Moon landing a hoax

[fuji869]

As some of you know there is a “Conspiracy Theory” about the moon landing being a hoax. It was all staged because at the time us and the former U.S.S.R were in a race to see who would land their first. Here a couple of websites on this so called moon landing hoax. :jerkoff:

Did we really land on the moon or do these conspiracy theory websites prove otherwise...only the ones involved know the truth.

www.moonmovie.com

www.moonhoax.com

[Tommy-the-Greek]

I don't think we made it to the moon. I think they went into a deep orbit of earth and stayed there for awhile and then came back to earth. I think there are other reasons then the cold war. It distracted Americans from Viet Nam, the assinations of Robert Kennedy and MLK also.

I have seen a conspiracy show that truly raised some doubts. The pics from the moon have shadows going in different directions, as if it were filmed on stage with lighting from all directions. The lander itself didn't make a mark when landing, nor did dust settle back down on the feet. And I don't believe we have the technology today to cross the radiation belt and to return humans back thru it safely. And with all the telescopes why havent we seen pictures of the moon buggy still there?

[Skins24]

:laugh:

Please say you're joking tommy!

you are joking aren't you? :?:

If not, you just made the list of stupidest things I have ever heard a human say....:doh:

The pics from the moon have shadows going in different directions

That's because there's a thing called the sun. The sun moves.

There's also a thing called rotation. The moon moves.

The lander itself didn't make a mark when landing, nor did dust settle back down on the feet.

This is the moon we're talking not earth.

The moon is d i f f e r e n t. The ground is different, the air is different, the rocks, the dust, etc. All different.

I don't believe we have the technology today to cross the radiation belt and to return humans back thru it safely.

Well if we didn't have the technology to cross this "radiation belt" you speak of...then we surely didn't have the tech to create a movie so precise and with such good special effects.

...Wait you said the technology today?

lol! You have it bad....

:alcoholic

[Baculus]

Actually, what Tommy mentioned are some of the more common assertions that Moon "hoaxers" discuss. But wait, there are answers!

The pics from the moon have shadows going in different directions, as if it were filmed on stage with lighting from all directions.

You'll see much of the same on Earth. Contrary to what some may think, shadows are NOT always parallell on earth--you CAN see intersecting shadows. Also, the shadows in the photos are affected by POV (point of view), moon terrian, and also, by the fact that the Earth itself does reflect light, which could cause additional shadows.

Remember, photos are images of 3-D objects, and their shadows: depth and angle due to POV must be taken into consideration.

The lander itself didn't make a mark when landing, nor did dust settle back down on the feet

This is the moon, remember? The dust isn't necessarily going to settle down immediately on the ground if it's kicked around by the lander's thrusters. Remember, the moon has low-gravity and no wind--it's the actually force of the thrusters that would affect the dust.

(While writing this post, I spent time looking at some NASA photos and found this: Thruster pic You can see the dust under the thruster that's been "scourged. Remember, the thrusters, while firing in descent, wouldn't necessarily produce a great amount of force.)

And I don't believe we have the technology today to cross the radiation belt and to return humans back thru it safely

The Van Allen belt of radiation's main threat is to the long-term health of astronauts, not short-term exposure. The REM exposure is low for a short-trip through the radiation belt.

Flux is also a factor: many of the particles of the Van Allen belt are low energy, which means they probably could not penentrate the ship's hull. This is an important factor.

And with all the telescopes why havent we seen pictures of the moon buggy still there?

This, I don't know. I have seen pictures of the landing site, and Earth is visible from that area, but perhaps the angle, where the landing took place, precludes being able to see it from Earth or an oribiting satellite, though the Mare Tranquilitatis is visible from Earth.

Upon first glance, some of these moon-hoax sites may appear to have an argument, but you gotta dig deeper!

Incidentally, it'rs really easy to find images of the lunar landing. Take this, for example, an excellent page: 30th Anniversy of the lunar landing

Moon exploration

Lots of neat stuff! BTW, this is one of my absolute favorite images:The Salute

Always seek the truth, but be wary of the truth ye may find!

~B.

[inmate running the asylum]

The only hoax here is this video film they are trying to sell on the moon hoax.

If we had not really landed on the moon as claimed, the communists in Russia at the time, would have had a field day proving it and exposing us to the world. Plus I guess the hundreds of thousands of people who work in the aerospace industry over the years, were also fooled? I had 3 uncles who worked on the actual rocket engines used to send us to the moon.

The video tape is the real hoax here. And if you believe this moon hoax crap tommy-the-greek, then you better go back to school and take some more refresher courses in Logic & Comprehension 101. :laugh:

Then again, maybe I'm not really talking to tommy-the-greek, because maybe he and Extremeskins is a hoax? :rotflmao:

[mardi gras skin]

I dunno, Inmate. Tommy's arguments against the moon landing sound like your arguments against the validity of the Bible to me. His arguments are just shorter.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Inmate, I guess you believe everything the Gov. tells you like a good little boy?

During world war 2 the US main land was bombed by Japan and the Gov. lied about the whole thing. There logic was sound enough, they wanted to prevent widespread panic. The average Londoner lived thru V1 and V2 raids and the luftwaffe's raids during the battle of Britian and there were no widespread panics.

Why hasn't a manned mission traveled back to the moon? There are many reasons to go back. The idea of building a moon station that would be able to track and intercept incomming asteroids for one. But in the last 30 years no manned mission has traveled past the radiation belts. Why?

They have pictures of our footprints in the moon soil. Well doesn't that tell you the surface is not hard but contains soft dust. If it wasn't, the footprints could not have been made. There is no way a lander with thrusters firing wouldn't kick up that dust. Yes with low gravity that dust could float away but not all of it.

The pictures I saw on that program could have been doctored. I would like to see pics from Nasa. If they show shadows going in 4 or 5 directions at the same time it is impossible to do that without artificial lighting. There are 2 light sources on the moon, earth and the sun. How many times have moonlight cast a shadow when you were taking pictures at night and be strong enough to outweigh the flash???

And I go back to the moon buggy. With all the Civilian telescopes why havent we seen one picture of the moon buggy on the moon.

And about uncles who work for Nasa....I have one who is still employed by them....I also have another who developed the guidence systems for torpedo's and who worked in Raytheon's think tank to develop the Patriot sytem. He tells me he has doubts about the moon landing. We crashed on to Mars how many times? And this with technology 20 to 30 years ahead of the moon era landing.

And about the radiation belts, How does anyone here know how severe they are? Have you gone up there with a gieger counter and done tests. Answer my question why has noone even attempted to go thru it in over 30 years? And don't tell me about money. They have wasted enough money on 700 dollar hammers and 300 dollar toilet seats to fund it.

So let's sum this up. Has our Gov. lied to us before? Yes. Is it POSSIBLE they never made it to the moon with a Manned mission? Yes. Do I believe everything our Gov tells us. NO. Is it my right to believe this? YES

[Om]

Damn, we're good. Faked not only the Apollo 11 mission, but Apollo missions 8, 10, 12, 13 (just for dramatic effect, I'm thinking), 14, 15, 16 and 17 as well. And all just to stick a finger in the USSR's eye. I'm thinking Oscar.

Thank goodness that The Truth has finally been revealed, though. Now the tens of thousands of people whose lifes' work have been proven hoaxes can at least sleep with clear consciences.

[Mad Mike]

Tommy my brother, the last thing in the world I want to do is have another verbal knock-down drag-out with you. But...

I just have to ask you this. How many people would have to be in on such a hoax to pull it off? Think hundreds if not thousands. Do you think they would all keep quiet so long? How about the real experts? Among the thousands of NASA enginers and scientists today, do you think they are all fooled? Or are they in on the hoax as well? (Just had a funny image of a new NASA scientist taking his pledge to keep the hoax alive and being taught the secret handshake ;-) Never mind the fact that as another poster pointed out, the Soviet Union had powerful radar capable of tracking our craft there and back again. Why did they not cry foul?

Now to debunk a few of your theorys:

1) Light on the moon. It's a very reflective surface. Light would bounce all around. From one rim of a crater for instance onto the "shadowed" rim on the other side. No big deal. Perfectly normal. I do photography BTW as well as some 3D along with my graphic arts so I'm somthing of an expert at this subject.

2) Along the same line, we did *not* have the technology to pull of the visual efects that would be needed to pull off the hoax. Hollywood could barely pull it off now, with the best effects teams avaiable. The average Joe might be fooled but try getting a tiny mistake in the phisics of a man bouncing across the moon in low gravity past a decent scientist.

3) The moon buggy. At 239,000 miles from earth, photography of a moon buggy from the earth is nearly imposible at this time. The Hubble might be able to do it but NASA has a very low priority for proving conspiricy theorys wrong when there is real science to be done.

4) We haven't gone back to the moon for the most simple of reasons. It's too damnd expensive. What cost a couple of billion then would cost trillions now. We would have to build a new rocket to match the Saturn Five since we have nothing available to lift the nessisary payload. (BTW, *If* China goes ahead with it's "plans" for a moonbase I would expect the country to be bankrupt in a few years).

I have to answer your question to inmate as well. I *don't* believe everything the Gov. tells me. But then I don't buy into conspericy theorys without solid evidence ether.

PS Tommy, I hope your back is doing better. I finaly got the results back from my MRI. Looks like surgury for me on my neck or I take the chance of loosing the use of my R arm. :doh: Now they tell me I have a seperate problem with my R shoulder/rotater cuff. :doh: :doh: Here's hoping your problems are less complicated. As I said before. I KNOW the pain you were in and I feel for you.

Peace:cheers:

[Skins24]

I think Tommy is arguing for the sake of arguing.

Why hasn't a manned mission traveled back to the moon? There are many reasons to go back. The idea of building a moon station that would be able to track and intercept incomming asteroids for one. But in the last 30 years no manned mission has traveled past the radiation belts. Why?

Do you realize how much it would cost in today's dollars?

You keep metioning this radiation belt...

Do you know how many nuclear bombs have been set off here on earth?

Radiation belt? Ha!

With all the Civilian telescopes why havent we seen one picture of the moon buggy on the moon.

Mad mike had it right with...

At 239,000 miles from earth, photography of a moon buggy from the earth is nearly imposible at this time. The Hubble might be able to do it but NASA has a very low priority for proving conspiricy theorys wrong when there is real science to be done.

and remember we only see one side of the moon every night...

Is it POSSIBLE they never made it to the moon with a Manned mission?

No!

Is it ok to live in ignorance? Despite ignorance being "bliss", no it's not ok.

You don't have to believe everything the goverment says, but this is ridiculous, this is taking it to a whole different level.

This is about as sane as saying the Twin Towers didn't fall.

[inmate running the asylum]

On the other Mars thread, tommy-the-greek claims the U.S. should send nuclear warheads to Mars and detonate them. On this thread he claims we never made it to the moon, and that it is a U.S. hoax.

How can we get to Mars, if as he claims we didnt make it to the moon? I suppose according to tommy-the-greek, the more hoaxes the U.S. government has in the pipeline at one time, the better for all concerned. :laugh: Somehow between these two Moon and Mars threads, I think his brain short-circuited and his wiring got crossed.

[Riggo-toni]

In Tommy's defense, I do have one major concern that unless someone can answer, has me doubting at least to some degree the moon landing.

The famous sequence where we plant the American flag on the moon - the flag is actually flapping in the wind. There is NO atmosphere on the moon, so the flag should be hanging straight down. Anyone want to explain this one for me. I'm no conspiracy nut - I actually do believe Oswald shot Kennedy, but I have to admit this does cause me some concern.

[Erwin S.]

I saw the show about the landing being a hoax and one other thing they mentioned - that hasn't been mentioned here - is that something like 5 people who were closely involved with the mission to the moon died mysteriously in the next few years after the landing.

Also, I would like to know more about this so-called technology that it would take to produce a hoax.

And, what's this Tommy is saying about the US mainland being bombed during WW II? Is this common knowledge?

Just wondering...

[inmate running the asylum]

riggo-toni,

I have never seen any U.S. flag flapping in the wind, on the moon landing documentaries I have watched over the years. And it was not flapping in the wind as you say, when I watched the actual moon landing LIVE. I also have a Life Magazine edition of the moon landing photographs and the flag is limp.

What is your source on this? You must have watched the moon landing on some second-hand television set imported from Bulgaria. :laugh:

P.S. The whole world watched the U.S. moon landing live on television. If the friggin flag had been flapping at the time, you mean to tell me that no one around the world would have noticed?

[Skins24]

1. The flag is not flapping. Since there is no atmostphere the flag is suspended. That's why it looks so stiff. Of course if you're moving with it, it's going to flap. But at a stand still, it's just suspended in air.

2. Alaska was attacked during WWII. He must be talking about that...

[inmate running the asylum]

In defense of Tommy here on this one issue, the U.S. mainland was bombed during WWII. And the U.S. did keep it a secret for damn good reason. We had just lost most of our Pacific Fleet to the Japs at Pearl Harbor, and we were in a total war with the Japanese and Germans. So it made sense to keep it quiet, as there was already enough panic going on, and a fear of a Japanese invasion of the mainland. They subsequently did invade the Aluetian islands off the coast of Alaska with about 20,000 men, before we threw them off.

The so-called bombing though, only consisted of a few small bombs attached to weather balloons, that drifted over the Western U.S. They started a few forest fires and two small boys were killed in Oregon when they went over to touch the balloons. Then a Japanese submarine later shelled California off the Santa Barbara coast, but their shells hit nothing. But thats the extent of it.

Hardly any monumental government conspiracy. :doh:

[Darth Tater]

4) We haven't gone back to the moon for the most simple of reasons. It's too damnd expensive. What cost a couple of billion then would cost trillions now. We would have to build a new rocket to match the Saturn Five since we have nothing available to lift the nessisary payload. (BTW, *If* China goes ahead with it's "plans" for a moonbase I would expect the country to be bankrupt in a few years).

You are talking about the US being bankrupt? We'd probably end up financing it (indirectly of course) like we did with German war debt after WW1. :laugh:

[Skins24]

Hoax Photos?

Taken by a 12 year olds telescope

Taken by a 14 year olds telescope

Found in Western Texas. (note: flag over 6 feet)

Real tough to recreate the Earth in this one

Southern Arizona

[Terry]

If it really was a hoax, then it's ongoing.

Even today we are laser ranging the moon continually. We shoot a highly focussed beam at reflectors set up on the moon, capture the return light, and estimate the distance down to a matter of centimeters.

Those reflectors had to be placed in the right locations precisely, then manually adjusted so that they point back to earth. It could only be done by astronauts on the surface of the moon communicating with scientists on earth as they 'tuned' the reflectors.

So for there to be a hoax, current scientists who get time using that laser ranging system so that they can test their theories on the earth-moon system, gravity waves, polution in the upper atmosphere, etc..., are either in on the scam, or being fed bogus numbers.

My mom used to tell me not to lie, and she said that one thing that happens is the you end up telling another lie just to cover the first lie, then that requires more lies, and pretty soon the whole house of lies collapses.

If the whole thing had been a fake, it would have collapsed long ago.

The one thing conspiracy theorists NEVER take into consideration is human weaknesses, frailty, ego, desire for money or fame, guilty conscience, gossip, or any of the myriad other reasons why someone would talk and a scam such as this would fall apart.

[gbear]

Hmmm,

I never realized they put another horizontal poll in the flag for those shots. Very cool. I would never have thought about that before getting to the moon.

Moon trip planned by Geof:

"Greeat moogly boogly guys we made it. Alright, somebody break out the flag. Okay, um guys, somebody is going to have to pose with the flag because it just doesn't look right. There's no way anybody back on earth is even going to be able to tell whose flag this is. Alrighty, now that we've got the flag thing sorted out, anybody have any pithy comments to be immortalized? I know, I should have thought about that beforhand, but I never thought we'd make it this far. Huh, what... you mean all of that was broadcast live to the world? :doh: Can I have a do over? I promise this time I'll say something meaningful to be remembered forever. "

[Yomar]

Suppose for a second the moon landing was a fraud...so what?

[OrangeSkin]

Suppose for a second the moon landing was a fraud...so what?

Well, for one, it would lead the American people to totally distrust our government, and two, it would discredit anything that we've done in the history of this country because it may have been a hoax...thirdly, it would probably lead to the eventual fall of the US because we'd be the laughingstock of the world.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Inmate, in the mars thread I never talked about mannedmission. I have no doubt that we could send an unmanned craft to the moon or to mars today. We may even be able to send a manned mission to the moon today. I am a doubting Thomas when it comes to us doing it in 69. And I don't care how many people work at Nasa. Only a small handfull would know what really happened. In reality less then 50 people and you can pull it off. And if these people were handpicked patriots willing to give there life to this country, you would have to torture them to get the info out of them.

Think about the state of our country in 69. We were losing Vietnam, we just went thru a decade of assinations that rocked this country to the core. It was felt we were losing the arms race due to Russian military and nuclear strength lies and propaganda.

The Gov. saw a nation that was starting to resent the vietnam war and our own soldiers. They saw the racial tensions heating up to the point of a nuclear meltdown.They really needed something to bring back a sense of national pride and unity. So they staged a moon landing, which created everything they wanted. They gave us a new set of supermen to idolize and hero worship. A new sense of national pride swept thru the nation. Little boys from all over the US wanted to be astronauts. I think what they did was great for our country. But I also think they should come forward and tell us the truth. Did it really happen?

The big problem is most of the people in the know are now dead. And even if one person stepped forward with the truth. That person would receive the warm welcome I got. No one wants change and are afraid even petrified of it. Even if it is change in a belief of something that happened over 30 years ago.

Sure, I am willing to think a man walked on the moon. But I am also willing to think it was a hoax.

[Skins24]

Oh...so it's one of those too good to be true things...

The government can never do anything right so to suggest they sent a person to the moon would be ridiculous.

Come on now, the government bringing national pride?? Please! It has to be fake.

Those billions of dollars must have went toward picture and movie production.

Those thousands of people who saw the rockets lifting off were either brainwashed or there was really nothing in those rockets.

And the speed at which they created this hoax was amazing!

I mean, the put to gether a set full of 100 foot rockets, modules dozens of feet tall, a whole new landscape, anti gravity machines, etc. in a matter of months!

And to top things off they have kept the hoax going for almost 30 years now! Yep that's our government...

Sorry to tell you this tommy, but no matter how you try to spin it, it doesn't add up. Maybe if you answer the questions (i.e., if you had the technology to create such a hoax, then surely you had the tech to send someone to the moon, so why not do it? or how do you explain the rocks they brought back? or how do you explain that unearthly bounce they had when they walked?) your statements wouldn't be so laughable.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

I didn't say the rocket didn't go up and men didn't splash down. They definately had the ability to put the men in a deep earth orbit and send a unmanned LM into a lunar orbit. The men just orbited earth till it was ok to re-enter and splash down. The LM sent back some nice pics to add realism. The only set that had to be built was of the moon landing area.

This also answers the russian questions. They tracked a rocket go up. They tracked the Lm go to the moon. They tracked the Lm head back to earth, which burnt up upon reentry. Then the capsule rentered and splashed down.

Show me a pic of something on the moon that was placed there by man. A picture from a civilian telescope or satellite. ie: the moon buggy with footsteps around it. At that point I must believe it. Untill then I will still think there was just as much of a chance to hoax it as to really do it. Sure it is far easier to blindly follow the leader without asking any questions, then to stop and ask a few questions.

I also want to know why did they use black and white film/camera for the landing area scenes? The gov. started to use color film about 1944 for many military purposes. Bomber crews and navy sub crews filmed there actions in color. Why would we spend so much money to get to the moon and bring black and white movie camera's? Why is every motion pic of them on the moon done that way? It would be alot easier to fake motion in B an W then in color.

Call me a doubting Thomas, I don't give a rat's arse. I want tangible proof we were there.