The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CommanderDOOM]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Why would Favre care about what Rodgers does? It is not like Favre is the owner and Rodgers is taking him to the woodshed. 

 

Everyone ****ed and whined when Brett held GB hostage while seemingly having an eye on retirement.

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

He has his own drama he created and now he watches DramaRodgers.  Not talking about money just the way the two went about it.  Agreed with what you said but just curious.  That's all.    

 

The only drama is the one you are trying to create. 

[Conn]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Remember when it was the WR's that were the prima donnas...

Elite QB’s are the backbone upon which the modern NFL is built and literal billions are made. If the league’s salary structure were a free market they’d be the highest paid athletes on the planet by a long shot. I’ll never hate on a guy getting his just so a billionaire can have even more. These guys earned their position and money even if the games in the media are annoying. I solve that by not paying attention to it beyond the level of interest I have.

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

The only drama is the one you are trying to create. 

Not really.  Two different scenarios; two different drama boys. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Wait, so Rodgers is going to demand a new contract even though he has 2 years left on his current deal?

 

I see almost no way GB can give Rodgers a huge new contract, give Adams a huge new contract, and give Valdes-Scantling a huge new contract while they're already $33 million over the cap.

 

And if they do somehow manage to pull that off by backloading the living hell out of those deals, then in 2 years they'll probably be $100 million over the cap and will have to completely and utterly clean house and start over.

 

Yeah that was part of the Rusinni interview that I mentioned a few days ago, which is he wants 50 million a year. 

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Elite QB’s are the backbone upon which the modern NFL is built and literal billions are made. If the league’s salary structure were a free market they’d be the highest paid athletes on the planet by a long shot. I’ll never hate on a guy getting his just so a billionaire can have even more. These guys earned their position and money even if the games in the media are annoying. I solve that by not paying attention to it beyond the level of interest I have.

Yeah I get the whole capitalism thing employee getting their just due from the employer.

The difference for me with football is the employee and employer have millions of fans being held hostage by silly drama. Just freaking say you want to play for them but want "this salary and bene's for this length of time". Do the negotiating at a table...not through wees of BS drama that the media accentuates.  If you don't want to play there or don't want to play with that coach or you want a bowl of green M&M's every day at your locker...just say so

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah I get the whole capitalism thing employee getting their just due from the employer.

The difference for me with football is the employee and employer have millions of fans being held hostage by silly drama. Just freaking say you want to play for them but want "this salary and bene's for this length of time". Do the negotiating at a table...not through wees of BS drama that the media accentuates.  If you don't want to play there or don't want to play with that coach or you want a bowl of green M&M's every day at your locker...just say so

The real problem is that everything is a 24/7 news cycle these days. It used to be a small blurb in the paper about a contract dispute, people would have their opinions but it wasn’t being talked about and reported on constantly to the point of fan fatigue. Now it is, and it’s a viable way to apply pressure unfortunately. Any tool that can be weaponized for negotiating will be when that much money is at stake, by both the players’ factions and the teams. All you can really do is tune it out imo. The lowest common denominator sports media wins when the coverage is what you’re talking about.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Conn

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

The real problem is that everything is a 24/7 news cycle these days. It used to be a small blurb in the paper about a contract dispute, people would have their opinions but it wasn’t being talked about and reported on constantly to the point of fan fatigue. Now it is, and it’s a viable way to apply pressure unfortunately. Any tool that can be weaponized for negotiating will be when that much money is at stake, by both the players’ factions and the teams. All you can really do is tune it out imo. The lowest common denominator sports media wins when the coverage is what you’re talking about.

Media definitely wins it and is killing it with mini tidbits of BS pulling at the fans heartstrings. Same though for the players and teams not just honestly stating what they want.

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah that was part of the Rusinni interview that I mentioned a few days ago, which is he wants 50 million a year. 

 

Ok thanks for confirming.

 

I don't see how it happens. They're $33 million over the cap and also have two receivers who want big paydays, including Adams wanting to be the highest paid WR in the NFL. And I can't see Rodgers agreeing to stay there if they let those guys walk.

 

I know there's cap sorcery that can be done, but this seems extreme. Even if they manage to backload a ton of it, within 2 years it will be due and they'll have to pretty much get rid of everyone.

[DWinzit]

So happy the combine is finally here. These are the QB's to be at the combine. I put the top 6 which seem to be a given with my guess as their draft order. Yup, I am thinking Howell could fall which could be a good thing for Washington.

 

Zappe has been listed mostly as the next guy, which QB is going ahead of Zappe as the 7th QB?

Quarterbacks

• Jack Coan, Notre Dame
• Matt Corral, Mississippi (3)
• Dustin Crum, Kent State
• Kaleb Eleby, Western Michigan
• Sam Howell, North Carolina (5)
• Cole Kelley, Southeastern Louisiana
• D'Eriq King, Miami
• EJ Perry, Brown
• Kenny Pickett, Pittsburgh (1)
• Brock Purdy, Iowa State
• Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati (4)
• Carson Strong, Nevada (6)
• Skylar Thompson, Kansas State
• Malik Willis, Liberty (2)
• Bailey Zappe, Western Kentucky

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Bullock agrees with me Mariota is better than Trubisky.   Naturally that means he is right.😀

 

 

[VirginiaVibes]

 

[Mrshadow008]

 

chad on a roll tonight 

[VirginiaVibes]

4 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

 

chad on a roll tonight 

 

No offense to him but I'll believe Breer, Ian Rapaport and Adam Schefter who said there has been no real movement on the Wilson trade front - he hasn't requested one and they doubt he goes anywhere.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's a balancing act that's been talked about to death by agents-personnel guys over the years. Some players like the longer term security, some do not and prefer the short term contracts.  You are acting as if this dynamic doesn't exist.   I do agree that durable QBs who are in the prime would likely benefit by betting on themselves and in turn on their durability.  But clearly not everyone sees it like that. 
 

 

My talking points are for QBs only, they clearly operate much differently than other positions, so it’s not about players in general. I’m saying the QB signing shorter term deals was on the rise, Mahomes and Allen went against this trend. The longer term deal does not maximize earnings for the good to elite QB. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Big time guaranteed money like Allen and Mahomes got was ground breaking.  The guaranteed money is often the main plot line in football contracts because those contracts without them give the team leverage not the player.  If you do it the other way around the leverage goes to the player.

 

How cannot it not be groundbreaking, the NFL continues to be a cash cow, the cap projects to explode in the coming years, and they both project to be Hall of Famers. The guarantees traditionally are paid out early on in contracts and substituted as salary for the player, providing the organization increased leverage and value in the later years of a contract.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Injuries happen in the NFL.  So one way to avoid it being catastrophic to the team is to not have much guaranteed money so at some point depending on how the contract is worded you can cut your losses without it crippling your team going forward. 

 

The Alex Smith injury is a great example.  The buffoon GM Bruce Allen who refused typically to give more than two years of guaranteed money to any other player -- in order to lure Alex here (and some say thumb his nose at Kirk's agent) gave Alex 4 years worth of guaranteed money.  Alex didn't even finish a full season combined for that 4 year deal, yet he got paid almost fully for that time regardless.  Good fo Alex so no complaint from me -- but kudus to his agent for getting him all that security.   Mahomes and Allen more or less have double the guaranteed money that Alex got -- so they got even more security.

 

I suppose they are worried about a career ending injury, doesn’t seem likely to me. The guaranteed dollars typically decline later in a deal. Admittedly, I don’t remember how it works for both in the later years of their deals.
 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mahomes could talk all day long about what he gave up.  but its nothing like Brady who gave up in real time at that moment money on the table. 
 

He did give up money, I’ve never said anyone will do what Brady has done, only that there will be some influence on guys who are legacy and team driven. No way getting around paying big money to elite talents, even Brady got a big deal following his rookie deal. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Brady's thing wasn't that he took a staggered contract where he got a big time pay day and in real time he set the market but sacrificed by taking a longer contract that severed his ability to maximize his contract going further.  Brady left money on the table right from the jump.  It wasn't him getting paid something obscene but hey 5 years later it might not look that obsence as the cap rises.

 

He did stagger his deals from year to year at times. He was the highest paid QB in 2006, he made sure to get his money early on. He was always hovering around QB 5-10 in terms of pay for much of his career with Patriots. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Your point seems to center on there is nothing to see there as for players wanting a large amount of guaranteed money in a long contract.  You think every player, all of them, want to play it like Kirk Cousins.  But if you listen to ex-agents like Joel Corry who represented players, you'll find that every player see its like that.  Some players do.  Some players don't.  I agree that Mahomes and Allen probably left money on the table when all is said and done.  But that's the sacrifice you often make to get obscene somes of guaranteed money. 
 

 

The QB, not players. Signing shorter term deals to maintain leverage has been a recent trend among QBs, Mahomes and Allen went against this trend. If you’re good to elite, it’s clear signing short term contracts is best to maximize your personal earnings.
 

My belief is the QB loses their good to elite value when they choose to play the money game this way. This applies more to average to good QBS, but have continue to explore idea of the elites providing SB contender returns while being paid 15-20% of the cap in a season. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stafford wanted to leave the Lions.  He wanted to go to the Rams.  He wasn't a FA.  The Rams paid about 45 million on the cap for both Goff-Stafford last year.  Stafford was no martyr.  And now they are talking contract.  You seem to think he will give them a deal.  I bet he maximizes his contract.  Will see.

 

Guarantee he plays out this final year at the same number. He agreed to be a financial asset for two seasons, then we’ll see what the extension will be.  I’m not making any predictions on what he’ll take or not take in his extension, but he did forfeit 10-20mil by choosing to go with the Rams. Other teams would’ve had extensions and new money on a platter if he chose the money route, Washington included. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If your point is any staggered contract is a sacrifice than yeah he will do that, just about EVERY Qb signs a staggered contract.  Heck ditto just about every other position for that matter.

 

Nope, not at all. That’s common place. Though, staggering money on a longer contract is easier than a shorter contract. This is especially true when you can entice the player with new money when the guarantees are void in the contract. The team benefits most in a longer term deal. 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, VirginiaVibes said:

 

 

Oh for ****s sake. Seriously? They're thinking of going with Trubisky as their actual QB and not just a bridge for a 1st round rookie? Great. So we get a bust castoff from two teams and then take a flier on a later round QB who statistically has about a 5% chance of doing anything of note.

 

This should go over well.

[wit33]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock agrees with me Mariota is better than Trubisky.   Naturally that means he is right.😀

 

 

My recent intrigue with Trubisky is believing he’s a legit dual threat QB and that was never tapped into much at all in his career. Purely off stats and memory, it seemed most of his rush yards were broken plays. Maybe providing him with a dual threat scheme can uncap a level of consistent football. 
 

He had one 400 yard rushing season and that was by far his best season as a starter: threw for 24tds, rushed for 29 first downs, and team went 11-3. 

[zCommander]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock agrees with me Mariota is better than Trubisky.   Naturally that means he is right.😀

 

 

And I have been saying this since the beginning.

I wasn't fan of Trubisky at all. This is why I kept on saying if you are going to go this route then I rather just see TH instead. 

[Redskins 2021]

I can't imagine them rebranding with Trubisky.

[MrJL]

I'd be quite happy with a second round QB to go with a free agent QB

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Oh for ****s sake. Seriously? They're thinking of going with Trubisky as their actual QB and not just a bridge for a 1st round rookie? Great. So we get a bust castoff from two teams and then take a flier on a later round QB who statistically has about a 5% chance of doing anything of note.

 

This should go over well.

 

many scouts are ranking these guys as not actually first round talents.  Elevating them to the first round cause that's where you take your QB of the future doesn't actually make them that.  So you trust that these teams aren't going to reach and your guy will still be there,  And if they do start reaching, you do what we did to get Montez Sweat, package your second and another pick to move back into the first to get our guy

 

Speaking of Sweat, maybe we're just learning from 2019.  Where we probably could have drafted Sweat where we drafted Haskins, and still picked Haskins in the second and kept our 2020 second

[Mrshadow008]

FWIW 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I'd be quite happy with a second round QB to go with a free agent QB

 

many scouts are ranking these guys as not actually first round talents.  Elevating them to the first round cause that's where you take your QB of the future doesn't actually make them that.  So you trust that these teams aren't going to reach and your guy will still be there,  And if they do start reaching, you do what we did to get Montez Sweat, package your second and another pick to move back into the first to get our guy

 

Speaking of Sweat, maybe we're just learning from 2019.  Where we probably could have drafted Sweat where we drafted Haskins, and still picked Haskins in the second and kept our 2020 second

 

That's fine, as long as we're prepared for the almost certain fact that the 2nd round QB will never do anything. The success rate for QBs taken after the 1st round is abysmal.

 

And we don't actually know what many scouts are saying. We've had one or two reporters claim they talked with an unnamed official who said they didn't have any of the guys as 1st rounders, but nothing beyond that. 

 

And whatever we did with Sweat and that 2nd round pick wouldn't have made any difference. At the end of the day you need a QB. Without one, you're basically just lost in the wilderness of other average teams who have no QB.