PFF Rankings: Top 32 players in each position (so far) - updated w/ unit rankings (WRs, Secondary, and RBs)

[Koolblue13]

 

4:00 and 6:20 are good examples. He is so good at holding the POA, then shedding blocks the second before the RB hits the lane and making the tackle. I cant wait to see how much better he gets. He really has a chance to be a special run defender.

[dyst]

Dancing Bear is such a good name for Daron. Guy is massive but so light on his feet. He was right there in stride with Sweat and Chase on strip/fumble/TD play.

[Havenless]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:24 AM, Koolblue13 said:

I think PFF has Allen and Payne ranked as they do, because they value pass rushing a lot more than run defense or eating blocks. Typical fan focused stuff.

Eagle’s Brandon Graham is ranked really high every year, and he’s basically a run specialist. I think they’re pretty even on those; though in the NFL today the pass is prominent

Edited May 29, 2021 by Havenless

[Berggy9598]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:48 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Hes probably my favorite player on that line, so I love watching him eat blocks and hold the line down. It's pretty amazing, but I wouldn't call taking on two blockers, without being moved, so other guys can chase, hit, shoot gaps and sack the QB exciting comparatively. 

I think a 320 lb guy with barely any body fat breaking down in the open field like a linebacker is very exciting. 

[mistertim]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:12 PM, Anselmheifer said:

I still see him posting at least one 10-12 sack year. It's going to be great for the DL to play with an offense that isn't totally inept, and with an improved secondary. 

 

I think it's more likely that Ioan does that than Allen. When healthy Ioan has been by far our most effective pass rushing DT and that's including him being double teamed more than our other interior guys were. I think he's much more underrated than Payne or Allen. Maybe it's because he was a late round pick?

[Koolblue13]

ES, champions of the back up.

[mistertim]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

ES, champions of the back up.

 

Are you referring to Ioan?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

ES, champions of the back up.

Yeah, which back up are you referring to?

[Koolblue13]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Are you referring to Ioan?

I'm referring to your comment saying he's doubled more than anyone and the best pass rushing IDL. Paynes job is to be doubled and Allen is the best pass rushing IDL. He's top 5 in the league in QB pressures. I really like Iaonnidas. But your post just wasn't accurate. 

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Yeah, which back up are you referring to?

It's a theme here, but see above.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm referring to your comment saying he's doubled more than anyone and the best pass rushing IDL. Paynes job is to be doubled and Allen is the best pass rushing IDL. He's top 5 in the league in QB pressures. I really like Iaonnidas. But your post just wasn't accurate. 

It's a theme here, but see above.

 

You might be underselling him a bit.

 

I think this was from the 2019 season:

 

NFL Interior Linemen Pass Rush Productivity Rankings

1. Aaron Donald (Rams) 8.7

2. Chris Jones (Cheifs) 8.5

3. Calais Campbell (Jaguars/Ravens) 8.0

T4. Matt Ioannidis (Redskins) 7.7

T4. Javon Hargrave (Steelers/Eagles) 7.7

 

 

This covers the combined 2017-2018 seasons:

 

 

[Koolblue13]

28 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You might be underselling him a bit.

 

I think this was from the 2019 season:

 

NFL Interior Linemen Pass Rush Productivity Rankings

1. Aaron Donald (Rams) 8.7

2. Chris Jones (Cheifs) 8.5

3. Calais Campbell (Jaguars/Ravens) 8.0

T4. Matt Ioannidis (Redskins) 7.7

T4. Javon Hargrave (Steelers/Eagles) 7.7

 

 

This covers the combined 2017-2018 seasons:

 

 

Saying that Allen is better, is not under selling Iaon. Allen is pretty awesome. Saying Payne gets doubled more isn't under selling, it's true. Im a huge fan of Iaon. Go Temple. He's a beast, especially from LDE where most of his sacks came from. If he comes back and plays even better than Allen or Payne, awesome. At least we're not talking about Settle anymore. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Saying that Allen is better, is not under selling Iaon. Allen is pretty awesome. Saying Payne gets doubled more isn't under selling, it's true. Im a huge fan of Iaon. Go Temple. He's a beast, especially from LDE where most of his sacks came from. If he comes back and plays even better than Allen or Payne, awesome. At least we're not talking about Settle anymore. 

 

You said Allen was top 5 in QB pressures and indicated that thinking Ioannidis could be at that level should be chalked up to fans overvaluing the backup. To me, that's underselling his productivity (as well as pretty much dismissing that viewpoint as not being rooted in anything other than fan emotion). He may not be as far away as you were thinking.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Califan007

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You said Allen was top 5 in QB pressures and indicated that thinking Ioannidis could be at that level should be chalked up to fans overvaluing the backup. To me, that's underselling his productivity (as well as pretty much dismissing that viewpoint as not being rooted in anything other than fan emotion). He may not be as far away as you were thinking.

I know what I said. Last season Allen was better. The year before, Iaon was better and for the same reason. 

 

If anything, having him back in the rotation and if they stay healthy, our line is going to be insanely good. Iaon should net us a great draft pick in 2023.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

9. WILLIAM JACKSON III, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

Washington possessed one of the better defenses in the NFL in 2020; Jackson’s addition should only improve it, giving them a No. 1 cornerback who will allow them to play more man coverage if they desire. Jackson burst onto the scene with a 90.4 coverage grade in his first season of action back in 2017. He allowed just 30 receiving yards on 359 coverage snaps across his final 11 games that season.

Jackson hasn’t quite reached those lofty heights in the three years since, but he is coming off his best statistical season since 2017, with just 52% of the passes into his coverage being completed in 2020.

 

26. KENDALL FULLER, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

Fuller was back in Washington for the 2020 season following a two-year stint in Kansas City. He had spent the vast majority of his time in the slot across the first four years of his NFL career, even dabbling at safety with the Chiefs in 2019. However, his return came at outside cornerback for the Football Team in 2020, where he put up impressive coverage numbers at his new position. Fuller allowed just 53% of the passes into his coverage to be completed with four interceptions and nine pass breakups.

It doesn’t hurt that Washington can feel comfortable playing him at multiple positions in their secondary, either.

 

 

FYI, Darby came in at 29th.  So that's a massive upgrade for us at CB1 according to PFF.

[HTTRDynasty]

And at safety:

 

20. KAMREN CURL, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

A seventh-round rookie, Kamren Curl was one of the steals of the draft a year ago, one of the standout rookies of the season. What was even more impressive was the development he showed over the season, with his overall PFF grade jumping from 53.1 to 74.4 from the first half of his season to the second. Curl could be primed for a big sophomore campaign.

 

28. LANDON COLLINS, WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM

Collins isn’t that far removed from a genuine Defensive Player of the Year kind of season, but he has declined sharply since that spectacular 2016 season. Collins hasn’t been the same player in Washington as he was at his best with the Giants, but he has never had a better defense around him than he will have in 2021. If he can’t show that play again this year, then it really may never happen again.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm referring to your comment saying he's doubled more than anyone and the best pass rushing IDL. Paynes job is to be doubled and Allen is the best pass rushing IDL. He's top 5 in the league in QB pressures. I really like Iaonnidas. But your post just wasn't accurate. 

 

 

A team's defense doesn't dictate who on their DL gets double teamed; the other team's offense and game plan dictates that depending on who they think needs it. If doesn't matter whether their "job" is supposedly to get double teamed. The other team's offense doesn't say "Hey, their defense says this guy's job is to get double teamed...so we better do so."

 

And unless ESPN is just completely lying and making stuff up, what I said is accurate. This was 2019, when Ioan was healthy all season. Look where he is in double team rate and win rate compared to Allen and Payne.

 

And Allen had a very good pass rush grade last season, but he didn't get home very often. Ioan does and had 8.5 sacks in 2019...and that was while being the most double teamed guy out of the 3.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by mistertim

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

A team's defense doesn't dictate who on their DL gets double teamed; the other team's offense and game plan dictates that depending on who they think needs it. If doesn't matter whether their "job" is supposedly to get double teamed. The other team's offense doesn't say "Hey, their defense says this guy's job is to get double teamed...so we better do so."

 

And unless PFF is just completely lying and making stuff up, what I said is accurate. This was 2019, when Ioan was healthy all season. Look where he is in double team rate and win rate compared to Allen and Payne.

 

And Allen had a very good pass rush grade last season, but he didn't get home very often. Ioan does and had 8.5 sacks in 2019...and that was while being the most double teamed guy out of the 3.

 

 

So 1 tech and 3 tech isn't a real thing? All DTs just try and get up field on every play? Come on man. 

 

Most of Ioannidis sacks came when he lined up at LDE also. Not DT. 

 

Allen and Ioannidis have played great when the other one has been injured. One big reason for that is Payne eats blocks. 3 tech. 

 

I'm a huge fan of Ioannidis. Love me a Temple Owls 5th round steal and hope he dominates and stays healthy this year. All three of those guys are awesome. 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So 1 tech and 3 tech isn't a real thing? All DTs just try and get up field on every play? Come on man. 

 

Most of Ioannidis sacks came when he lined up at LDE also. Not DT. 

 

Allen and Ioannidis have played great when the other one has been injured. One big reason for that is Payne eats blocks. 3 tech. 

 

I'm a huge fan of Ioannidis. Love me a Temple Owls 5th round steal and hope he dominates and stays healthy this year. All three of those guys are awesome. 

 

It's objective reality that Ioan was by far the most double teamed of the 3 in 2019 and by far the most effective in pass rushing...including Allen who ostensibly plays the same position with the same role. Unless ESPN really was literally was just making **** up.

 

And of course 1 and 3 tech are things, but that doesn't always automatically mean that the 1 tech gets double teamed all the time if the offense doesn't deem it necessary. It's just their gap assignments. Their gap assignment doesn't necessarily mean the offense automatically double teams them, especially if they deem another guy on the line is more deserving of being doubled.

 

Aaron Donald is primarily a 3 tech as well...do you think teams say "welp...he's a 3 tech, so we can't double him...we're supposed to double the 1 tech according to the football book, so we'll do that"?

 

So again, it's just the reality of the situation that in 2019 Ioan was way more doubled than Allen and at the same time a way more effective pass rusher.

Edited June 1, 2021 by mistertim

[PartyPosse]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

So again, it's just the reality of the situation that in 2019 Ioan was way more doubled than Allen and at the same time a way more effective pass rusher.

Mostly because he’s so ridiculously strong. I feel like all of his TFL were straight blue-collar bulrushes.

[Koolblue13]

54 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

So again, it's just the reality of the situation that in 2019 Ioan was way more doubled than Allen and at the same time a way more effective pass rusher.

Yes, in 2019. Allen was also injured that entire year. 

 

The premise that Ioannidis is better than Allen and gets double teamed more than Allen, must be lost on the coaching staff and everyone else who knows Allen is the starter though. 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes, in 2019. Allen was also injured that entire year. 

 

The premise that Ioannidis is better than Allen and gets double teamed more than Allen, must be lost on the coaching staff and everyone else who knows Allen is the starter though. 

 

The premise that Ioannidis is better than Allen wasn't lost on other teams' offenses or our own coaching staff, judging by the number of snaps as well as the above noted double team and win rate.

 

Ioannidis 2019: 

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    378
PASS RUSH SNAPS    449

 

Allen in 2019:

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    319
PASS RUSH SNAPS    400

 

Allen in 2020:

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    331
PASS RUSH SNAPS    473

 

 

The idea of "starter vs backup" is clearly pretty much meaningless here. Even when Ioan was out last season, Allen still only played about as many snaps as Ioan did in 2019.

[The Sisko]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

It's objective reality that Ioan was by far the most double teamed of the 3 in 2019 and by far the most effective in pass rushing...including Allen who ostensibly plays the same position with the same role. Unless ESPN really was literally was just making **** up.

 

And of course 1 and 3 tech are things, but that doesn't always automatically mean that the 1 tech gets double teamed all the time if the offense doesn't deem it necessary. It's just their gap assignments. Their gap assignment doesn't necessarily mean the offense automatically double teams them, especially if they deem another guy on the line is more deserving of being doubled.

 

Aaron Donald is primarily a 3 tech as well...do you think teams say "welp...he's a 3 tech, so we can't double him...we're supposed to double the 1 tech according to the football book, so we'll do that"?

 

So again, it's just the reality of the situation that in 2019 Ioan was way more doubled than Allen and at the same time a way more effective pass rusher.

Your response sort of touched on how it really works IMO. Yes, offenses do have certain objectives in their game plan that dictate which players may need to be doubled. However, the defensive player also drives opposition game planning. How often do you think offensive game plans don't take an Aaron Donald or Chase Young into account, whether doubling up on him or using some other method to try to neutralize him? Some players whether due to size and/or skill will require a double team if you're going to get anywhere. Defensive game planning takes that into account to shore up other weak areas or to allow other players to make a play while the double teamed guy is occupying two blockers so I don't think it's unreasonable to see it as being the "job" of some players to draw double teams. I think it's more about the unique characteristics/talents of the player than the specific position but in the end, it's really a chicken/egg question.

[mistertim]

49 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

Your response sort of touched on how it really works IMO. Yes, offenses do have certain objectives in their game plan that dictate which players may need to be doubled. However, the defensive player also drives opposition game planning. How often do you think offensive game plans don't take an Aaron Donald or Chase Young into account, whether doubling up on him or using some other method to try to neutralize him? Some players whether due to size and/or skill will require a double team if you're going to get anywhere. Defensive game planning takes that into account to shore up other weak areas or to allow other players to make a play while the double teamed guy is occupying two blockers so I don't think it's unreasonable to see it as being the "job" of some players to draw double teams. I think it's more about the unique characteristics/talents of the player than the specific position but in the end, it's really a chicken/egg question.

 

Yeah I agree that it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, so a guy sort of does have that "job" to draw double teams. But what you wrote here is also sort of my point: that according to the double team statistics from 2019, opposing teams clearly saw Ioannidis as the biggest threat of our interior DL guys and double teamed him accordingly. Which also makes it all the more impressive that he was also still by far our most effective interior pass rusher that season and racked up 8.5 sacks.

 

I'm not saying Ioan is a HoFer or should be paid as a top 2 DT, but I think he's vastly underrated by some our fanbase, and that Allen is also a bit overrated by some. I think at the very least they're equally good players. I'll be curious to see how much each of them asks for on their next contract. Allen is up after this season and Ioan is up after 2022.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that Allen is going to try and be paid like a top 2 DT in the NFL and IMO he simply isn't that guy. He's not anywhere near the level of a game disruptor like Donald, Jones, Heyward, or Cox. PFF actually has Allen ranked as the #12 interior DL going into the 2021 season. They admitted he had a very high pass rush rating but I think they dinged him a bit in their rankings because his pass rush grade in 2020 was kind of an anomaly for him as opposed to him being consistently ranked as elite in that category.

 

At some point we're probably going to have to go the SF route and let one of our DL walk. It's just not tenable to pay all 3 of them elite money while also having guys like Terry and Sweat coming up after 2022...not to mention Chase who will eventually be the top paid DL in the NFL if he continues on his current trajectory. The question is...which guy do we keep, and can we get a 1st round pick for whoever we decide to trade?

Edited June 1, 2021 by mistertim

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

The premise that Ioannidis is better than Allen wasn't lost on other teams' offenses or our own coaching staff, judging by the number of snaps as well as the above noted double team and win rate.

 

Ioannidis 2019: 

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    378
PASS RUSH SNAPS    449

 

Allen in 2019:

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    319
PASS RUSH SNAPS    400

 

Allen in 2020:

RUN DEFENSE SNAPS    331
PASS RUSH SNAPS    473

 

 

The idea of "starter vs backup" is clearly pretty much meaningless here. Even when Ioan was out last season, Allen still only played about as many snaps as Ioan did in 2019.

Allen was injured that entire year. 

 

It's pretty awesome how great our D line is. I hope they all have career years.

[Koolblue13]

No double teams on Ioannidis in this. Lots on Payne and Allen. 

 

I'd imagine a highlight video of Allen would be the same.

 

And the 1/3 tech thing. One DT lines up directly over both the center and the guard, by design and if the DT is good, he dictates to the oline that he has to be double teamed. So yes, the Dline can design plays to make the offense double team certain players.