Time to face the facts, Van Halen WAS better with Sammy Hagar (At least live anyway)

[Busch1724]

The thing about Dave is that "I forgot the f#$#ing words", "look at all the people here tonight", were all partially scripted. You could do that before the days of the internet. He was brilliant. Rock is supposed to be dangerous,a little bit fun, and somewhat unpredictable. They were all of that with Dave. He could command an audience like no other. Sammy was just dry boring, but a really good singer and pulled it off live. I'd rather have Dave. It seems to feel like a backyard BBQ. I wish I could have seen those tours in the 70s and 80s, but thank God for youtube.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 11:13 AM ----------

Here's why I can't stand Sammy and his revisionist history....

This post was done by a VH fan at the VHND and debunked each piece of BS that he found page by page in Sammy's book:

http://www.vhnd.com/2011/04/26/qa-with- ... /#comments

It's been said over and over, but he sums it up very well page by page in Sammy's book with the facts:

# Adam says:

April 26th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

I’m a longtime fan of BOTH VH singers and longtime commenter at VHND. I thought I knew Sammy before this book came out, but I simply can not believe how much he lies in the book! Is he lying about Eddie? I don’t know because I wasn’t there. All the lies that I spotted are lies that any knowledgeable fan could spot. He is shamelessly rewriting history. I have numbered the lies I spotted below:

1) Page 54: “…the first Montrose album has sold more than 4 million records over the years.” According to the RIAA, it’s certified just ONE million. (Worldwide sales are barely more than USA sales for all Hagar’s albums).

2) PAGE 78: “I sold out the Oakland Coliseum that Fourth of July” [1980]. He fails to mention that he was on the bill with 4 other bands, three of which were hugely popular at the time: Blue Oyster Cult, REO Speedwagen, and Triumph, (and also Randy Hanson). Hagar conveniently implies he sold it out by himself.

3) PAGE 80: [in 1982]: “We went out on tour, headlining arenas, double nights in a lot of places.” From my years working in concert promotion at Electric Factory in Philly in the ’80?s (a huge concert promoter back then), I have the list of Sammy’s 1982 tour dates straight from Pollstar. There was only ONE city listed where he played twice: San Francisco. Again, he is lying through his fake teeth.

4-7) Page 90 contains one incredible paragraph that is the biggest pile of bull**** I’ve ever read relating to Van Halen in my life!:

“The tour for VOA was my most successful. I sold out arenas everywhere, two, three, or four nights some places, one of the top grossing tours in 1984–right up there with Van Halen, who broke at the same time with “Jump” and all that. I remember getting an award in Portland, Oregon. I sold out two nights and got the Show of the year. Van Halen was runner-up. We were neck-and-neck on the road. My album was 1.6 million, but they ended up selling 10 million records.”

4) “VAN HALEN “BROKE” WITH JUMP IN 1984?? How he belittles VH’s earlier success! I was under the impression that they broke in 1978, when they exploded with their earth-shattering debut, rewriting the rules for rock music and sold 2 million copies right out of the gate! Ed was winning every guitar player award in site. In only their first year, VH far eclipsed everything that Montrose & Hagar ever did. Everyone was talking about VH in ’78, and NO ONE was talking about Hagar or Montrose.

5) “I SOLD OUT ARENAS EVERYWHERE, TWO, THREE, FOUR NIGHTS IN SOME PLACES, ONE OF THE TOP GROSSING TOURS IN 1984–RIGHT UP THERE WITH VAN HALEN”.

Wow. With this statement, Hagar completely abandons any mindset that the “truth” is sacred. He is SHAMELESSLY rewriting history here. VAN HALEN was the monster that was selling out multiple arenas, not him! Hagar COULDN’T EVEN PLAY most cities on the east coast because he simply wasn’t popular over there. Hagar could sell out arenas in the midwest and in California, and that’s practically it. His VOA tour was his biggest tour ever, yet he played ONE night in each city except for places where he was big, such as St. Louis, Dallas, and San Fran, where he played two nights. He was playing ONE night in virtually every city (not 2-4), and overall, he played smaller venues than where VH was booked, and sold far less tickets in those venues. The VH tour was a 100% sell-out virtually everywhere, and on the other hand, Hagar had plenty of cities where he could only sell 30%-50% of the tickets, even after “I Can’t Drive 55″.

6) “We [VH & his band in 1984] were neck-and-neck on the road.” On what planet? Anyone who was alive during the ’80′s knows that Van Halen was infinitely more popular than Hagar. Perhaps Hagar was the only person on EARTH who didn’t see it that way. In 1984, Van Halen was through the stratosphere – their tour absolutely dwarfed all other rock band’s tours, especially Hagar’s.

7) “I remember getting an award in Portland, Oregon. I sold out two nights and got the Show of the Year.” Again, from my years working in concert promotion, I have here Sammy’s 1982 tour dates. He played ONE night in Portland, Oregon, on 3/19/82, at the Memorial Coliseum. The dates before and after were both in Washington. No other Portland dates.

8 ) Page 113: “Before I joined the band, Van Halen didn’t have a particularly tight show. Roth would talk. They’d do another song. Ed would play a 20 minute guitar solo. They would do another song. Roth would talk some more, another song, Al would do a drum solo for 30 minutes. On the 1984 tour…they were doing 8 songs in a 2 hour show. They ended every song the same way.”

Any fan who reads this who either saw Van Halen before Sammy joined, or owns ANY amount of old Van Halen bootlegs, knows that every single thing Sammy said in that paragraph is complete bull****. EVH’s solo was always around 10 minutes. Alex’s was always 3-4 minutes. They always did 16 songs, not counting solos. VH was a well-oiled machine, a stellar production, and tightly choreographed – the exact opposite of what Sam describes. Again, he is shamelessly rewriting history to try to diminish what Van Halen was before he joined.

9) Page 121: “The record [sammy's solo album "I Never Said Goodbye"] went platinum immediately.”

As of today, 4/26/11, it has only been certified Gold status w/ the RIAA.

10) Page 122: “We [VH in 1986] were selling out four nights in arenas anywhere.” Although the 5150 tour was a smashing success, and they occasionally would sell 2, 3 or even 4 nights in certain cities, the band played ONE night vast majority of cities. Also, the 5150 tour wasn’t as big as the 1984 tour, which had the band playing one additional night in several cities than they were on the 5150 tour.

11) Page 173: “The fans went against Roth. He died a quick death as a solo artist.” [When he went solo in 1985]

I would say that most current VH fans are under the impression that Hagar’s solo career has been more successful than Roth’s. However, if you want to measure the success with ALBUM SALES, Roth’s solo career has actually been more successful than Hagar’s! Roth’s first 3 albums went Platinum (Crazy From The Heat in ’85, Eat ‘EM And Smile in ’86, and Skyscraper in ’87). Hagar, however, never had could match that success – he never had 3 consecutive Platinum solo albums… just 3 consecutive GOLD albums, and then later in 1987 released another one that only went gold, with the help of Eddie playing bass. Hagar’s solo career simply was never as big as Roth’s was in the ’80′s. Roth was consistently platinum, while Hagar was consistently gold.

12) Page 222: When Irving Azoff told Hagar that the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame wanted to induct Van Halen, but only the Roth-version of the band, Hagar says, “I went nuts on Irving. I was in the band longer than Roth. He was in Van Halen seven years. I was with them eleven years. I sold more records than he did. How could they do that to me?”

He is wrong on both counts. Roth was in VH for 12 years (’74-’85) and VH sold twice as many albums with Roth than with Hagar. (See RIAA.com).

13) Page 234: Sammy says that, before he joined VH, “I was selling out multiple arenas, had five platinum albums in a row on Geffen, and I was ripe to join Van Halen when they asked…”

I already went over the “multiple arenas” bull. As for “5 platinum albums in a row on Geffen”? He had only 3 Geffen albums, and none were platinum:

1981 Standing Hampton – Gold as of 1985.

1982 Three Lock Box – Gold to this day.

1984 V.O.A. – Gold as of mid-1985.

Those are all the major lies that I can detect, just as a fan. I can’t even imagine how many more lies are in the book that the fans would have no way of detecting.

Hagar wants all the fans to think that he was hugely successful BEFORE he joined VH, as if joining them wasn’t necessarily the thing that catapulted his career. In countless interviews, he states that his solo albums were going platinum before VH.

This is all a lie. In reality, NONE of his solo albums went platinum by the time he joined VH in mid 1985. Sure, as of 2011, 3 of his albums have gone platinum (Montrose, Standing Hampton, and V.O.A.). But Hampton didn’t go platinum ’till 1992, V.O.A. didn’t go platinum until Nov. ’85, and Montrose didn’t until many years later, either.

YES, Hagar was (moderately) successful before VH, and good for him!! Why can’t he just be satisfied with the success that he truly DID have and just be HONEST about everything in his book? It’s because his ego and his insecurity can’t handle the truth.

Sammy’s all about HIMSELF. He belittles Roth and Eddie to try to seem better than them. He belittles the legacy that Roth, Ed, Al, & Mike created together, just to make HIS years in VH seem better. I find his behavior disgusting and immoral. Nothing outside of HIMSELF is sacred to him, and certainly not Van Halen! Ironically, his very own autobiography shattered my respect of him.

[USS Redskins]

This is the song all the Dave loyalists sing whenever this topic comes up for discussion. Your post made me laugh on a couple different levels. Maybe your memory is a little faded, but check out that Video I posted of Dave-era Van Halen. (Just so happens to be from that show your talking about. ) As a matter of fact, look up ALL the videos from that show on Youtube. I don't think there is one where Dave doesn't forget 1 or 2 verses, and either get completely off key, or fall behind the tempo.

He is great at drinking tea from a Jack Daniels bottle though. You want to talk about gay, (not that there is anything wrong with that, lol) check out the way Dave prances around the stage.

I AM an un-apologetic Dave loyalist... I understand that you like weak pop music, no problem, that is your choice and I commend you for being so honest about it. Most people would run and hide from those un-natural feelings of liking such lame tripe...

But, come on - you are cherry picking YOU TUBE videos... I saw them live 4 times, with Dave in 1982, with Sammy in 2001, Gary Cheronne (OMG that sucked) and Dave again with the 2008 reunion tour... Dave kicked Sammy's ass.

And Dave Gay? I wont even address that. Blasphemy.

Sammy was just a big bore. But again, I do like the guy.

Just my opinion.

[SkinsCrank]

Van Halen with Roth>>Van Halen with Hagar

FACT

[Commander PK]

I remember reading how patty smyth was asked to replace Roth originally. That would have been a really interesting change...ballsy to even consider it.

Patty was hot back in the day, but I couldn't even imagine this gal fronting Van Halen. How bizarre that would have been. Enjoy cheesy 80's videos. (Great songs though)

I like this one better Cheese factor ramped up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIDaBF8LILk

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 11:31 AM ----------

On it, I will make it a single click download after I snag it and PM you.

Fresh out of bootcamp in Orlando attending basic electricity/electronics school a couple of farmboys from Nebraska and a redhead babe from Illinois were shocked that a brutha snagged tickets while they were in class for all of us to go to the show. I missed out on the Blue Oyster Cult show though.

Dude that rocks, thanks.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 11:43 AM ----------

Busch1724, I saw that post on Van Halen news desk. It might come as a surprise to some people, but I probably check that site at least once a week

For the most part, no argument from me on the debunking of parts of Sammy's book. I don't know if his intent was to flat out lie in some of those quotes, or if he is deliberately stretching the truth. Maybe he's just trying to get a reaction from Eddie. Somebody on that website also pointed out, that when Sammy talks about "out selling" Roth, he is talking about what the albums did at the time. Not the fact that, for instance a few years ago, 1984 hit something like 15 million copies sold. It is true that all Sammy's albums with the band went #1, something they never did with Dave (Although it did take Thriller to hold 1984 out of #1)

[TradeTheBeal!]

Using Painkiller's logic, it has also been determined that Scott Stapp is superior to Jim Morrison.

[Commander PK]

Using Painkiller's logic, it has also been determined that Scott Stapp is superior to Jim Morrison.

You know, that's really not that outlandish. I've always though The Doors were about the most overrated band I ever heard. I mean really, what was so great about them? about Morrison? I never got that one, and I'm being dead serious here.

[Busch1724]

...or if he is deliberately stretching the truth.

That's what he's done his whole career though. I read his book and two things come across to me throughout his whole life: it's always about the money and nothing is ever Sam's fault. In my mind he's a bigger egomaniac than Roth just due to the shear fact that Roth will admit he's got an ego and Sammy doesn't. With that said, live Sammy is a better singer but Roth is a better entertainer. Whatever your cup of tea is, is who one thinks is the better guy. I'm not a Rothtard or support Hagar blindly, but I do prefer the Dave years. It just seemed more fun.

[Commander PK]

and by the way

It's funny you should bring up Stapp, because I think Alter Bridge is vastly superior to Creed, and there is a similar situation to Van Halen, but they did change the name of the band. Which was a smart move, because one is pop rock, (Creed) the other is Hard Rock/Metal (Alter Bridge). They took a huge leap forward with Kennedy.

[TradeTheBeal!]

You know, that's really not that outlandish. I've always though The Doors were about the most overrated band I ever heard. I mean really, what was so great about them? about Morrison? I never got that one, and I'm being dead serious here.

That's some good trollin!

Let me see if I can top it......Painkiller is, by far, the most overrated Judas Priest album...really only has 2 good songs on it. The main reason people hold it in high esteem is because it's the last album before the "douchebag new singer" came in and ruined the band. In that regard, it has a lot in common with VH 1984.

[Commander PK]

That's what he's done his whole career though. I read his book and two things come across to me throughout his whole life: it's always about the money and nothing is ever Sam's fault. In my mind he's a bigger egomaniac than Roth just due to the shear fact that Roth will admit he's got an ego and Sammy doesn't. With that said, live Sammy is a better singer but Roth is a better entertainer. Whatever your cup of tea is, is who one thinks is the better guy. I'm not a Rothtard or support Hagar blindly, but I do prefer the Dave years. It just seemed more fun.

I won't argue that the Dave years don't at least appear to have been a blast. I really don't know. I did grow up more in the Sammy Hagar era of Van Halen, and that probably makes a difference. The first Van Halen album I owned was 1984, the first I heard was Women and Children First. Not long after getting 1984, 5150 came out and I bought that one . (Remember when you used to be able to get the 12 cassettes deal for the price of 1 from Columbia house? ) I thought 5150 just kicked ass, without much experience with the Roth years at the time to compare the two. I discovered the rest of Van Halen's Dave albums later. My love of classic rock comes from my uncles. They were all 10 to 15 years older than me, and I was introduced to the music through them as I was growing up.

---------- Post added May-4th-2011 at 12:59 PM ----------

That's some good trollin!

Let me see if I can top it......Painkiller is, by far, the most overrated Judas Priest album...really only has 2 good songs on it. The main reason people hold it in high esteem is because it's the last album before the "douchebag new singer" came in and ruined the band. In that regard, it has a lot in common with VH 1984.

I don't know about that one, but fair enough. I think if you did a poll on a rock website, Painkiller would at least be in the top 3. Painkiller is kind of a stand alone album by them. They went full on speed metal for that album. Most of what they had done before (aside from the Turbo experiment) was more laid back. (Laid back compared to Painkiller) I mean, you can't even compare "You've got another thing coming" or "Breaking the Law" to "Metal Meltdown" or "All Guns Blazing"

You still didn't answer my question though. What's so good about the Doors and Jim Morrison?

[Kosher Ham]

Dave was better. He is a rock artist.

Sammy was a pop artist that landed a good gig.

Although I do agree that Morrison and the Doors are completely overrated.

[Sticksboi05]

VH VH II 1984

The rest is not necessary.

[Commander PK]

Bump

Recent pic of Eddie and Mike McCready from Pearl Jam. Eddie still looking sober.

www.vhnd.com

[Busch1724]

Also festival dates in Australia come August or September. I'm sure that means new music soon!!!

[Kosher Ham]

You sure that isn't Mick in that picture with Eddie ?

[Commander PK]

Also festival dates in Australia come August or September. I'm sure that means new music soon!!!

the latest word is that the album is in the mixing stage. Probably set for a fall release.

At least we hope