either.

Yep, and others do the same to you. rinse/repeat.

Sometimes there are alternate examples that don't require your belief to be better than others.

I think that beliefs which oppose coalitions that focus on human cooperation and well-being are inferior and should be opposed strongly and openly.

This does not surprise me because it is a very common way to slander people like me.

Scientists say that young earth creationists do not understand science. Young earth creationists say that scientists are dogmatically adhering to Darwinism. And the flat earth keeps going round and round.

Apologetics already? That came sooner than expected. I'm not claiming the earth is flat, I'm claiming that people are dishonest. You're certain however that these people are genuine without having met them or knowing anything about them... All because they are pushing your belief system.

I am not sure how to respond to a claim that Humanism and Enlightenment are "latest movements".

So this movement is already dominant in the area? I was under the impression that it wasn't but was announcing itself and hoping to grow.

In a world where every idea is a dogma, every idea is a dogma.

Dip, dodge, dive, duck, and dodge. The five d's of dodgeball!

USA is doing great with its Enlightenment "belief systems" in power. It would be doing even better if there were not as many evolution deniers and such.

Thank goodness those atheist held a meeting and set all the believers straight in the USA. Do you even believe in religious freedom or do you simply tolerate it waiting for religions to, how did you put it, die naturally?

- Believing in the existence of a god is inculcated from childhood...

- [questioning religion] can mean difficulty finding work, developing one's business, making friends and finding romantic relationships, [etc].

- The common perception is that if you do not believe in the existence of a god you must either be worshipping the devil or be an immoral person, not to be trusted.

- So often, people who break away from blind faith believe they are alone.

- Earth is round.

is that straight from a online pamphlet or some memorized mantra? Creepy.

I know that alexey has gotten under some people's skin in the past, but the extent to which people go to attack him sometimes surprises me.

This story wouldn't be a particularly controversial matter in the Tailgate if anyone but alexey had posted it.

I usually dont get involved in this subject, but I'll hop in here, probably for the only time. First, I'm a Atheist and not suprisingly I suppose have a background in Biology. But I really dont like Atheism being pandered like religion. It's a LACK of religion IMO and with some people pushing on everyone just like religions do and have done in the past, it's kinda pisses me off. Yeah, would I like people to be educated and understand how things really work, or how silly I feel a Supreme Being (that came from where exactly?) and created us in his image, yada yada, is not really realistic. But what I would really like is to have the right to not have religion shoved down my throat and for everyone to be able to practice their relgion, whatever it may be without having to worry about it. Science is not a religion, it's a search for answers. We do the best we can with the information we have at the present time, which may or may not change with new information. Treating it like every other religion cheapens it and to be quite honest, makes those that do look abit hypocritical IMO. If someone believes in God (by whatever name you call him/her), that should be their right be we should be ok with it. If you are looking for answers for questions you might have, maybe science can help, but maybe not, because science does not have answers for alot of questions right now. But it's trying to answer them with real information, as best it can. It's not perfect, makes mistakes (for any number of reasons) and most of the time, gets proven "false" eventually with new information that changes things. But with all that I think it's much better to honestly look at something, not have a answer for it or admit the answer we do have could change at any point if we find something new, than just go with a nice story that is warm and fuzzy, but doesnt really add up. But it's up to the individual, and we should all be ok with whatever someone believes in. As long as it's not being crammed down someones throat that doesn't want it.

I know that alexey has gotten under some people's skin in the past, but the extent to which people go to attack him sometimes surprises me.

This story wouldn't be a particularly controversial matter in the Tailgate if anyone but alexey had posted it.

Which one of my "attacks" surprised you? I'm still not sure why my simply not taking this group in Africa at face value upset him. I don't believe any group in Africa.

Which one of my "attacks" surprised you? I'm still not sure why my simply not taking this group in Africa at face value upset him. I don't believe any group in Africa.

Well, it started with this: "You aren't the first person to be totally sold on a religious movement so I will forgive your wide eyed belief even though it sickens me to read it."

and this: "I couldn't even imagine typing what you did with a straight face. Then again you do seem to have gone extremist yourself which would explain it"

and this was kind of jarring too: "Belief systems always tend to be nicer before they get into power"

Basically, your assumption that these people must be secret Stalinists or something, and that alexey is a moron for not recognizing it. :whoknows:

I guess like any other subject, I don't understand why people can't leave others be when it comes to their personal beliefs about religion.

People have been fighting with each other over religion since the beginning of time. At what point do we say enough is enough, and accept that we are a dynamic group of people that have to share the world we live in and should be able to respect each other's beliefs whether we agree with them or not?

The arguing and fighting hasn't changed anything (for thousands of years now), so why not try something new, you know, like letting people believe whatever they want in peace?