The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[OtisDriftwood25]

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

During the first quarter of the game yesterday I saw Mahomes and Jackson doing amazing athletic things and said to myself "screw Drake Maye, I want a QB who can do these things". Then January Jackson returned and I'm back wanting the more traditional pocket passer.  

Man people have high hopes. I’ll take a home NFC Championship loss over the first 6 years of our new QB career. I’m not a Lamar backer at all but do we forget what we have been for past 30 seasons?

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Definitely seeing more big name mocks lately with us going Daniels. A little concerning to me. But if that is who Peters prefers so be it. They get paid well to make these decisions. 

 

The athletic running QBs often tend to shoot up mock draft boards as the draft nears. Sometimes they're right (Anthony Richardson), sometimes they're wrong  (Malik Willis). 

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Man people have high hopes. I’ll take a home NFC Championship loss over the first 6 years of our new QB career. I’m not a Lamar backer at all but do we forget what we have been for past 30 seasons?

I don't think it's wrong to want a QB who can actually deliver in January.  

[ThatNFLChick]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The athletic running QBs often tend to shoot up mock draft boards as the draft nears. Sometimes they're right (Anthony Richardson), sometimes they're wrong  (Malik Willis). 

 

Malik got a bunch of hype because 1. People are crazy 2. His arm. Everyone was raving that he had a massive arm and got fooled again, just like with Zach Wilson, because of his arm strength at his pro day. 

 

In reality teams didn't actually buy or fall for it though because his Liberty tape was not good and they played nobody. He was the 3rd QB taken after both Picket and Ridder (who also stunk) and he was taken in the 3rd round so...teams never fell for that hype

 

 

Edited January 29 by ThatNFLChick

[Ghost of]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't think it's wrong to want a QB who can actually deliver in January.  

Brock Purdy had better stats and higher QBR than Lamar Jackson this year and it seems fairly clear that his defense is not as good (still very good) as Baltimore's this year. Yet Purdy gets ___ on, again and again. Is it because he's Mr. Irrelevant? or? I know when I hear pundits talk about the two, I notice some strange patterns.

 

Did you know that Lamar is 0-4 in postseason play when his defense surrenders more than 13/14 points? Yesterday, Mahomes and KC were shut out in the second half and Ravens could still not overcome...at home...as the #1 seed.  This isn't the first time Lamar's lost as #1 seed either.

 

It's a joke that he'll have as many MVPs as Joe Montana and more than other great QBs (Brees). 

Edited January 29 by Ghost of

[OtisDriftwood25]

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't think it's wrong to want a QB who can actually deliver in January.  

How many quarterbacks in the AFC deliver in the playoffs over the past 6 years? Mahomes and Burrow. Let’s learn to crawl before we walk. I agree with the sentiment but I’ll take Jackson as our quarterback any day compared to our past 30 years.

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't hate having a Lamar Jackson as my QB, but we'd be battling history. QBs that are that reliant on their mobility to open up the rest of their game just don't have that much sustained success and tend to struggle big time in the playoffs against good Ds/coaches that can take a lot of that away.

 

I wanna win Super Bowls and typically Super Bowls are won by primarily passing QBs, although having mobility to create is a great bonus(see Mahomes but also guys like Rodgers and Wilson).

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 

No doubt Daniels is a superior athlete but hes also rail thin and his frame will get him killed. And Daniels doesnt have Jackson’s quick twitch wiggle or elusiveness(again noone does, dudes a unicorn). 

I notice impressive twitch and agility in J. Daniels, not quite elite like Jackson, but not too far off. Early on, I hesitate to compare him to RG3 in terms of running, as RG3 lacked the quick movements and lateral agility. Daniels excels at avoiding hits near the sideline, but shows hesitancy when navigating between or near the hashes, lacking the ease of sliding and finding open spaces in the middle of the field.
 

I wouldn't be surprised if Daniels' short-area speed measurements are on par with or close to Jackson's.

 

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The athletic running QBs often tend to shoot up mock draft boards as the draft nears. Sometimes they're right (Anthony Richardson), sometimes they're wrong  (Malik Willis). 

 

Indeed, I've been on this tangent for a decade emphasizing the value of an elite dual-threat player. However, the league's increasing athleticism at that position has somewhat diminished the value of such players.

 

It's noteworthy that elite dual-threat individuals drafted in the first round seldom disappoint.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, OtisDriftwood25 said:

How many quarterbacks in the AFC deliver in the playoffs over the past 6 years? Mahomes and Burrow. Let’s learn to crawl before we walk. I agree with the sentiment but I’ll take Jackson as our quarterback any day compared to our past 30 years.

 

The only QBs in the AFC to go to a Super Bowl since 2004 (thats 20 years folks)

 

Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Peyton Manning
Joe Burrow

Joe Flacco

[Warhead36]

The ideal QB is a pocket passer who has enough athleticism and mobility to buy time and create but can also pick up cheap yards/first downs when nothing is available. You wanna avoid QBs that are overly reliant on their mobility to create passing opportunities because as you saw from Jackson yesterday, once that is taken away(either because physically they can't anymore or because a good D takes it away) their passing effectiveness just plummets completely.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Malik got a bunch of hype because 1. People are crazy 2. His arm. Everyone was raving that he had a massive arm and got fooled again, just like with Zach Wilson, because of his arm strength at his pro day. 

 

In reality teams didn't actually buy or fall for it though because his Liberty tape was not good and they played nobody. He was the 3rd QB taken after both Picket and Ridder (who also stunk) and he was taken in the 3rd round so...teams never fell for that hype

 

 

 

Um. Did you notice I said "mock draft boards" and not "team boards"?

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

The only QBs in the AFC to go to a Super Bowl since 2004 (thats 20 years folks)

 

Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Peyton Manning
Joe Burrow

Joe Flacco

Missing Ben Roethlisberger but yeah the AFC was just dominated by only a select few guys

[Ghost of]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Missing Ben Roethlisberger but yeah the AFC was just dominated by only a select few guys

Looking at the NFL though, I see a league of mediocre QB play with inflated numbers. Not back in 2009-10 necessarily but definitely now.  No one can beat Mahomes, even when they shut him down partially because no one has a QB who can elevate his play enough in the big moments. Brady, Mahomes all performed in higher pressure moments and could elevate their teams (or do just enough to not kill the team when they were struggling.  Allen has the talent but something seems off about them and he does make some big mistakes at times.  Maybe Herbert will be that guy to dethrone now that Harbaugh is there and they have a real defensive coordinator. Or Stroud with another year under his belt. 

[woodpecker]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't hate having a Lamar Jackson as my QB, but we'd be battling history. QBs that are that reliant on their mobility to open up the rest of their game just don't have that much sustained success and tend to struggle big time in the playoffs against good Ds/coaches that can take a lot of that away.

 

I wanna win Super Bowls and typically Super Bowls are won by primarily passing QBs, although having mobility to create is a great bonus(see Mahomes but also guys like Rodgers and Wilson).

True. In this era of running QBs, the best of them—Lamar, Hurts, Josh Allen, Fields, Kyler Murray—have no titles. You can go back 20 years and not find a running quarterback who won the Super Bowl. Maybe Russell Wilson, but I think even he was more of a passer.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

True. In this era of running QBs, the best of them—Lamar, Hurts, Josh Allen, Fields, Kyler Murray—have no titles. You can go back 20 years and not find a running quarterback who won the Super Bowl. Maybe Russell Wilson, but I think even he was more of a passer.

I mean you did have QBs who had mobility like Young, Favre, Elway, etc. But like I said their mobility was a bonus and was used primarily to create more throwing opportunities. They weren't overly reliant on it to the point where if they didn't have it, their passing game would fall apart.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The ideal QB is a pocket passer who has enough athleticism and mobility to buy time and create but can also pick up cheap yards/first downs when nothing is available. You wanna avoid QBs that are overly reliant on their mobility to create passing opportunities because as you saw from Jackson yesterday, once that is taken away(either because physically they can't anymore or because a good D takes it away) their passing effectiveness just plummets completely.

Disagree. I mean, is there such a thing as an ideal QB by simply viewing the player in isolation without any other factors? 

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Looking at the NFL though, I see a league of mediocre QB play with inflated numbers. Not back in 2009-10 necessarily but definitely now.  No one can beat Mahomes, even when they shut him down partially because no one has a QB who can elevate his play enough in the big moments. Brady, Mahomes all performed in higher pressure moments and could elevate their teams (or do just enough to not kill the team when they were struggling.  Allen has the talent but something seems off about them and he does make some big mistakes at times.  Maybe Herbert will be that guy to dethrone now that Harbaugh is there and they have a real defensive coordinator. Or Stroud with another year under his belt. 

 

Burrow is the only one to have beaten Mahomes but the Bengals couldn't get it done in the Super Bowl. 

 

I don't know about Herbert. He is a great QB but I am starting to feel like he has Trevor Lawrence syndrome where they are just not clutch and kind of fold when the lights are the brightest. I thought things might change with Trevor since they got a new coach but it didn't really. We'll see about Herbert and Harbaugh. Herbert's first two years were so good but he definitely hasn't been as productive his last two years.

 

Edited January 29 by ThatNFLChick

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean you did have QBs who had mobility like Young, Favre, Elway, etc. But like I said their mobility was a bonus and was used primarily to create more throwing opportunities. They weren't overly reliant on it to the point where if they didn't have it, their passing game would fall apart.

And Elway lost several Super Bowls, before finally winning a couple late in his career on the back of a good defense and running game. You can go all the way back to Fran Tarkenton if you want, running quarterbacks win a lot of games just not the Super Bowl.

[OtisDriftwood25]

Just so people don’t get it twisted I am a pocket passing quarterback guy. Duel threat quarterbacks make it easier to inflate offensive numbers during the regular. They also lead to more wins. In terms of the Daniels/Maye conversation, if I thought Maye was Mahomes or Allen I would take him in a heartbeat. For a 3 year starter there just seems to be something off with him. I would say he’s just not clean enough for me to bang the table on. A lot more process to go through.

Edited January 29 by OtisDriftwood25

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

And Elway lost several Super Bowls, before finally winning a couple late in his career on the back of a good defense and running game. You can go all the way back to Fran Tarkenton if you want, running quarterbacks win a lot of games just not the Super Bowl.

Truthfully, not many QBs secure Super Bowls, and I find it to be a somewhat lazy metric.

 

However, in today's game where many quarterbacks can run, Purdy's three second-half runs proved to be game-changers, setting him apart from Goff. 

[Koolblue13]

Lamar wasn't bad yesterday. I think the play calling was desperate and cost them. You're the top running team and on 3rd and 1 you're throwing 30 yard passes? It was just dumb.

 

They also need to sell out this draft and move up for a true WR1 or sign Mike Evans or both.

[wit33]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Lamar wasn't bad yesterday. I think the play calling was desperate and cost them. You're the top running team and on 3rd and 1 you're throwing 30 yard passes? It was just dumb.

 

They also need to sell out this draft and move up for a true WR1 or sign Mike Evans or both.

Greg Roman wins that game, just saying  

[ntotoro]

25 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

How many quarterbacks in the AFC deliver in the playoffs over the past 6 years? Mahomes and Burrow. Let’s learn to crawl before we walk. I agree with the sentiment but I’ll take Jackson as our quarterback any day compared to our past 30 years.

 

I don't care about the past 30 years anymore, I care about the next 30. A QB with his skillset isn't the key. Gets a lot of praise, highlight clips and oohs and aaahs during the regular season, predictably falls apart in the postseason.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Greg Roman wins that game, just saying  

Agreed.

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I don't care about the past 30 years anymore, I care about the next 30. A QB with his skillset isn't the key. Gets a lot of praise, highlight clips and oohs and aaahs during the regular season, predictably falls apart in the postseason.

This is a similar fate most great QBs face year in and year out. It’s not only reserved for the elite dual threat guys. 

Edited January 29 by wit33