skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Now, I may take some flak for this post. But that is ok. Today was my most painful game as a Skins fan. Not because we lost, but because of what we have lost, with stubborn decision making and bad coaching. Gibbs came out today to give Brunell one more shot, and suprise, suprise, he failed miserably. Finally, what we fans have been seeing for weeks, Gibbs realized today when Brunell throw behind a wide open Coles on 4th and 3. But, beyond Gibbs's complete and utter failure to make proper personel decisions. His game time decision making is ATROCIOUS. Why did we go for that 4th and 3??? Punt, hold them deep and play field positon. Why did we do the ONSIDE kick?????????? We still had a timeout and the two minute warning. If we kicked it and held them, which I'm sure we would have since they would have definitely run 3 times on their side of the field, we stop them and get the ball back at our 30 or 40, instead of our 10. WHY IS THERE NO SHUTGUN?????????? Gibbs is being totally stubborn. Welcome to football in 2004--occasionally, you need a shutgun formation, like, for instance, when you're attempting to run a two-minute offense. The coaching has been miserable, the play-calling miserable, and the personel decisions have been miserable. Changes were made today that should have been made weeks ago, and it's cost us the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 you won't get much flak for this because most people realize this. I think Gibbs is going to be humbled by what just happened, and he will be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Ignatius J. you won't get much flak for this because most people realize this. I think Gibbs is going to be humbled by what just happened, and he will be better for it. I hope you are right. His loyalty/stubborness has ruined what potentially could have been a very good season. The important thing now is for Gibbs to allow Ramsey to grow as NFL qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Jeezus, I think it's more than a little naive to think that Gibbs was the only thing standing in the way of a good season. This team has issues beyond the coaching, my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I have been a Gibbs defender since I got on ExtremeSkins, but I have to say that I agree with some of the things you are saying Skins4Eva. Brunell looked terrible. That much was obvious. But Ramsey, while looking like he had a much stronger arm, didn't look great either. He almost threw about seven INTs. That's just not acceptable. I chalk that up to a few things: 1. Lack of practicing with the first team 2. A lot of pressure trying to come back from a major deficit 3. A really complex offense with a ton of motion and audibles 4. Rust (or not having played in a game for 6 weeks) The one thing that I do fault Gibbs for is not putting Ramsey in earlier in the season. I think we can all agree that Ramsey is a High Risk/High Reward QB--maybe that not what Gibbs wanted. But that has to be better that a low risk/low reward. Anyway, at this point the fact that a change has been made at QB is at best moot. All the 'Skins have to do now is act as a spoiler given our upcoming schedule and our current record. Is this season over? No--but it's pretty close. I just wonder how much closer to .500 or to a winning record we'd be if Ramsey had been in there the whole time. With all that said, for the mistakes he's made at QB and arguably at WR (given lack of use with McCants/Jacobs overuse of 50/50), Gibbs has also done some amazing things. Bringing in GW and CP were great moves. I think a lot of us expected Gibbs to be the 'Perfect Answer'--something that's both impossible and an unjustified expectation. Considering how long he's been out of the game and how much it's changed, I'm still in Gibbs' corner notwithstanding his mistakes. He's got another year or two of a grace period before I think he's lost it. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 So far through 9 games, Gibbs looks like a guy who is outmatched. I'm surprised by that. Not surprised that he'd be rusty, but surprised that our offense is no better now than it was week one. I've been waiting each week for the game to tell me, "ok, Gibbs is officially back." I'm still waiting. For the first time, I'm starting to have doubts. It doesn't get much uglier than it was today folks. That shouldn't happen in week 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I just questioned why he started the game off with almost NOTHING but passes??...Seven out of the first nine offensive plays were passes, and THIS coming on the heels of a 6/17, 58 yard outing against Detroit, and against one of the worst rushing defenses in the league!!! Why take the ball out of the hands of your best offensive player, and keep putting it into the hands of your worst offensive player again and again??... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 kleese, our offense is actually far improved over the old hunk o junk we saw unearthed in tampa. The running game is clicking, when gibbs makes the changes he made to the running game to the passsing game, we'll start winning games consistantly. I don't expect it to happen overnight, but I expect gibbs to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Ignatius J. kleese, our offense is actually far improved over the old hunk o junk we saw unearthed in tampa. The running game is clicking, when gibbs makes the changes he made to the running game to the passsing game, we'll start winning games consistantly. I don't expect it to happen overnight, but I expect gibbs to work on it. I'd like to agree with you here--but given our upcoming games, I think the best our offense is going to look is efficient--not dominant. My only hope is that by the end of the season, on offense, we aren't: 1. Dropping easy passes. 2. Turning the ball over. 3. Failing to convert 3rd downs 4. Passing for less than 200 yards If we can look efficient out there, then we can be great next season. I really believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I never said dominant, and, I wasn't neccesarily talking about this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by Ignatius J. I never said dominant, and, I wasn't neccesarily talking about this season. I wasn't disagreeing with you--just restating what you had to say in my own words. I think we basically agree with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Gibbs does look lost, but there are too many cooks in the kitchen--I mean, I can't even tell who's calling the plays. Don Breux is always over next to Gibbs yelling and looking like an idiot. Bugel is over there wispering into Gibbs's ear. I mean, the whole strategy is beyond me at this point... Like someone else said, we opend the game passing against this defense--took the ball out of Portis's hands and put it into the hands of our worst offensive player. Our offense has looked VANILLA all season--it's unacceptable and it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 the Brunell move was a costly boondoggle. but beyond #8 there are some other problems on offense we have to address and indeed Gibbs and Bugel may have made some additional mistakes in the personnel area that lead to our being this vulnerable. we failed to properly evaluate our backup offensive linemen. Kenyatta Jones was a complete bust. The guy was so lacking in NFL ability he couldn't even stay on the roster. This should have been ferreted out earlier on. We should never have been in the position of trusting a player that was cut from NE because of obvious failings. at wide receiver I think the inconsistency of #87 has hindered this team for some time. Gardner has dropped a lot of balls over the past 3 years. Yes, he has had some great catches as well, but as the designated possession receiver that makes the critical first down plays you have to be a guy with hands like glue. then there is the issue of Rod's problems with penalties. I have never seen a receiver that gets as many illegal motion, holding and offensive interference calls as this guy has. it's nice to see a guy willing to give up his body to make a block in the run game but at some point you would think somebody would instruct #87 on the proper techniques to get the job done. On the offensive line currently I am curious as to whether it would make sense to move Ray Brown inside to OG and move Dockery out to RT? I don't see Ray holding up for the remaining 7 games at RT. It's asking too much of a guy who at 42 missed training camp and most of the preseason. I don't think Dockery has had a great season at RG. In fact the interior protection has been spotty. What the club has been able to do is run the ball. This line simply lack the quickness and athleticism outside of LT and LG to be a good pass blocking group. Bugel and Co. have to do a better job of reconstructing this group. The return of Jansen will help. But the development of a youngster inside at OC with size and a more athletic RG will help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 I agree with that entire analysis, but what's just unbearably frustrating is the extent to which poor coaching decision making has cost us games. I mean it was night and day out there with Ramsey, his arm is just so much stronger than Brunell's, it's incredible that this offensive coaching staff stuck with Brunell for so long. I'm basically at a loss for explanations, and I no longer have the desire to defend Gibbs and Co. he looks lost and overmatched every week, and the offensive play-calling and game plan in general is horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I do not think Gibbs has cost us the season at all. Yes, he made a mistake with Brunell. Lots of coaches have made poor decisions with personell. Raymer hasn't been a beast at all, but he's been ok. Cooley, Thrash and Portis have provent o be excellent pickups. All gibbs decisions. Washington, Griffin, Springs, Clark, Taylor, Salvea, Evans, Warner.........Williams' pickups most likely, but I highly doubt that Gibbs just sat back and said Greg, go get your guys...... So one guy out of all those signings. Not good that it is likely the most important postion, but I don't fault Joe for it at all. He was right to bring in a vet, someone who has performed well, played in the playoffs and could lead this team if need be. So it didn't work out. Now we have to depend on the other guys that we decided to keep from the old regime and get them some repore with the new guys. If Gibb's game management is so atrocious, than why are we not being blown out by other teams? Why are we able to come back at the end of games and come close to winning? This team has showed improvement. Special teams, Defense, the running game and routes are getting better. WR's are hot one game and then cold the next. We get flags on the most crucial moments in a big drive. We have suffered serious injuries, but yet we are still in all theses games. How do you think Spurrrier would have handled all of this? You want to blame Gibbs for all of the teams miscues, unfortunate plays, penalties, then you are being wholly unfair. Blame him for the Brunell thing, fine. Blame him for the early mistakes in clock/game management. Fact is that since the Chi. game, we have played much better, except at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Originally posted by IAMBG I do not think Gibbs has cost us the season at all. If Gibb's game management is so atrocious, than why are we not being blown out by other teams? Why are we able to come back at the end of games and come close to winning? BECAUSE OF DEFENSE---don't make me have to explain this to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Dockery at RT=a dead Skins QB. That'd work with Brunell in there but now that we've got Ramsey on the field I'd kind of like to keep him upright. We need to invest in a C and LG in the offseason. As for now, I might be inclined to see what Wilson or Molinaro has got depending on how they've looked in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Bulldog, I've said this to you before, and it's really about time you listen. Gardner is not a posession reciever. Maybe back in gibbs' day, you would have guys like gardner make a bank on little outs and curls all day, but not today. Laverneous coles is a posession reciever. He runs through and in between defenders to get open underneath the safeties. That's a possession reciever. You are absolutely right about the offensive line, but your analysis of our recievers is all wrong, because you refuse to acknowledge gardner's strengths. You keep shoving the square peg in the round hole while blameing the square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 And, IAMBG, who do I blame for the lack of a shotgun formation??? I am absolutely certain that Brunell would have been more effective at shotgun, especially given the state of our O-line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I wanted Patrick in as much as much as anyone. But to say Gibbs has cost us the season is STUPID! So what if he's made some errors (which everyone does) that have cost us some games. His decisions over the years also have won us 3 superbowls. So shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 well, if you are thinking that Rod Gardner with his safety speed is actually our deep receiver than the Redskins are in some real trouble before we see what Jacobs and McCants can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 , I love gibbs to death, but the way he has handled the offense this season has been horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 hey skins4eva, chill man. You're right here, so just take the high ground and don't throw the second punch. Just edit your post, and keep it cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Sorry Skins26, I'm just very upset by this team right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 bulldog, say what you want, but he gets into the air. He can make leaping catches when given the opportunity. Remember that route that killed champ bailey? You go deep, hoping for single coverage, if you get it, you underthrow the ball a little bit so the reciever knows to throw on the brakes and jump up for the ball? That pass is where gardner will make his money as a solid number 2 in the league. If not here, then somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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