China Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/r_sports_tkwilbon051704.htm Washington, D.C.: Hey fellas, 2 questions: 1. How much better would Detroit be with Carmelo? They took a big gamble on Milicic and it hasn't paid off. 2. Would you please tell all Skins fans that their team will only improve 1-2 games with Gibbs? It was more a publicity stunt than anything else! Love the afternoon piece on Sportstalk 980 Tony!! Signed, An Eagles fan in DC Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Good question. But I think that Larry Brown would not have played Carmelo very much at all. Larry and Phil Jackson don't play rookies. And you can look it up. I know it sounds preposterous b/c we know how good Carmelo is now right out of the box, but Darko might be this good too. We won't know for a couple of years now. As for your 2nd question/comment, I don't agree w/ your assessment of the Redskins. I think that Joe Gibbs is a winner in everything and anything he does. And I think the Redskins will win 10 games this year. That doesn't mean they are going to even make the playoffs, but I think they will win 10 games. I think Gibbs would have won 9 or 10 games w/last year's game. The NFL is a coach's league now more than ever. W/all the changing faces b/c of free agency and salary cap drama putting together a team quickly is paramount. And Gibbs was so brilliant during the strike years in 82 and 87. There is no coincidence the Redskins won Super Bowls in those seasons. I don't have any rooting interest in the Redskins. I'm from Chicago. I root for my team the Bears. Period. But, I'm a fan of Joe Gibbs and I got see evidence to the contrary before I go against him. --Mike More on 'skins... Houston, Tex.: Given the number of veteran QBs that are circulating now (or recently) (Warner, Garcia, Collins) did the Redskins jump too in signing Brunell? Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Absolutely. How could you prefer Mark Brunell over Jeff Garcia? I think the Redskins jumped too soon b/c I think that Ramsey is a perfectly acceptable starting QB. I'd even take a shot a Kurt Warner if they hadn't signed Brunell. --Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 :laugh: Where is Bubba now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I felt the same way Wilbon did. Gibbs could have gotten another 4-5 wins from last year's team. What's to prevent at least nine wins this year? I don't think that's shooting too high. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by China An Eagles fan in DC Another Eagles fan in DC? How many street cleaners can DC possibly need? :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo22 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by SmashMouth Another Eagles fan in DC? How many street cleaners can DC possibly need? :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :laugh: too funny :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Typical for a Iggles fan to have that perspective. The Eagles fans are somehow hoping that is all the 'Skins improve, else they may not make the play-offs this year. Everyone is their right mind knows the Redskins will be better than 7-9 for Christ's sake!! The Iggles can try to deny it, but it's gonna happen...the 'Skins will win the NFC East! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I do think Gibbs could have beat the Eagles and Cowboys at least once, and swept the Giants last year. The Eagles were reeling from injury and controversy when we faced them in week six. A half-decent team would have punched them hard in the mouth and never let them in the game. The first meeting with the Cowboys, Dallas was practically handing us the game. A half-decent team would have been up 17 points at halftime, and it would have never been close after that with Carter and Hambrick leading the charge. The Giants had three first-time-ever-starting rookies on their OL when we lost to them. Gibbs would have won all those games, in my opinion. However, the division won't be such a cake-walk this year. The Eagles have upgraded their WR corps and added a serious pass rusher on defense. The Cowboys have a year of Parcells under their belt, and Coughlin will have the Giants ready, despite whatever the papers say in May. I suspect Gibbs will have a tough time breaking even in the division his first year back. Although even that would be an improvement over the past, well, 14 years. I would put 10 wins on the top end of my prediction for this season, with 8-9 more likely. But it's nice to see Wilbon get his head out of Jordan's posterior long enough to give Gibbs some support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma :laugh: Where is Bubba now :whoknows: haven't seen him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 See, I feel like we maybe we did jump to soon on the QB. While I think Burnell is a good and capable QB I think we gave him too much money and moved to quickly. I think that Garcia would have been just as good, if not a better move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 Don't read too much into TKs football opinions. He was a strong backer of Spurrier too. Also, Garcia is a West coast QB, and doesn't have as much arm strength as you would want in Gibbs offense for the deep throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yank Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by ntotoro I felt the same way Wilbon did. Gibbs could have gotten another 4-5 wins from last year's team. What's to prevent at least nine wins this year? I don't think that's shooting too high. Nick Given the number of starters from last year's team that are being replaced this year: Defense: 1 or 2 DTs DE MLB OLB CB FS Offense: RB FB/HB TE C QB (maybe) That's about half the starting squads. OK, Champ is a good player and so is Ramsey (who may start anyhow). But I don't know how anyone could think that Gibbs could make chicken salad out of what we had last year. Alot of us saw the real talent level on last year's team though some kept the canard that we had the most talent in the division - good hype by Parcells ... Gibbs didn't buy it and cleaned house. Based on their performance this year - which should be much better than last - he may not be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Hindsight is always 20/20 The Skins secured probably one of the best of a lot of veteran FA QB's in March instead waiting to see what was available in June. Garcia, Collins, and Warner were not a thought in Febuary when they pursed a trade for Brunell. another bonus, getting Brunnell so soon, has him working with the team starting in March instead of waiting until the beginning of training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by jrfriedm See, I feel like we maybe we did jump to soon on the QB. While I think Burnell is a good and capable QB I think we gave him too much money and moved to quickly. I think that Garcia would have been just as good, if not a better move. Although I'm not a fan of either of the two, Garcia is a younger Brunell...he would have been a much better choice for the 'Skins...while their physical attributes are similar, Garcia is what, 3-4 years younger than Brunell? That's enough for me right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 It was no surprise to anyone that Warner and Garcia would be available. Collins, maybe, but he's not even mentioned. I have to think Joe and co. knew the possibilities and went for the guy they wanted. Joe is not one to be caught off guard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by xanathos19 Garcia is what, 3-4 years younger than Brunell? That's enough for me right there. 5 Garcia, Jeff QB 6'01'' 195 born 02/24/1970 8 Brunell, Mark QB 6'01'' 221 born 09/17/1970 Garcia is OLDER by a few months, is smaller and has had a history of back injuries It was no surprise to anyone that Warner and Garcia would be available. when the Skins started looking at Brunell, The Rams hadn't resigned Bulger, and he could have been signed to a RFA contract by another, so Warner was not a sure release. Garcia getting cut was a surprise especially after losing Owens, many thought the 49ers would rework his contract, and it wasn't thought he would be released until the week he was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappaluvacee Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Hindsight is always 20/20 another bonus, getting Brunnell so soon, has him working with the team starting in March instead of waiting until the beginning of training camp. That is the real reason the FO jumped the gun on Brunell. At the time he was the best QB capable of starting that we knew we could get via trade in time for the first mini-camp. I'm not at all disappointed in the decision. That's like saying we should have waited to get Kerry Collins. No one knew wo was going to be available or by what date. The Skins secured the best available QB at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfchamp1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by yank Alot of us saw the real talent level on last year's team though some kept the canard that we had the most talent in the division - good hype by Parcells ... Gibbs didn't buy it and cleaned house. Based on their performance this year - which should be much better than last - he may not be done. They had better talent last year than the year before when they won 7 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfchamp1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 You don't need the best QB. You need the right QB for your team and your system. Brunnel is the right QB. A few days ago, I watched Brunnel take apart the great Ravens superbowl Defence on NFL Network. If he still has half the arm and mind he had then, step aside and watch him go nuts under Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 5 Garcia, Jeff QB 6'01'' 195 born 02/24/1970 8 Brunell, Mark QB 6'01'' 221 born 09/17/1970 Garcia is OLDER by a few months, is smaller and has had a history of back injuries Ouch, Atty. bubba makes a strong counter-argument. Case closed. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I like Mark over the rest of the QB's. Kerry Collins, is talented but seems to be way to streaky. Garcia, is a injury risk and I think has questionable arm strength. And Warner, I think is done. His Pocket Presence is done. I mean he had maybe the best Pass Protection in the League, and still held the ball for to long. Brunell, will be a great starter for us for about 2-3 years. Win his SB Ring and hand over the playbook to Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 As Bubba owns the misinformed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I like having Brunell this should help Samuels have a great year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsofwashington Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by China Don't read too much into TKs football opinions. He was a strong backer of Spurrier too. Also, Garcia is a West coast QB, and doesn't have as much arm strength as you would want in Gibbs offense for the deep throws. I agree. Add the fact that I think Brunnell will be a better mentor, but that is just my gut feeling. Warner, Collins...no way! They may be quality, but they have their silver linings like all players do. In the end Brunell Ramsey is the strongest 1-2 punch I think we could have mustered without putting ourselves in serious risk of having no quality starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Originally posted by ntotoro I felt the same way Wilbon did. Gibbs could have gotten another 4-5 wins from last year's team. What's to prevent at least nine wins this year? I don't think that's shooting too high. Nick When you consider that a good majority of our losses were by 7 points or less last season, I feel that Gibbs would have probably pulled more than most of those out as winners - maybe 5 or 6. Let's also take in account the differences between Gibbs & Spurrier. Spurrier thought he could make the League adapt to him & his system of college ball. Gibbs, on the other hand, knows that in order to succeed in this League, he MUST adapt to it! Also, Gibbs understands the need & importance for the run game, whereas Stevo decided that the run game wasn't as glamorous & threw the run game out the window. Spurrier didn't need Davis, Gibbs would have NEVER let him go! With all that in mind, I think Gibbs could have gotten at least 5 or 6 more wins out of last season, especially against the Panthers who used Stephen Davis to beat us! One last point. Last season we had the 6th hardest schedule in the League. Where does our schedule rank this season. I'm willing to bet not quite as high. When you put all that math together, I can easily see 10+ wins this season. Last season is over & we can't change the results, regardless of how much we compare or want to. But there are already drastic changes in this team & their attitude is the biggest noticable change. Brunell was a good choice because of his arm & poise. Garcia gets rattled to easily when he starts to get hit alot, whereas Brunell seems to get more determined the more he gets hit. I think the Brunell move was a good one. We will see in the end of it all, but when you look at past history, look at Doug Williams. A lot of people questioned that move too. But the washed up QB from Tampa Bay who spent the majority of his career on his back not only did well here, he won a Super Bowl! I trust Gibbs enough to know that he knows what he is doing! :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkboy22 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 its funny how may -training camp we have all these doubts and hopes. the thing that keeps me smiling is this....Joe gibbs signed a 5 year deal, and he has said he intends to Fulfill that contract. gibbs is a man of his word. he may be close to the vest on what he is going to do, and who he is going to keep or cut, but when it comes to his word with the fans, I believe he will be here for that entire 5 years...barring health issues or anything family related... I think its on this year, and am willing to sit through a 6-10 season while gibbs adjusts, but am thinking 10-11 wins this season, maybe a wild card... I believe i predicted philly finishing 3rd this year, and im sticking to it... giants last...i think we will be battling Dallas for top honors in the nfc east. If any you get the chance...read gibbs' book racing to success...his philosophies and how he chooses he people is the key. and yes i believe with all of the close losses last year, gibbs could have won at least 5 of those games...Gibbs teams RARELY shoot themselves in the foot like the past 14 years... I havent been on here as much for i am content in what is going on... Gibbs is a FEROCIOUS competitor and his work ethic is unmatched PERIOD. I think ramsey is our future, and I am fine with the Brunell decision. the amount of money is a concern, but i see gibbs is learning the cap now as well...... It will be exciting to watch the skins again. I have been a fan since 1980-win, lose, or really suck.... im here, and I BELIEVE>.... GO SKINS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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