BBC: China pneumonia outbreak: COVID-19 Global Pandemic

[CousinsCowgirl84]

4 hours ago, Larry said:

1). It doesn't produce any results at all. 
 

2). The sole reason it's even being mentioned (including by you) is ... well ... political reasons. And specifically, as part of an intentional agenda to tell people to do it instead of doing the things that do work. 

I’m only mentioning it because it’s being mentioned. I don’t really care, if some one wants to take something I’m not gonna stop them. 
 

But obviously I agree, focusing on things that do work is better than encouraging people to do things that don’t.

Edited January 4, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Sticksboi05]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I’m only mentioning it because it’s being mentioned. I don’t really care, if some one wants to take something I’m not gonna stop them. 
 

But obviously I agree, focusing on things that do work is better than encouraging people to do things that don’t.

 

If they're exceeding safe dosages off the advice of random people on Facebook, or if they're taking a version made for livestock and poisoning themselves we should absolutely get them to stop taking it. It's one thing to take Vitamin C when you have a cold even though it doesn't do anything meaningful, but this could be dangerous.

[superozman]

Serious question here - partially out of boredome already only 2 days in.

 

I'm asymptomatic after less than 12 hours of symptoms.  Tested positive.  

 

Is it ok for me to go jog outside?  Science wise, I don't see any reason you can't.  However, optic wise, people would lose their ****.

[PeterMP]

38 minutes ago, superozman said:

Serious question here - partially out of boredome already only 2 days in.

 

I'm asymptomatic after less than 12 hours of symptoms.  Tested positive.  

 

Is it ok for me to go jog outside?  Science wise, I don't see any reason you can't.  However, optic wise, people would lose their ****.

 

CDC guidelines are no unnecessary interactions with other people inside or outside.  And if necessary, even if they are outside, wear a mask.  They even suggest avoiding outside interactions with animals and if not possible wearing a mask.

 

Based on CDC guidelines, if you can jog somewhere there aren't other people or animals, I guess you'd be okay.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html

 

Not a doctor so take with a grain of salt: Especially with omicron even transient interactions seem to be spreading it.  Running pass or by other people could allow it to spread.  You are almost certainly still contagious.

Edited January 4, 2022 by PeterMP

[superozman]

19 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

CDC guidelines are no unnecessary interactions with other people inside or outside.  And if necessary, even if they are outside, wear a mask.  They even suggest avoiding outside interactions with animals and if not possible wearing a mask.

 

Based on CDC guidelines, if you can jog somewhere there aren't other people or animals, I guess you'd be okay.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html

 

Not a doctor so take with a grain of salt: Especially with omicron even transient interactions seem to be spreading it.  Running pass or by other people could allow it to spread.  You are almost certainly still contagious.

 

Thanks for sharing!  yea, it's obviously super cautious to not go outside and yes, i would wear a mask.  But i'll do some exercise inside.  Maybe start up insanity again like I did over a decade ago 😂

[Sticksboi05]

5 hours ago, superozman said:

Serious question here - partially out of boredome already only 2 days in.

 

I'm asymptomatic after less than 12 hours of symptoms.  Tested positive.  

 

Is it ok for me to go jog outside?  Science wise, I don't see any reason you can't.  However, optic wise, people would lose their ****.

 

If you can find a place with literally no other people, no reason you can't but if you are still positive, especially if the positive was on a rapid test, which signals high amounts of live virus in your nose, you cannot be around others.

 

Lack of symptoms is not indicative of not being contagious.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Sticksboi05

[skinsmarydu]

I have stairs in my house.  Walked 'em like a mad woman to get my muscle mass back.

That's all I got. 

[PeterMP]

Well, new CDC guidelines are out.  Guessing that isn't going to make anybody help.

 

Take a test after 5 days if you want.  If you do take a test and are positive, stay in for 5 more days.  If negative, you can go out but still should follow the "old" guidelines (i.e. where a masks).

 

(This doesn't even make sense to me.  I guess it is essentially what they said unless you decide to test.)

 

 

[gbear]

I suspect they had to word it that way because the tests are so hard to get right now.  If they said you needed a test to say you could go back to work, they would have heard the howls of protest on Jupiter.  Some people would have used it as an excuse not to work when they could.  The employers would have screamed about not being able to stay open, and the economy would stutter more.  Simply put, if the hospitals and emergency services can stay operable, giving this middle of the road guidance makes sense.  I note this is no given.  Just look at the state of emergency in MD now, and we have a ton of hospitals for our population density. 

 

We will have to see what the right call was. 

 

Sadly, I am not sure of the potential impact of a stricter testing recommendation after so much harm to the credibility of/faith in the government in general and the CDC in particular.  Alas, I am unconvinced we have the political will to do anything more.

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, gbear said:

I suspect they had to word it that way because the tests are so hard to get right now.  If they said you needed a test to say you could go back to work, they would have heard the howls of protest on Jupiter.  Some people would have used it as an excuse not to work when they could.  The employers would have screamed about not being able to stay open, and the economy would stutter more.  Simply put, if the hospitals and emergency services can stay operable, giving this middle of the road guidance makes sense.  I note this is no given.  Just look at the state of emergency in MD now, and we have a ton of hospitals for our population density. 

 

We will have to see what the right call was. 

 

Sadly, I am not sure of the potential impact of a stricter testing recommendation after so much harm to the credibility of/faith in the government in general and the CDC in particular.  Alas, I am unconvinced we have the political will to do anything more.

 

They could have left the policy as it was before and given a benefit for taking a test.

 

They could have said end quarantine with using a mask if you test negative after 5 days.  If you don't test, you have to wait 10 days or even 7 or even said with no negative test it is 10 days or 5 days + 48 hours w/ no symptoms.  Or all sorts of things like that which incentivized test taking and getting a negative test but didn't leave you quarantining forever if you can't get a test.  5 day quarantine if you test negative and 7 if you don't take a test would have incentivized taking a test and reduced the previous quarantine length.

 

What the CDC seems to be signaling is that they are very concerned that people might test negative and then go out and act like they are no longer contagious even though they still are.  Which is contrast to many criticizing them on twitter that have pushed an idea that the tests are essentially 100% accurate when you are (most) contagious.  

 

The CDC doesn't appear to trust the tests that much or at least the general public's ability to take them properly and get an accurate (positive) result.

Edited January 5, 2022 by PeterMP

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

Yikes, if true...

 

 

 

[China]

Nurse wakes from 28-day Covid coma after medics give her VIAGRA: Asthmatic double-jabbed mother-of-two was just three days from having ventilator turned off

 

A nurse who spent 28 days in a Covid coma fighting for her life has been saved after medics gave her Viagra as part of an experimental treatment regime. 

 

Double-jabbed asthmatic mother-of-two Monica Almeida, 37, from Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, was admitted to hospital on November 9 after testing positive for coronavirus on October 31. 

 

She was moved to intensive care a week later before doctors put her into an induced coma on November 16. 

 

Mrs Almeida says they were  just three days away from having her ventilator turned off when her condition started to improve and she woke up on December 14. 

 

When she woke up doctors at Lincoln County Hospital revealed they had given her a large dose of viagra as part of an experimental treatment regime that she agreed to before going into a coma.  

 

The erectile dysfunction drug enables greater blood flow to all areas of the body by relaxing the walls of blood vessels, and Mrs Almeida says it caused her condition to improve in just a week and the level of oxygen she needed to drop by half as it opened up her airways. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by China

[China]

Yuzhou: Second Chinese city forced into Covid lockdown

 

China has put a second city into total lockdown after just three asymptomatic Covid cases were discovered.

 

Yuzhou - which has a population of 1.1 million - saw its transport system shut down and all but essential food stores closed overnight.

 

It follows a similar lockdown in Xi'an, where 13 million have been confined to their homes since 23 December.

 

The strict measures come ahead of the Lunar New Year and the Winter Olympics due to be held in Beijing.

 

With exactly a month to go until the Games start, foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin assured reporters China had "formulated an efficient and highly effective defence system".

 

As part of this system, thousands of staff and volunteers started entering a bubble on Tuesday, which will see them have no physical contact with the outside world in order to limit the spread.

 

Participants and international media arriving the cover the Games will also enter the bubble on arrival in China, where they will remain for the duration of their stay.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by China

[China]

How Full Are Hospital I.C.U.s Near You?

 

About one in 4 U.S. hospitals with intensive care units, or 713 total hospitals, recently reported that at least 95 percent of their I.C.U. beds were full. In the week ending Dec. 30, an average of 77 percent of intensive care hospital beds were occupied nationwide, according to a dataset released weekly by the Department of Health and Human Services.

 

As the more transmissible, but apparently milder, Omicron variant becomes increasingly common, surges in cases may not translate as directly to strained hospitals, especially in highly vaccinated places. But if cases rise high enough, or enough people are vulnerable or unvaccinated, hospitals and I.C.U.s will fill up.

 

This week’s dataset may not yet capture the effect that holiday gatherings and travel have had on the number of U.S. residents who are very sick with Covid-19. For the last two weeks of 2021, the Transportation Security Administration said it screened an average of almost two million travelers per day — nearly twice as many as in 2020.

 

Because days pass between when a person becomes infected and requires hospitalization, and because lags in reporting may have been exacerbated by the holidays, the picture may become clearer with the dataset that the Health Department is expected to release Jan. 10.

 

See how the pandemic has affected recent hospital capacity in the map below, which shows data reported by individual hospitals. Health officials have said that the data should not discourage sick people from seeking care.

 

Click on the link for an interactive map

 

The ICU at Sibley Hospital in DC is at 166% of capacity.  

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by China

[PeterMP]

3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Yikes, if true...

 

 

 

 

 

First any virus can invade abnormal tissues and do damage.  So that any respiratory virus is just a respiratory virus is flawed thinking.  The flu and the common cold can cause GBS, encephalitis, nerve damage etc.

 

Next, for the more serious effects there is a link between infection and degree of affect.  In the paper they cite about neurological affects, there is clearly a larger effect from having been on a ventilator than not.  The next thing is none of these studies have pre-Covid data so they are essentially assuming the population of people that got Covid (early) is random.  But we all know that isn't true at least in western countries where Covid became political.  Then they aren't seeing individual affects but population based affects.  They aren't saying that every individual that got Covid has a mental deficit.  They are saying that compared to the population that hadn't had Covid when they did the population that had Covid had mental deficits. Which is completely consistent with the general population of people that got Covid early is different than the general population of people that didn't Covid.

 

From there, the original strain was a human poor respiratory virus.  It didn't stay in the upper respiratory tract and infected lots of tissues.  Also unvaccinated people had a poor immune response which allowed the virus to spread largely uncontrolled (you could be infectious for days without symptoms because the body wasn't mounting an immune response).  The result was that the Covid virus ended up all over the place.  Meaning it had the potential to damage lots of cells, tissues, and organs.

 

Also the more places the virus ends up, the more chances the human immune response is going to start to identify something as foreign that isn't foreign which would cause an auto immune issue. With the vaccine, people are mounting a better immune response earlier.  Hopefully, that has helped limit where the virus is ending up and reduced the viral load in other tissues and organs and helping better train the immune system as to the problem and reduce the chance of auto-immune disorders.

 

I've also already said here recently, evolution isn't a perfect process and some times evolution can go in unexpected directions due to its random nature.  You'd generally expect the flu to become less likely to cause GBS (unless causing GBS helps it spread), but certainly some years the major flu variant seems more likely to cause GBS than others.  While we don't know that any given newer variant is less likely to cause fewer issues in tissues that aren't helping it spread, it does become less likely.

 

Omicron with a vaccine is much less likely to cause longer term affects, I would think.  Though they aren't 0.

Edited January 5, 2022 by PeterMP

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

First any virus can invade abnormal tissues and do damage.  So that any respiratory virus is just a respiratory virus is flawed thinking.  The flu and the common cold can cause GBS, encephalitis, nerve damage etc.

….(and stuff like that there)

Hugely appreciate the detailed response…I wasn’t about to read each of those studies they mention (there’s like 40 of ‘em lol). 

[Sticksboi05]

Agree with everything PeterMP just said – the best estimate of long COVID right now depending on how you precisely define it is10-30% of those who contract it, and not the symptoms are not necessarily forever. And of course we saw many people with long-term issues have their issues resolved after vaccination.

 

COVID is definitely more of a risk for these issues than the cold but the idea that getting it automatically or even near automatically turns you into a shell of what you once were, especially after vaccination, is hyperbole that I think most virologists and immunologists would agree on.

 

If you were able to go into your body when you had a cold like that Magic School Bus episode and see all that is happening you'd probably be mortified.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Sticksboi05

[gbear]

Yes Peter, thanks for preventing my panic.  I was already thinking about the study showing the 40% increase in deaths of people between 18 and 64.  I still think this may play a part, the general assault on our systems.  I just hope like you mentioned, being vaccinated should lower the impact on the whole system.  With luck, it will be but a temporary blip those who catch COVID recover from over the coming weeks/months.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

COVID is definitely more of a risk for these issues than the cold but the idea that getting it automatically or even near automatically turns you into a shell of what you once were, especially after vaccination, is hyperbole that I think most virologists and immunologists would agree on.

 

 

They actually never said anything like that.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Welp, we’ve reached the “calling the county police to do a wellness check on my co-workers” phase of the Omicron Snowpocalypse.

 

And yes, he was alive.  Just too sick to walk through a foot of snow to charge his phone in his car.

[Sticksboi05]

15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

They actually never said anything like that.

 

There are many doctors who want people to behave as if that is the reality of the situation.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

There are many doctors who want people to behave as if that is the reality of the situation.

 

But not in the Twitter thread he was reacting to.

[Sticksboi05]

32 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

But not in the Twitter thread he was reacting to.

 

Fair (I'm agreeing with him) I'm just saying the author's sentiment is that nobody should feel safe right now in any way. When you tweet "the vaccine protects me is a comforting fairy tale" you are stoking panic and it's the kind of stuff that has hurt people's mental health the past two years. There's a responsible way to tell people the virus can have harmful impacts without essentially saying getting vaccinated doesn't do anything. And this guy isn't even an immunologist or related doctor, he's a software engineer.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Sticksboi05

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

Fair (also I'm agreeing with him) I'm just saying the author's sentiment is that nobody should feel safe right now in any way. When you tweet "the vaccine protects me is a comforting fairy tale" you are stoking panic and it's the kind of stuff that has hurt people's mental health the past two years. There's a responsible way to tell people the virus can have harmful impacts without essentially saying getting vaccinated doesn't do much. And this guy isn't even an immunologist or related doctor, he's a software engineer.

 

I took it more as nobody should let the "It's just a bad cold/I'm vaccinated/most cases are mild anyway" make them feel there is nothing to worry about concerning COVID.

[Sticksboi05]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I took it more as nobody should let the "It's just a bad cold/I'm vaccinated/most cases are mild anyway" make them feel there is nothing to worry about concerning COVID.

 

That I 100% agree with 🍻. I just didn't like that he was poo pooing vaccination as a non-doctor.