Time to face the facts, Van Halen WAS better with Sammy Hagar (At least live anyway)

As a fan of all incarnations of the band, I have finally come to accept that at least live, "Van Hagar" was much better live then "Van Halen." (With exceptions given to 2004 and 2007 reunion tours. Eddie was a shell of himself in 2004, and Dave could finally remember the words in 2007) You can talk about the Dave era albums being "better," or the Sammy era albums being "better," but that had more to do with Eddie and the direction he chose to take the band. After the "1984" album he wanted a more commercial sound.

As an example I give you a video I recently posted in a greatest "Frontman" of all time thread. David Lee Roth, some say the quintessential hard rock "showman" could never get the words right it seems in any live performance. The guy was either too loaded, or too dumb to remember his own lyrics. (Or he wanted you to think he was) For sheer "entertainment" value, he gets his points.

Not safe for work (Language)

Now by comparison, I give you a video of Van Hagar. The lead track off of Live Without A Net "There's only one way to Rock" (which isn't even a Van Halen song) If you can't see the difference in the quality of the performance (not just the vid) I don't know what to tell you. Sammy sings better. He adds another guitar to the line up...AND he "remembers all the ****ing words!"

Again, not safe for work (Language at end)

Discuss (For those that give a **** )

**As an aside, I wonder if Sammy had been more willing to sing a larger variety of Dave-era tunes, would he have been more accepted by the Dave loyalists. Look at what groups like Journey and AC/DC have done. They found singers to replace the original guys, who are not only willing to sing the "old" stuff, but embrace the heritage also and aren't threatened by it.

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I guess that would mean you'd have to agree Van Halen was any good after their fourth album.

So that leaves me out.

~Bang

I guess that would mean you'd have to agree Van Halen was any good after their fourth album.

So that leaves me out.

~Bang

"Diver Down" was a majority of covers, with a few decent Van Halen songs, but no love for "1984"? Wow, tough crowd. If you don't like that album, I can't imagine what you think of the Sammy stuff.

"Diver Down" was a majority of covers, with a few decent Van Halen songs, but no love for "1984"? Wow, tough crowd. If you don't like that album, I can't imagine what you think of the Sammy stuff.

Yeah, I didn't really like "Diver Down" too much. Their first three albums are great examples of 70s hard rock.

I'll say this,, i gave them every chance.. saw thm three times, and they progressively got worse.. the third time i actually walked out. Bored out of my skull. The first time (their first headlining tour) blew me away. The second time was .. overly scripted.. (Hey, you did that "joint thrown onstage is a toothpick" joke last tour!) and the third was just trash. (Complete with the same joint thrown onstage routine.)

They became caricatures.. and after the initial rush of creativity, it quickly became apparent to me that Alex Van Halen may be the worst drummer I'd ever heard, and Michael anthony has been stealing money ever since he learned how to pluck two or three notes and call it a song. Bass "player" my foot.

Mostly I just grew away from the formulaic pop rock that they produce.

~Bang

I have to hand it to you Painkiller. You are one dedicated VH fan.

I heard the demo version of House Of Pain on the interwebz a week or so ago. What a kick ass tune. '77 VH is some primo stuff.

Well, I'll say this,, i gave them every chance.. saw thm three times, and they progressively got worse.. the third time i actually walked out. Bored out of my skull. The first time (their first headlining tour) blew me away. The second time was .. overly scripted.. and the third was just trash.

They became caricatures.. and after the initial rush of creativity, it quickly became apparent to me that Alex Van Halen may be the worst drummer I'd ever heard, and Michael anthony has been stealing money ever since he learned how to pluck two or three notes and call it a song. Bass "player" my foot.

Mostly I just grew away from the formulaic pop rock that they produce.

~Bang

by any chance were you at that Cap Centre show back in the day? Mike gets a lot of grief, but if you listen to the Chickenfoot album he can actually play well. His bass was always down in the mix on Van Halen's albums. I would say you may be right, except Eddie did seem to get better as the years went by. Even Van Halen III has some great playing, even though most of the songs are forgettable.

In fairness the only time I got to see them live was when that flaming queen from extreme was the frontman....what a joke he was live. As far as recordings, they peaked with the first album and the number of worthy songs contained on each LP kept dminishing with each successive release. I like some of Sammy's solo material, but his stuff w/ VH was pretty much worthless.

I have to hand it to you Painkiller. You are one dedicated VH fan.

I heard the demo version of House Of Pain on the interwebz a week or so ago. What a kick ass tune. '77 VH is some primo stuff.

I'm a dedicated Rock and Metal fan. My favorite topic to discuss other than the Redskins. I am like a poor man's Eddie Trunk. By the way, K.K. Downing retired from Judas Priest for those that haven't heard. They picked up a replacement for the tour, and are going to continue without him.

Dave and Sammy were awesome. After that.... :doh:

In fairness the only time I got to see them live was when that flaming queen from extreme was the frontman....what a joke he was live. As far as recordings, they peaked with the first album and the number of worthy songs contained on each LP kept dminishing with each successive release. I like some of Sammy's solo material, but his stuff w/ VH was pretty much worthless.

ahh, Gary Cherone. I also saw that show at Nissan Pavilion. I will say that it was strange seeing somebody up there that wasn't Sam or Dave, but to his credit he at least sang songs from both eras...and the guy can sing. He just didn't fit for Van Halen. With that said, Van Halen fans will probably never get another show with such a good variety of both eras. "Right Now" and "Romeo Delight" performed in the same set.

If you like pukey Poppy synthesized music catering to the MTV crowd, and musicians who seemed to be very interested in hugging each other, then sure, Van Hagar ruled.

If you actually like Hard Rock and guys who were singing about banging chicks, not holding each other, rocking guitar solos and Fun then the real Van Halen ruled.

Did you ever See the original VH in the early 80's? One of the Greatest shows I ever saw was VH at the cap center in 1982.

The 2008 VH show was great simply to see the best hard rock band ever reform, even if it was with a younger mulletted bassist.

I saw Van Hagar in the early 90's and it was all hugging on each other and gay songs.

I actually like Sammy -he is a cool dude and Chickenfoot is great but he ruined a great band.

If you like pukey Poppy synthesized music catering to the MTV crowd, and musicians who seemed to be very interested in hugging each other, then sure, Van Hagar ruled.

If you actually like Hard Rock and guys who were singing about banging chicks, not holding each other, rocking guitar solos and Fun then the real Van Halen ruled.

Did you ever See the original VH in the early 80's? One of the Greatest shows I ever saw was VH at the cap center in 1982.

The 2008 VH show was great simply to see the best hard rock band ever reform, even if it was with a younger mulletted bassist.

I saw Van Hagar in the early 90's and it was all hugging on each other and gay songs.

I actually like Sammy -he is a cool dude and Chickenfoot is great but he ruined a great band.

This is the song all the Dave loyalists sing whenever this topic comes up for discussion. Your post made me laugh on a couple different levels. Maybe your memory is a little faded, but check out that Video I posted of Dave-era Van Halen. (Just so happens to be from that show your talking about. ) As a matter of fact, look up ALL the videos from that show on Youtube. I don't think there is one where Dave doesn't forget 1 or 2 verses, and either get completely off key, or fall behind the tempo.

He is great at drinking tea from a Jack Daniels bottle though. You want to talk about gay, (not that there is anything wrong with that, lol) check out the way Dave prances around the stage.

I've seen VH many times. Met them in 1984 at Peaches (record store) when they were on tour with Ted Nugent. One of may favorite bands. Great live band & DLR was always wasted when I saw them. Still put on a great show. Couldn't sing worth a crap. SH is just a different personality. Saw him with Montrose & he was great as a front man.

I am not a huge Van Halen fan but what I have heard of them from both singers, I prefer Van Hagar.

I've seen VH many times. Met them in 1984 at Peaches (record store) when they were on tour with Ted Nugent. One of may favorite bands. Great live band & DLR was always wasted when I saw them. Still put on a great show. Couldn't sing worth a crap. SH is just a different personality. Saw him with Montrose & he was great as a front man.

Did you see them early on with Dave? Most people say that the first couple tours with him were great, and then it all went downhill from there. Maybe one day we could get an official release from the band with stuff from that era. Maybe somebody out there video-taped Van Halen's first tour with an 8mm camera. The remaster guru's could work their magic on it, like they did with the "Led Zeppelin" DVD.

But was he as good as Bob Seger?

I remember reading how patty smyth was asked to replace Roth originally. That would have been a really interesting change...ballsy to even consider it.

Did you see them early on with Dave? Most people say that the first couple tours with him were great, and then it all went downhill from there. Maybe one day we could get an official release from the band with stuff from that era. Maybe somebody out there video-taped Van Halen's first tour with an 8mm camera. The remaster guru's could work their magic on it, like they did with the "Led Zeppelin" DVD.

The 1984 tour was their first I think. They were a second billing to Ted Nugent and it was their first album. To say the least they blew TN away.

Definately not safe for work, but this video will make you laugh your ass off. Nothing comes close to a Mike Anthony shenanigans and a bass solo. :rotflmao: While this debacle was going on Sammy must have been under the stage living out some of his stories he would later write in his book.

They went from "Ain't talkin' 'bout Love" to "Why can't this be Love?". Not acceptable IMO.

Live, I only saw Van Hagar so I can't say from personal experience but I'd rather see a poor performance of great songs than a kick ass performance of weak songs.

They went from "Ain't talkin' 'bout Love" to "Why can't this be Love?". Not acceptable IMO.

Live, I only saw Van Hagar so I can't say from personal experience but I'd rather see a poor performance of great songs than a kick ass performance of weak songs.

Yes, but that isn't the whole story of Van Hagar. I give the following as evidence. The "hits" of the Hagar era were catered to Radio, but some of the deeper cuts on those albums kicked ass.

Judgement Day from For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sfJBw-WRE

A.F.U. (Naturally Wired) from OU812

Get Up from 5150

by any chance were you at that Cap Centre show back in the day? Mike gets a lot of grief, but if you listen to the Chickenfoot album he can actually play well. His bass was always down in the mix on Van Halen's albums. I would say you may be right, except Eddie did seem to get better as the years went by. Even Van Halen III has some great playing, even though most of the songs are forgettable.

Yessir.. two Cap Centre shows in fact.

The one thing that really struck me each time i saw them was how AWFUL the opening band always was.

Me and a bunch of Forestville cronies were in the Cap Centre for those shows

~Bang

The only Van Halen Concert I went to included David Lee Roth and it was awesome so I might be biased when I say I disagree.

Those were the days, though in ' 79 I was able to see AC-DC at the Tangerine Bowl with Boston and the Doobie brothers.

Yessir.. two Cap Centre shows in fact.

The one thing that really struck me each time i saw them was how AWFUL the opening band always was.

Me and a bunch of Forestville cronies were in the Cap Centre for those shows

~Bang

There is talk of them eventually releasing that show officially. I don't know why they would do that...it's not very flattering. They would be better served releasing a video from the 2007 reunion tour. They did sound great on that tour, and for all the flack he is catching Wolfgang can play pretty well. As a back up singer, well he's no Michael Anthony, but he held his own. New album and tour with Dave in the works for this year. Supposed to be in the fall.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 10:56 AM ----------

The only Van Halen Concert I went to included David Lee Roth and it was awesome so I might be biased when I say I disagree.

Those were the days, though in ' 79 I was able to see AC-DC at the Tangerine Bowl with Boston and the Doobie brothers.

Wow, that must have been one hell of a show. AC/DC, Boston, and the Doobies. Now if I could see a great video from the very early Van Halen years, like the 79 tour, (Which was their actual first tour by the way) maybe I would change my mind.

There is talk of them eventually releasing that show officially. I don't know why they would do that...it's not very flattering. They would be better served releasing a video from the 2007 reunion tour. They did sound great on that tour, and for all the flack he is catching Wolfgang can play pretty well. As a back up singer, well he's no Michael Anthony, but he held his own. New album and tour with Dave in the works for this year. Supposed to be in the fall.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 10:56 AM ----------

Wow, that must have been one hell of a show. AC/DC, Boston, and the Doobies. Now if I could see a great video from the very early Van Halen years, like the 79 tour, (Which was their actual first tour by the way) maybe I would change my mind.

On it, I will make it a single click download after I snag it and PM you.

Fresh out of bootcamp in Orlando attending basic electricity/electronics school a couple of farmboys from Nebraska and a redhead babe from Illinois were shocked that a brutha snagged tickets while they were in class for all of us to go to the show. I missed out on the Blue Oyster Cult show though.