SnyderShrugged Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by TMat184 Everyone can say they are happy that Saddam is out of power in Iraq but I certainly won't sit here and champion this war. I continue to believe we had larger and more immediate threats out there. Don't you find it a wee bit disingenuous to say you are happy about Sadaam not in power, while still stating that you disliked the entire process that removed him? I have a hard time respecting anyone who can say that with a straight face. How in the heck would you have liked Sadaam removed then? Can't straddle that fence forever, it will make you bowlegged! I'd have to think that there are strategic reasons well beyond our capacity to understand, that could easily have accounted for the reason for going to Iraq first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Destino Only in right wing america can the reason for war be proven wrong.....and result in those who said so being asked to apologize. The reasoning for war was bogus. Bush was dishonest when he pretended war was a result of following the evidence, because he wanted to go from day 1. Rumsfeld wanted to bomb Iraq after 9/11 INSTEAD of afghanstan. So no you won't get an apology or any sort of admission. Just because the ends are good doesn't mean the BS that lead to them are all forgiven. Exactly. Thanks Destino. Originally posted by portisizzle Do me a favor, list those "larger and more immediate threats" out for me. Don't worry, the computer won't limit you post length. So go ahead, list 'em. Iran, North Korea, Syria (maybe), Saudi Arabia, and if you want to use Bush's backup reasoning (for when his original reasoning was probed to be BS), Sudan, too Originally posted by Painkiller and even though the Iranians admitted they are working on a innocent nuclear program, designed only for peaceful endeavors...why should we believe them? Maybe they are all crazy and they are actually making lawn chairs. I'm getting tired now, and I'm starting to get goofy. :doh1: :laugh: I feel the goofiness. I need to go to sleep. One note, while it may be for "peaceful reasons", I'm not so liberal that I'll believe them. If you think that they're not going to make nukes as soon as they can, then I have a really big sandbox for sale about 10 miles east of my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas Don't you find it a wee bit disingenuous to say you are happy about Sadaam not in power, while still stating that you disliked the entire process that removed him? I have a hard time respecting anyone who can say that with a straight face. How in the heck would you have liked Sadaam removed then? Can't straddle that fence forever, it will make you bowlegged! I'd have to think that there are strategic reasons well beyond our capacity to understand, that could easily have accounted for the reason for going to Iraq first. You know damn well what he means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Destino Only in right wing america can the reason for war be proven wrong.....and result in those who said so being asked to apologize. The reasoning for war was bogus. Bush was dishonest when he pretended war was a result of following the evidence, because he wanted to go from day 1. Rumsfeld wanted to bomb Iraq after 9/11 INSTEAD of afghanstan. So no you won't get an apology or any sort of admission. Just because the ends are good doesn't mean the BS that lead to them are all forgiven. Piss and moan, piss and moan. Yadda,yadda........bogus......yadda....chewey chomp.......pretend..........WMD...........cough.........Rumsfeld. You DO KNOW that us conservative are EATING THIS SH*T UP like its candy, right. I go to sleep some nights thinking about election night when Kerry and Edwards in the throws of defeat, must have had one hell of a Pepto Bismol crush. I sleep REAL GOOD those nights. In fact......:snore: .......I'm getting tired right now........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Chopper Dave You know damn well what he means. Yes, I do, and that is exactly my issue with his view. Sorry, but I believe the Iraqi citizens have spoken and they said..."Cool Beans!!! We want a democracy and thank the US for giving us this opportunity" The current Mayor of Bagdad suggested erecting a stature of President Bush today. Can't we all at least agree that the Iraq war, while not perfect, was successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Piss and moan, piss and moan. Yadda,yadda........bogus......yadda....chewey chomp.......pretend..........WMD...........cough.........Rumsfeld. You DO KNOW that us conservative are EATING THIS SH*T UP like its candy, right. I go to sleep some nights thinking about election night when Kerry and Edwards in the throws of defeat, must have had one hell of a Pepto Bismol crush. I sleep REAL GOOD those nights. In fact......:snore: .......I'm getting tired right now........ No offense intended, but you sound like a megalomaniacal idiot. Go get some sleep, because this post barely makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Chopper Dave Iran, North Korea, Syria (maybe), Saudi Arabia, and if you want to use Bush's backup reasoning (for when his original reasoning was probed to be BS), Sudan, too That list is really long. And the adversaries are MUCH MORE dangerous than poor little Hussy. I guess I see your point. Hmmmmmmm. NOT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas The current Mayor of Bagdad suggested erecting a stature of President Bush today. Can't we all at least agree that the Iraq war, while not perfect, was successful? That's pretty ironic, actually. Seriously though, while there are undoubtedly good things that have come from the war, IMO, and this is where we will and always will differ, the good doesn't outway the bad. I just don't think it has been worth all of the bad that's come from it. Additionally, I think one of the main reason that so many liberals disagree with the war was because, quite frankly, Bush has handled it like a total assh*le. When his original reasoning for going to war was shot down, we went in for other reasons. You disagree? You're un-American. Mission Accomplished. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. He's just been so smug and arrogant and unwilling to admit they were wrong in the first place. It's disgusting. And with my end-of-the-night rant, I bid you all adieu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Not only were the threats Dave listed more immediate we also have alot of problems here in OUR OWN country such as healthcare that we didn't need to dig ourselves deeper and deeper into deficit for young people such as Dave and I to pay for later on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReefa Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle That list is really long. And the adversaries are MUCH MORE dangerous than poor little Hussy. I guess I see your point. Hmmmmmmm. NOT!!! Party on, Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Chopper Dave No offense intended, but you sound like a megalomaniacal idiot. Go get some sleep, because this post barely makes any sense. Here let me dumb it down for you. Conservative are eating liberals lunch. And for dessert we get to see mealy mouth talking heads self destruct in front of our very eyes. And the "Piece de Resistance" would be listening to our liberal buddy's trying to keep the dream alive. I can not think of a better way to enjoy our victory then to watch liberals wallow in the slop they have been fed by their "party". :snore: Kerry, Edwards on the stage announcing they will not give up the fight until all votes are counted....... Snort,Snort.............:snore: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle That list is really long. And the adversaries are MUCH MORE dangerous than poor little Hussy. I guess I see your point. Hmmmmmmm. NOT!!! Are you high? Because you sound like you're high. I don't see why the list has to be any longer than that. If any of them were better targets, then we should have gone after them. The list only really needs to have one country on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Here let me dumb it down for you. Conservative are eating liberals lunch. And for dessert we get to see mealy mouth talking heads self destruct in front of our very eyes. And the "Piece de Resistance" would be listening to our liberal buddy's trying to keep the dream alive. I can not think of a better way to enjoy our victory then to watch liberals wallow in the slop they have been fed by their "party". :snore: Kerry, Edwards on the stage announcing they will not give up the fight until all votes are counted....... Snort,Snort.............:snore: You're what's wrong with this country. It's always us against them, isn't it? You know I really thought that maybe you'd become a non-assh*le. I guess I was wrong. Have fun eating that lunch. Wouldn't want you to choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by TMat184 Not only were the threats Dave listed more immediate we also have alot of problems here in OUR OWN country such as healthcare that we didn't need to dig ourselves deeper and deeper into deficit for young people such as Dave and I to pay for later on..... So what did we miss in Syria, North Korea, Iran, ... ... whatever other state Chops listed that just COULD NOT WAIT?????? I still want you list...... And Mr. Lib, talk to me about healthcare........What is the solution that you seek?? Government controlled healthcare??? Oh, and at 32, I am not looking for the government to make my grandkids pay my way for retirement. Maybe you should be looking at it the same way as well. Finally, please do a research project for us all here. Compare our deficit number TODAY against GDP, with say the same number in 1999, or 1995, or 1990, or 1985, or 1980. Then lecture me about our "deficit problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du7st Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas Can't we all at least agree that the Iraq war, while not perfect, was successful? How's this for an answer: no we can't. Do you really want to announce mission accomplished, or have we forgotten what happened last time we tried to do that in Iraq? Success in Iraq can and will only be measured by long term goals. One milestone was reached today but even that is a tiny one. Those votes still have to be counted and a victor declared. Considering this own country's problems with voting procedure, I think its funny that we are supposed to assume it will all go so smoothly in Iraq now. Even after voting and counting, there are many many more steps in the process that will take years to see through. Like, for example, getting thousands of troops home. Got to love this thread though. More proof of how interested neocons really are in uniting the country. Something goes positive for the country and its interests and somehow half the country is supposed to be upset by it. Makes LOTS of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Chopper Dave You're what's wrong with this country. It's always us against them, isn't it? You know I really thought that maybe you'd become a non-assh*le. I guess I was wrong. Have fun eating that lunch. Wouldn't want you to choke. With the title of the thread, I would expect a little respect given to our leader. I am sure there is none forthcoming. I am not an arsehole, just a little frustrated by the attitude that our country can do nothing correct unless a tax and spend liberal is in office. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Chopper Dave Stop there. Who are you to tell me what I need to grasp? What makes you such a high authority on the subject? We differ in opinion, and no matter what you think I need to grasp, I feel how I feel. Stop trying to impose your will upon others, because it strips you of all credibility. It really offends me that you would even waste your time creating an entire thread, an "I told you so" of sorts, to get people to apologize because they don't agree with you. Art, here's a newsflash from down here in reality: You're a smart, eloquent guy. That doesn't mean you're right on matters of fact, and it doesn't mean that anyone agrees with you on matters of opinion. Stop acting as if that's the case. Well, let me start here with pertinent replies to various statements since I've stepped away. CD, who I am is a man not 17 and more worried about getting in to Mary Jane Rottencrotch's pretty pink panties than paying attention to the world. Sorry, had to borrow a Full Metal Jacket line. You're a boy. I won't say you're an ignorant boy, because I don't think you are. But, you are a mislead boy. And you're a boy who confuses absolute, clear, unquestion fact rather than signing off on it and processing thoughts around it. When I tell you what you have to grasp it's for your own good. Because you're not getting what you have to grasp. And who I am to tell you is a person who knows substantially more than you. This born of being an adult. At 17 you don't appreciate those who know more. I didn't either. In a few years you'll understand exactly what I'm saying to you now when some child tells you that you'd better never tell him the truth about something he doesn't want to know the truth about. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 portisizzle, I don't even know how to respond to a seemingly drunk moron such as yourself. While I feel bad stooping down to namecalling you leave me no other choice. I have started to wonder how many times you were dropped on your head as a child "Mr. Con". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by method man Art, The only thing about Iraq that I support is our soldiers. Once the troops leave Iraq, it is going to become another extremist country, which will be dominated by the influence of Iran. I know MM. Keep failure alive. Whatever you do, keep failure alive. Witness success. Ignore it. Predict doom. Doom doesn't happen, don't sweat it, predict more doom. Doesn't happen? No worries. More doom. NEVER allow yourself to express the tiniest bit of optimism or hope. If you did that you might be like a 1960s era liberal. And I wouldn't know what to do with the intelligence and RIGHTNESS of one of them, except to say thanks. I'm so very glad today's liberals are not as difficult to deal with . Keep failure alive MM. One day, maybe it'll happen, and you too can post a thread trumpeting how you kept failure alive and it happened. And we can all marvel at it. Great day that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by du7st Got to love this thread though. More proof of how interested neocons really are in uniting the country. Something goes positive for the country and its interests and somehow half the country is supposed to be upset by it. Makes LOTS of sense. Unity should always be defined by supporting our country. We are facing the most capable and dangerous adversary the world has ever seen. Time for our population to grasp what is really going on here. It is our generations version of the cold war. Except this enemy cares not for the concept of mutually assured destruction. They only want chaos. So I ask you, what political party is unified behind this "cold war"? Since you seem so concerned about the concept of unity....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by Art Well, let me start here with pertinent replies to various statements since I've stepped away. CD, who I am is a man not 17 and more worried about getting in to Mary Jane Rottencrotch's pretty pink panties than paying attention to the world. Sorry, had to borrow a Full Metal Jacket line. You're a boy. I won't say you're an ignorant boy, because I don't think you are. But, you are a mislead boy. And you're a boy who confuses absolute, clear, unquestion fact rather than signing off on it and processing thoughts around it. When I tell you what you have to grasp it's for your own good. Because you're not getting what you have to grasp. And who I am to tell you is a person who knows substantially more than you. This born of being an adult. At 17 you don't appreciate those who know more. I didn't either. In a few years you'll understand exactly what I'm saying to you now when some child tells you that you'd better never tell him the truth about something he doesn't want to know the truth about. . So Art, because he does not agree with you he is "mislead"??? Because hes 17 his opinion also needs to be taken with a grain of salt right? I'm sorry Art but bringing his age into this when he easily displays adult intelligence is a weak weak argument you would be best suited to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by DjTj I'm not sure anybody in this thread has been against spreading freedom and democracy - perhaps Chopper Dave, who would only take military action when it's an eye for an eye. Even that I think is defensible because there are plenty of non-military ways to spread freedom and democracy. Most of the other liberal posters have criticized tactics and specific policies. There is a lot of islamic fundamentalism in the world, and there are a lot of authoritarian governments. Whether or not Iraq was the most expedient choice of places to start is certainly an open question. There were infinitely many courses of action we could have taken at the time we went into Iraq, and a great many of them would have been consistent with a doctrine of spreading democracy and freedom. Many of those would even have been consistent with attacking our Islamist enemies. We could have invaded Syria, Lybia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or even Indonesia, where we could strike fundamentalist enemies. We could have invested heavily in alternative energy research to wean ourselves away from middle eastern oil. We could have forced Pakistan's hand and put all our resources into catching Bin Laden to make an example for the rest of the terrorist world ... We had a lot of choices, so there is a lot to nitpick. As far as Kennedy being considered right-wing today, I think you forget about an era where the Civil Rights Act was passed and Medicare was created. On the domestic and fiscal side of things, Kennedy is far left of today's politicians. The foreign policy shift is far more reflective of a world where we are now the dominant superpower. I think conservatives and liberals are still finding their place in this new world. After all, it was Clinton that ran his 1992 campaign under a theme of democracy enlargement and Bush that ran his 2000 campaign criticizing nation-building. There's no easy liberal/conservative pigeonhole for Kennedy to go into in the present day. DJ, Whether Iraq was an appropriate place to START or not may be up for debate to some extent. But, we're not starting in Iraq now. We're WELL INTO the game in Iraq now. So, let's address the question of import NOW. No matter what you felt of Iraq as the starting point in dealing with islamic fundamentalism, you'd agree the terrorists have shown us just how correct that choice was by MAKING Iraq THEIR central point in the war on terror themselves. They did this. I remember when Bush said terrorists hated us because of our freedom and democracy and liberals snickered and said, "No they don't. They want freedom and democracy too." Then, the terrorists say, "War on democracy." It's like Bush is either WRITING their copy, or happens to know what they don't want. They don't want freedom and democracy because that would make a fundamentalist state impossible. The terrorists have declared Iraq their most important fight. So, no matter what you felt at one point when we began, you now admit, do you not, that it is the place now to combat the enemy we're fighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by method man we cannot afford to invade anymore nations, because it is just piling on to the national debt. this generation is leaving our generation and many future ones a mountain of debt to conquer. Buzz. Wrong answer friends. You see, if you're concerned about debt -- something liberals aren't REALLY concerned about -- you'd immediately limit spending to demonstrate your level of care. Until you do, cries about the deficit ring untrue, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by TMat184 portisizzle, I don't even know how to respond to a seemingly drunk moron such as yourself. While I feel bad stooping down to namecalling you leave me no other choice. I have started to wonder how many times you were dropped on your head as a child "Mr. Con". I can help you with the response required here. Give me the list of problems greater than Iraq, as you see them. Or if you would like to avoid debate, continue with your weak diversions.....anyway you like it is fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Unity should always be defined by supporting our country. We are facing the most capable and dangerous adversary the world has ever seen. Time for our population to grasp what is really going on here. It is our generations version of the cold war. Except this enemy cares not for the concept of mutually assured destruction. They only want chaos. Well said, and very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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