Mad Mike Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin mad Mike Not only was my father drafted, but my mother was, for a time, a socialist who did attend a peace march or two. TRUST ME, a large percentage of the protestors(then as now) did not merely want an "end" to the war, but were actively supporting(be it trips to Hanoi like Jane Fonda or Tom Hayden or Chomsky to coordinate propaganda) or rooting for a Communist victory. That people pretend otherwise only shows you that people will deceive so long as it achieves their objectives. In fact, that's Lenin's mandate. He was also the cat who said a "lie told often enough becomes the truth." Indeed, VI. Indeed. Yeah but I think most people have good intentions, at least the ones on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Bufford well, this just as easily could be flipped........ also....all the people who wanted to go to War because they wanted WMD but now are pretending that this is what they were after all the time...... they should apologize also. So because we didnt go into Iraq with shovels instead of guns the WMD's dont exist now? I mean, they found Military Aircraft by accident and aircraft are multiple times larger than any box of WMD's that could be buried anywhere or even removed from the Country: http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk155/buriedJets.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3116259.stm "WASHINGTON, Aug. 6, 2003 — American forces have found Russian fighter jets buried in the Iraqi desert, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in an Aug. 5 press briefing. "We'd heard a great many things had been buried, but we had not known where they were, and we'd been operating in that immediate vicinity for weeks and weeks and weeks . . . 12, 13 weeks, and didn't know they were (there)," Rumsfeld said. The secretary said he wasn't sure how many such aircraft had been found, but noted, "It wasn't one or two." He said it's a "classic example" of the challenges the Iraqi Survey Group is facing in finding weapons of mass destruction in the country. "Something as big as an airplane that's within . . . a stone's throw of where you're functioning, and you don't know it's there because you don't run around digging into everything on a discovery process," Rumsfeld explained. "So until you find somebody who tells you where to look, or until nature clears some sand away and exposes something over time, we're simply not going to know. "But, as we all know," he added, "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 if they are still that certain like you are. Then stopping the search is even more foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Take said shovels here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38581 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Thiebear Take said shovels here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38581 agreed, also keep and eye on Saudia Arabia and Egypt. I think they are lying to our faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 1, 2005 Author Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Bufford agreed, also keep and eye on Saudia Arabia and Egypt. I think they are lying to our faces. Agreed. Excellent Bufford. I love when liberals call for more action against countries like this. Welcome aboard . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 So, did anyone apologize and/or flip to the right side yet? I saw many losing arguments and some desperately clinging to the election is no big deal because we shouldnt have gone there to begin with "arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas So, did anyone apologize and/or flip to the right side yet? I saw many losing arguments and some desperately clinging to the election is no big deal because we shouldnt have gone there to begin with "arguments. We shouldn't have gone there to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Art Agreed. Excellent Bufford. I love when liberals call for more action against countries like this. Welcome aboard . well, that's because on my list of baddies...it went like this. 1. Osama (So, that was Afghanistan) 2. Syria 3. Saudi Arabia 4. North Korea 5. Iran 6. Egypt 7. Iraq 8. The Palestinian Territories Just because I thought Iraq was poorly conceived, planned and executed.... doesn't mean I don't think there are other countries in the region who are a much larger threat to America. At least that's my :2cents: Iraq has happened, so there is no use to crying over it "being". But if I think its been a nightmare because of the folks who are running it. Then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF We shouldn't have gone there to begin with. So no flip then? Bummer! Anyway, I found another article that actually mirrors Art's initial post. I know it will get some peoples feathers in a ruff, but I don't want it to inspire any bickering, only the merits (or percieved lack of) of what the author is saying. It is from a conservative web site. Please notice that he states that his problem is with the "Global Left" and not individuals who just side with the left. The left is worth nothing Dennis Prager (back to web version) | Send February 1, 2005 "Someone who does not know the difference between good and evil is worth nothing." -- Miecyslaw Kasprzyk, Polish rescuer of Jews during the Holocaust, New York Times, Jan. 30, 2005 It took a Polish rescuer of Jews in the Holocaust, cited this week 60 years after the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration and death camp, to best describe those people who cannot or refuse to know the difference between good and evil. They are "worth nothing." Since I was an adolescent, I have been preoccupied with evil: specifically, why people engage in it and why other people refuse to acknowledge its existence. As I have gotten older, I often find the latter group more infuriating. Somehow, as much as I don't want to, I can understand why a Muslim raised in a world permeated with hate-filled lies about America and Israel, and taught from childhood that God loves death, will blow himself up and joyfully maim and murder children. As evil as the Muslim terrorist is, given the Islamic world in which he was raised, he has some excuse. But the non-Muslims who fail to acknowledge and confront the evil of Muslim terror and the evil of those monsters who cut innocent people's throats and murder those trying to make a democracy -- these people are truly worth nothing. Unlike the Muslims raised in a religious totalitarian society, they have no excuse. And in my lifetime, these people have overwhelmingly congregated on the political Left. Since the 1960s, with few exceptions, on the greatest questions of good and evil, the Left has either been neutral toward or actively supported evil. The Left could not identify communism as evil; has been neutral toward or actually supported the anti-democratic pro-terrorist Palestinians against the liberal democracy called Israel; and has found it impossible to support the war for democracy and against an Arab/Muslim enemy in Iraq as evil as any fascist the Left ever claimed to hate. There were intellectually and morally honest arguments against going to war in Iraq. But once the war began, a moral person could not oppose it. No moral person could hope for, let alone act on behalf of, a victory for the Arab/Islamic fascists. Just ask yourself but two questions: If America wins, will there be an increase or decrease in goodness in Iraq and in the world? And then ask what would happen if the Al Qaeda/Zarqawi/Baathists win. It brings me no pleasure to describe opponents of the Iraqi war as "worth nothing." I know otherwise fine, decent people who oppose the war. So I sincerely apologize for the insult. But to the Left in general, as opposed to individually good people who side with the Left, I have no apologies. It is the Left -- in America, in Europe and around the world -- that should do all the apologizing: to the men, women and children of Iraq and elsewhere for not coming to their support against those who would crush them. That most Democratic Party leaders, union leaders, gay leaders, feminists, professors, editorial writers and news reporters have called for an American withdrawal and labeled this most moral of wars "immoral" is a permanent stain on their reputations. About 60 percent of the Iraqi people went to vote despite the fact that every Iraqi voter risked his or her life and the lives of their children, whose throats the Islamic fascists threatened to slit. Yet, the Left continues to label the war for Iraqi democracy "immoral" while praising the tyrant of Cuba. Leftists do so for the same reason they admired Ho Chi Minh and Mao Tse-tung and condemned American arms as the greatest threat to world peace during and after the Cold War. The Left "does not know the difference between good and evil." And that is why it is worth nothing. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/printdp20050201.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas So no flip then? Bummer! Anyway, I found another article that actually mirrors Art's initial post. I know it will get some peoples feathers in a ruff, but I don't want it to inspire any bickering, only the merits (or percieved lack of) of what the author is saying. It is from a conservative web site. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/printdp20050201.shtml I have to admit sfv, I'm awestruck. The political hypocrisy expressed over the past two days has been amazing to me. If it isn't hypocrisy, then it's a revelation, I just hope the rest of the world gets to share in it. Does no one realize that in the big scheme of things the welfare of the Iraqi people is just window dressing? If Saddam was not considered a global threat, and was torturing and oppressing his people would this day of come? Of course not. Because the same thing is happening in many other countries we choose to do nothing about because at this time there is no worldwide effect. (See Darfur thread) For example people always throw up that Saddam gassed his own people. That is a true statement, but it happened 16 years ago. Where was the public outcry then in this country? There wasn't any, and the reason is we didn't care at the time. Want another example before you throw out the Gulf War? The Kurds were an ally against Hussein in the Gulf War (for their own political reasons of course) and they gained considerable ground and power during. Of course when we left, we abandoned them. And left them with no remaining support military or otherwise. Hundreds were slaughtered just weeks upon our departure. Again was there a public outcry over here? Of course not, Saddam's army was contained and pushed out of Kuwait, there was nothing left to care about over there. Oppression or not, we achieved our only goal of containing Saddam. The welfare of the Iraqi people were not a concern. Well now it seems to be a focal point. And liberals are somehow deemed wrong for reacting to Bush's reasoning for going to war. Which was a war on terror, not the spreading of democracy and public welfare. Well if this is a "liberal confession" as the post initially states, then so be it. But it's the precedent now. And there should be no cowering behind calls for tax breaks and decreased federal government spending from this day on, when talking about the welfare of all people foreign and domestic. If indeed the feelings expressed the past two days have been sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF I have to admit sfv, I'm awestruck. The political hypocrisy expressed over the past two days has been amazing to me. If it isn't hypocrisy, then it's a revelation, I just hope the rest of the world gets to share in it. Does no one realize that in the big scheme of things the welfare of the Iraqi people is just window dressing? If Saddam was not considered a global threat, and was torturing and oppressing his people would this day of come? Of course not. Because the same thing is happening in many other countries we choose to do nothing about because at this time there is no worldwide effect. (See Darfur thread) For example people always throw up that Saddam gassed his own people. That is a true statement, but it happened 16 years ago. Where was the public outcry then in this country? There wasn't any, and the reason is we didn't care at the time. Want another example before you throw out the Gulf War? The Kurds were an ally against Hussein in the Gulf War (for their own political reasons of course) and they gained considerable ground and power during. Of course when we left, we abandoned them. And left them with no remaining support military or otherwise. Hundreds were slaughtered just weeks upon our departure. Again was there a public outcry over here? Of course not, Saddam's army was contained and pushed out of Kuwait, there was nothing left to care about over there. Oppression or not, we achieved our only goal of containing Saddam. The welfare of the Iraqi people were not a concern. Well now it seems to be a focal point. And liberals are somehow deemed wrong for reacting to Bush's reasoning for going to war. Which was a war on terror, not the spreading of democracy and public welfare. Well if this is a "liberal confession" as the post initially states, then so be it. But it's the precedent now. And there should be no cowering behind calls for tax breaks and decreased federal government spending from this day on, when talking about the welfare of all people foreign and domestic. If indeed the feelings expressed the past two days have been sincere. Kevin, I want to make the point that while we here are wallowing in partisan bickering, the Iraqi's are celebrating their freedom and thier first legitimate move towrads a democratic government in over 50 years. You mentioned political hypocracy, I challenge that statement with the fact that it really has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with saving the Iraqi's from the horrible lives that they were leading under a brutal dictator. You minimize that with almost every single post. This isnt about "we were right and you were wrong", although it's fun to joke around about it. It should be a great thing for everyone at this point that things are where they are in Iraq. I understand that you may not like republicans or even hate our President. That's fine with me! I think that every American should acknowledge that we are aimed in the same direction as the primary will of the Iraqi people and that we helped them in the grand scheme. As long as anyone wants to keep casting the "immoral war" stone, they will be teased and picked on for being blind to the real success that has been gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 So we did bring up that Saddam was a threat and Alqaeda was pissed that we were in Saudi Arabia doing the No-Fly-Zones above Iraq. And that they were shooting at us randomly when they thought they could get away with it. And that he gassed his own people, and we failed to help them once before so we owed them didnt we? And that he had weapons of Mass Distruction that "MAY" have been moved to two other countries based on their onw defectors and journalist/defectors in their countries. AND that the people are rejoicing in the streets with their new freedom. And you still don't get it. Kevintheprf: Which countries said it was a "Genocide" thus REQUIRING Action? France, Germany, Russia, China, US. Pick the above appropriate ones and then put your venom in that direction as they may deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas Kevin, I want to make the point that while we here are wallowing in partisan bickering, the Iraqi's are celebrating their freedom and thier first legitimate move towrads a democratic government in over 50 years. You mentioned political hypocracy, I challenge that statement with the fact that it really has absolutely nothing to do with politics and everything to do with saving the Iraqi's from the horrible lives that they were leading under a brutal dictator. You minimize that with almost every single post. This isnt about "we were right and you were wrong", although it's fun to joke around about it. It should be a great thing for everyone at this point that things are where they are in Iraq. I understand that you may not like republicans or even hate our President. That's fine with me! I think that every American should acknowledge that we are aimed in the same direction as the primary will of the Iraqi people and that we helped them in the grand scheme. As long as anyone wants to keep casting the "immoral war" stone, they will be teased and picked on for being blind to the real success that has been gained. Like I stated, if this isn't political hypocrisy(didn't you tease me about spelling once?), then it's a revelation. I just hope that this is the precedent of every president, democratic or republican. For example North Korea, their people are horribly oppressed, a good portion are starving, and there is no democracy. Not to mention the side item they actually do have WMDs. We now have a responsibility to attack and liberate North Korea in the coming years if what we celebrate today is sincere. Xenophobic or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by Thiebear So we did bring up that Saddam was a threat and Alqaeda was pissed that we were in Saudi Arabia doing the No-Fly-Zones above Iraq. And that they were shooting at us randomly when they thought they could get away with it. And that he gassed his own people, and we failed to help them once before so we owed them didnt we? And that he had weapons of Mass Distruction that "MAY" have been moved to two other countries based on their onw defectors and journalist/defectors in their countries. AND that the people are rejoicing in the streets with their new freedom. And you still don't get it. Kevintheprf: Which countries said it was a "Genocide" thus REQUIRING Action? France, Germany, Russia, China, US. Pick the above appropriate ones and then put your venom in that direction as they may deserve it. No offense Thiebear, I'm not sure of your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF Like I stated, if this isn't political hypocrisy(didn't you tease me about spelling once?), then it's a revelation. I just hope that this is the precedent of every president, democratic or republican. For example North Korea, their people are horribly oppressed, a good portion are starving, and there is no democracy. Not to mention the side item they actually do have WMDs. We now have a responsibility to attack and liberate North Korea in the coming years if what we celebrate today is sincere. Xenophobic or not. I don't think I've ever teased anyone on any thread about spelling. My fat finger syndrome precludes me from any mockery! If I did, however, I apologize. Why do feel that you are more qualified than the DOD, The President, NATO, etc to determine what nations are targeted by the US? I'm curious, is all. I know that I don't know even a pimple on Michael Moore's a$$ as compared to what the pros do. I don't second guess strategy because I simply don't know enough to profess any alternative. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas I don't think I've ever teased anyone on any thread about spelling. My fat finger syndrome precludes me from any mockery! If I did, however, I apologize. Why do feel that you are more qualified than the DOD, The President, NATO, etc to determine what nations are targeted by the US? I'm curious, is all. I know that I don't know even a pimple on Michael Moore's a$$ as compared to what the pros do. I don't second guess strategy because I simply don't know enough to profess any alternative. Do you? AHA! It was YOU! http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89681&highlight=Bardnik Anyway I'm just teasing with that, I'll respond to the rest later, gotta run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF AHA! It was YOU! http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89681&highlight=Bardnik Anyway I'm just teasing with that, I'll respond to the rest later, gotta run. I humbly bow in shame. You Busted me!!! Later! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF No offense Thiebear, I'm not sure of your point. You mentioned Dufar: What is the International Law on what happens if the UN votes that it was a "Genocide". What countries with a vote: Said it was a Genocide? What countries didnt? example: The US fails at IRAQ (Russia/France/China/UN blame the US) example: The French fail at Sudan (Russia/France/China/UN blame the US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 So Art, will you apologize if five years from now our troops are still bogged down in the desert of Iraq? One election does not a democracy make. I have hope that it will all work out, but have no confidence that it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 I will apologize if its more than 40k: See Korea/Germany as the examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 If what's more than 40K, I'm sorry if I'm iliterate, but I don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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