codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin I know lots of people hate the Ewoks. Many critics point to RotJ as the beginning of the end for the SW saga, and not just because it was the final installment of the originals. That said, the power of the Emperor/Luke/Vader scenes carried the great parts of the saga forward. And the space battle in RotJ is still the best space battle in movie history when it comes to effects, aesthetics, flow and reflection of plot developments. Out of all the SW universe, I hate the Ewoks more than anything, but I love ROTJ, great movie. I disagree on the space battle, I preferred the EP IV death star battle myself, but I'm not saying that one was bad, it was excellent as well, but I liked the drama more in IV's version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama There are so many fanboys that don't understand how obi can beat Vader/Anakin. Obi is a bad ass himself. It's because character wise, he's a priss. Again I attribute this to awful writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Neither do I. Someone at the Home Theater Forum scanned pages of one of the comics and posted it... :laugh: Greivous doesn't have Jedi powers at all, except apparently in the comics. In the movie, his lightsaber skills are apparently passed off as being a benefit of his bionic body. In the comic (occurring before the events of ROTS), Syfo-Dias is kept around by Dukoo for blood transfusions which give him Midichlorians. Not sure if this just helps his swordplay or if he can do stuff like force pushes, too. Nick LOL... I'm glad Lucas doesn't keep up with the EU, that would be gay... :laugh: :laugh: The clone wars cartoons were about the only EU stuff I really liked. I read a few books and while they were ok, it was nothing special. Even the Thrawn trilogy left alot to be desired IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Out of all the SW universe, I hate the Ewoks more than anything, but I love ROTJ, great movie. I disagree on the space battle, I preferred the EP IV death star battle myself, but I'm not saying that one was bad, it was excellent as well, but I liked the drama more in IV's version. I can see why you prefer the battle in Ep IV. I guess the reason I picked RotJ because the effects held up for 20 years, whereas the ones in Ep IV needed a little tweaking. So it was me adding up various factors and the involvement of capital ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin I can see why you prefer the battle in Ep IV. I guess the reason I picked RotJ because the effects held up for 20 years, whereas the ones in Ep IV needed a little tweaking. So it was me adding up various factors and the involvement of capital ships. Ok, I totally agree with you on that... The capitol ships were a very cool additon and the effects were much much better. I guess I was only talking about the drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Neither do I. Someone at the Home Theater Forum scanned pages of one of the comics and posted it... :laugh: Greivous doesn't have Jedi powers at all, except apparently in the comics. In the movie, his lightsaber skills are apparently passed off as being a benefit of his bionic body. In the comic (occurring before the events of ROTS), Syfo-Dias is kept around by Dukoo for blood transfusions which give him Midichlorians. Not sure if this just helps his swordplay or if he can do stuff like force pushes, too. Nick I'm sorry, EU is and always has been crap. Let's be honest, even Zahn's trilogy created the abomination that is 'force-negating' lizards: the ysalamiri. Dumbest idea in the history of EU. yes, worse than the Galaxy Gun or whatever the bleep else they conjured up. And isn't Sifo-Dyas, just a corrupted form of Sidious? Really, I don't get how anyone is being "kept around" by Dooku. Did Lucas even know what he was doing with that name/character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF It's because character wise, he's a priss. Again I attribute this to awful writing. Right, but he's not a badass in the same way that Anakin or Maul is. Obi's more reserved. The EP III book did a LOT in character development and insight into Obi. I've read ALL the books OT and PT and I can honestly say that they have improved my enjoyment of the films bigtime with more insight into the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin I'm sorry, EU is and always has been crap. Let's be honest, even Zahn's trilogy created the abomination that is 'force-negating' lizards: the ysalamiri. Dumbest idea in the history of EU. yes, worse than the Galaxy Gun or whatever the bleep else they conjured up. And isn't Sifo-Dyas, just a corrupted form of Sidious? Really, I don't get how anyone is being "kept around" by Dooku. Did Lucas even know what he was doing with that name/character? OMG... Mark this day down... I agree with you 100%....:laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Consider it marked. Thanks for the beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 As far as the EU, I really enjoyed the "Tales" series. Tales from the Bounty Hunters, Mos Eisley Cantina, etc. Some excellent writing in those. I would recommend them to any SW fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Consider it marked. Thanks for the beer! What about Luuke....:doh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin And isn't Sifo-Dyas, just a corrupted form of Sidious? That's the problem... no one really knows and Lucas won't explain it. Was Syfo-Dias already dead and Sidious/Palpatine just using his name as an alias with the Caminoans? Was Syfo-Dias in cahoots with Dukoo & the Separatists, not knowing that Dukoo was Sith? Was Syfo-Dias only really dead in "a certain point-of-view?" :laugh: :doh: Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF As far as the EU, I really enjoyed the "Tales" series. Tales from the Bounty Hunters, Mos Eisley Cantina, etc. Some excellent writing in those. I would recommend them to any SW fan. After EPIII is done, I may have to check some of that out. Most of what I've read though, I haven't really liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro That's the problem... no one really knows and Lucas won't explain it. Was Syfo-Dias already dead and Sidious/Palpatine just using his name as an alias with the Caminoans? Was Syfo-Dias in cahoots with Dukoo & the Separatists, not knowing that Dukoo was Sith? Was Syfo-Dias only really dead "to a certain point-of-view?" :laugh: :doh: Nick I think that Palps used Syfo's name to place the order then killed him, that way, no one could ask him about why he ordered them. EDIT... Palps probably killed Syfo first, then impersonated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill have all made similar complaints about dialog fromt the OT, and Lucas had help writing V and VI, not sure about IV. I think it's easy to say that Lucas isn't the best director, I think think his ideas and vision are what he's best at. I still think it would have been awsome to see what Speilberg would have done to any one of the SW movies OT or PT. I know that he had help in IV (at least according to a friend), but I didn't know about V. Hayden actually says that he thinks that the dialogue is good, so we'll see. Just to be clear, I do see the failings in dialogue in the OT. As I recall, though, in very few movies have I seen such terrible exchanges as between Hayden and Natalie in II. Those parts of the movie made me want to throw up. I'll have to rewatch, because I realize I'm being pretty extreme there, but I remember my reaction vividly (and some of the ludricuous dialogue and acting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsNumberOne I know that he had help in IV (at least according to a friend), but I didn't know about V. Hayden actually says that he thinks that the dialogue is good, so we'll see. Just to be clear, I do see the failings in dialogue in the OT. As I recall, though, in very few movies have I seen such terrible exchanges as between Hayden and Natalie in II. Those parts of the movie made me want to throw up. I'll have to rewatch, because I realize I'm being pretty extreme there, but I remember my reaction vividly (and some of the ludricuous dialogue and acting). Lucas didn't even direct V. Anyway, i agree that the "love" story was cheesy, but i suppose they had to have something so show them falling in love, I agree, that aspect could have been better. Portman isn't the greatest actress IMO, although I really like Hayden. Portman seemed really stiff, beyond the stiff ness of her character, there were opportunities where she could have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canyonero! Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Ep IV: 221 mil in first run, counting 6 re releases, 460 mil total EP V: 222 mil, 290 mil total, including re releases Ep VI: 263 mil, 308 including re releases... Interesting, ESB, which is widely considered the best of all the movies, which I agree, so far, has done the least at the box office. Which proves my point that Death Stars exploding, muppets, Jar Jars, and Miss Natalie Portman = $$$ Depressing us and cutting off Luke's hand = only $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Originally posted by Canyonero! Which proves my point that Death Stars exploding, muppets, Jar Jars, and Miss Natalie Portman = $$$ Depressing us and cutting off Luke's hand = only $$ :laugh: :laugh: :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins What parts do you feel don't fit well? I'm just curious what you think... #1 - C3PO was built by Anakin, never recognizes him in the first 3, as well as R2D2. #2 - They also never recognize Obi Wan. Someone you think C3PO would have recognized right away. Those 2 things are the most obvious, but there are other things that I can't think of right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 :geek: time. I was under the impression that the droids had their memory cleaned. Got that impression from the first one. And it would make sense considering. As for Annikan not remembering them, I'm trying to remember a time when they actually were in the same scene together in the first 3..... And of course, you see one droid you've seen them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins CZ, I understand that as a criticism. But they "fit" just fine. The issues I have with the prequels is that they seem too recent. During the original movies, the times that were discussed seemed so far away. Then we find out that all of this happened just a generation ago. Well, that actually makes sense. Luke is supposed to be, what? In his late teens, early 20's? That only gives Annikan about 20-25 as Vader. That would be 1 generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by Park City Skins :geek: time. I was under the impression that the droids had their memory cleaned. Got that impression from the first one. And it would make sense considering. As for Annikan not remembering them, I'm trying to remember a time when they actually were in the same scene together in the first 3..... And of course, you see one droid you've seen them all. See, that's what I've been thinking as well. That the droids' memories were cleaned out during the Clone war. But, since we haven't gotten to that point yet, we can only assume that he will go that direction. I hope he does, because there really isn't much more you can do to a droid to make it forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 There is a 17 to 18 year gap in between ep III and IV. Luke is supposed to be 17 or 18 at the start of Ep IV. Anakin was 9 in EPI, 19 in EP II and 22 or 23 in EP III. That makes Vader between 40 and 41 or so in Ep IV. Obi is about 10-15 years older than Anakin. And again, C3po will have his memory wiped in EP III, that's why he remembers nothing and again, like PCS just said, droids are like toasters, they all look alike, there is lots of evidence in the two sets of movies of other droids that look just like 3po in particular and r2. Makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama There is a 17 to 18 year gap in between ep III and IV. Luke is supposed to be 17 or 18 at the start of Ep IV. Anakin was 9 in EPI, 19 in EP II and 22 or 23 in EP III. That makes Vader between 40 and 41 or so in Ep IV. Obi is about 10-15 years older than Anakin. And again, C3po will have his memory wiped in EP III, that's why he remembers nothing and again, like PCS just said, droids are like toasters, they all look alike, there is lots of evidence in the two sets of movies of other droids that look just like 3po in particular and r2. Makes perfect sense. I agree about the droids not being recognized by Vader. There are many droids that look just like the both of them. Although, I can't recall too many encounters wher Vader & 3PO are actually in the same space together for Vader to recognize him. Your ages sound about right. Although, Obi Wan looks to be in his 70's in IV, but I guess living in a desert for 15 years will do that to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz I agree about the droids not being recognized by Vader. There are many droids that look just like the both of them. Although, I can't recall too many encounters wher Vader & 3PO are actually in the same space together for Vader to recognize him. Your ages sound about right. Although, Obi Wan looks to be in his 70's in IV, but I guess living in a desert for 15 years will do that to someone. Yeah, I don't remember Vader and 3po together too much either, except maybe when Han was put in carbonite. I agree about Obi 100%, he did look older than 50 something, but still, he's a crazy old hermit by then...:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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