The Plight of the 2021 Baltimore Orioles

[Hersh]

Would anyone here actually retire and leave $90 million on the table? I certainly wouldn’t even if I never got a hit and struck out every time. The only buyout I’d take is whatever the calculation is that gives me the present value of future payments factoring in a 2 or 3 percent interest rate.

 

It shouldn’t be the O’s mission to get him to retire by embarrassing him. PA gave him the contract, so he needs to own it. No one forced the O’s to negotiate against themselves.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, capcrunch98 said:

I think CD is a good guy, and we'll always remember the great years he gave us, but if he really drags this out for another 3 seasons just to collect a paycheck he should be ashamed of himself. 

 

I don't know man...that's pretty harsh. I think it's incumbent on the team who signed him to that deal to make a move, not him. As long as he's professional, takes suggestions or creative ideas for improvement, etc. then I don't have a problem with him continuing to play as long as the team will play him. 

 

If it starts coming out that he's not putting time in, not listening to coaching, etc. then I may change my mind. But, we have to keep in mind that at the time of the deal, he had put together 3-4 pretty productive seasons (2012-2016) so even though the team overpaid, it's tough to say he didn't earn in from a player's perspective. Essentially he outperformed whatever contract he was on while he was hitting 40-50 HRs and has horribly underperformed on this contract. 

 

Edit: By the way, i'm not excusing or defending the deal itself...just trying to understand how he can justify taking the money. He may feel that each check he cashes in 2018 and 2019 is truly paying him for what he did when he helped us to those winning seasons under Buck. And, in some ways, that's not completely unfair. 

Edited April 4, 2019 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Hersh]

CD is going no where until the O’s DFA. Nobody is giving up that money. No one here would. Hypotheticals are easy when it’s not your money you are giving up. 

[capcrunch98]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't know man...that's pretty harsh. I think it's incumbent on the team who signed him to that deal to make a move, not him. As long as he's professional, takes suggestions or creative ideas for improvement, etc. then I don't have a problem with him continuing to play as long as the team will play him. 

 

If it starts coming out that he's not putting time in, not listening to coaching, etc. then I may change my mind. But, we have to keep in mind that at the time of the deal, he had put together 3-4 pretty productive seasons (2012-2016) so even though the team overpaid, it's tough to say he didn't earn in from a player's perspective. Essentially he outperformed whatever contract he was on while he was hitting 40-50 HRs and has horribly underperformed on this contract. 

 

Edit: By the way, i'm not excusing or defending the deal itself...just trying to understand how he can justify taking the money. He may feel that each check he cashes in 2018 and 2019 is truly paying him for what he did when he helped us to those winning seasons under Buck. And, in some ways, that's not completely unfair. 

 

I think all of us on here could go on forever about the absurdity of guaranteed pro contracts.  I don't feel sorry for Angelos and his fellow fat cats for doling these out, and I agree that more times than not, the player ends up getting paid for past performance rather than what he ends up producing going forward.

But in the case of CD, this is historically bad, and will likely go down as the worst contract in the history of pro sports (and that's really saying something).  IMO, this is akin to you or I getting a big promotion at work with a hefty salary and a huge office and a hot secretary, and then we end up not being able to do anything expected of us, staring at a blank monitor all day and constantly calling in sick, while our lesser-compensated subordinates work unpaid overtime to bail the section out.  Some people could accept that arrangement as long as they're getting paid.  I couldn't.

I am sure that CD feels worse about this than anyone else.  Is he trying his best and doing everything asked of him?  I'd like to think so, although there was a report last year where his hitting coach questioned his commitment during the offseason (but I don't know what came out of that).  But there's no way this guy can look himself in the mirror and say he's earning his keep.  If he's going to continue to collect, that's is right.  But it's also the Orioles right to run him out there every day for whatever reason - comic relief, they're holding out hope he pops 50 HRs, they're secretly hoping he gets fed up and retires, whatever.  After all, they're certainly paying him for it.   

[Hersh]

You’re advocating for the Orioles to become a ****ty, low class organization. 

[capcrunch98]

4 minutes ago, Hersh said:

You’re advocating for the Orioles to become a ****ty, low class organization. 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I just think these big bloated ridiculous contracts should work both ways.  If Chris Davis is embarrassed to go out there every day, he can call it quits at any time.  Until then, the Orioles have every right to play him however they see fit.  Despite the feel-good start, this is a lost rebuilding year and although I agree they should really be developing someone else at 1B, the fact is they're paying a guy over $20 million to play, so put him in. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

50 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said:

 

IMO, this is akin to you or I getting a big promotion at work with a hefty salary and a huge office and a hot secretary, and then we end up not being able to do anything expected of us, staring at a blank monitor all day and constantly calling in sick, while our lesser-compensated subordinates work unpaid overtime to bail the section out.  Some people could accept that arrangement as long as they're getting paid.  I couldn't.

 

 

Your analogy needs some changes to be accurate. From a results standpoint, yes...it's as close as we can come up with comparing an athlete to one of us. However, he isn't "calling in sick" or "staring at a blank monitor" from what we know. 

 

To me, that would be the same as asking out of the lineup or not putting work in. That's a better analogy to what the Redskins got out of Haynesworth (who ironically actually produced more when he played or tried). 

 

The guy is out there everyday trying. He's practicing. He's being a good teammate. He just lost what made him a candidate for that contract. It sucks and the team/fans are holding the bag of **** because of it. But I don't think it's incumbent on him to step down or walk away from the money.

 

Edit: I think a better example would be paying a lot of money to a marketer or ad agency to create a specific ad for you based on something they had done previously. Basically, you're going paying for something you think will continue working. Once they do that ad for you, the results are bad. Maybe it's gone stale or maybe the audience landscape has changed. But the results aren't there. Basically, they are doing what you're asking them to do, it just isn't working like it used to. Should they give their money back?

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Hersh]

27 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said:

 

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I just think these big bloated ridiculous contracts should work both ways.  If Chris Davis is embarrassed to go out there every day, he can call it quits at any time.  Until then, the Orioles have every right to play him however they see fit.  Despite the feel-good start, this is a lost rebuilding year and although I agree they should really be developing someone else at 1B, the fact is they're paying a guy over $20 million to play, so put him in. 

 

The O's can DFA him any time. They are choosing to play him there every day. It doesn't really matter for a couple months cause they aren't bringing up another OF prospect this early, but at some point this season I expect them to bite the bullet. It will happen cause the O's front office can't endlessly justify it to the fans

[abdcskins]

Orioles 7-1 in home openers since 2011.

[capcrunch98]

Fair enough.  The calling in sick and doing nothing references were intended to drive home the point of how ineffective the guy is, not necessarily lack of effort and insubordination.  I agree that CD seems to be showing none of that, although the comments last year from his former hitting coach Scott Coolbaugh were disturbing.

I'm not trying to be mean, I wish the guy the best, and I'm not laughing when he's up at the plate and failing.  It's just clear that he's not holding up his end of that contract and I personally feel that he should own up to some of that.  I can understand why others would feel differently.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by capcrunch98

[abdcskins]

Strike em out throw em out!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said:

Fair enough.  The calling in sick and doing nothing references were intended to drive home the point of how ineffective the guy is, not necessarily lack of effort and insubordination.  I agree that CD seems to be showing none of that, although the comments last year from his former hitting coach Scott Coolbaugh were disturbing.

I'm not trying to be mean, I wish the guy the best, and I'm not laughing when he's up at the plate and failing.  It's just clear that he's not holding up his end of that contract and I personally feel that he should own up to some of that.  I can understand why others would feel differently.

 

 

 

 

I see your point. It really does suck. And I don't take what you're saying as mean at all. 

 

in the end though, this is extreme, but it happens all the time. The Angels paid Pujols and have gotten decent ROI in maybe 2-3 of the seasons. Same with the Tigers and Cabrera. We all knew it would happen, just not to this extent. So it's a very slippery slope on when the player sets a precedent and puts the union in a bad spot to give back or decline some of his pay. That money wouldn't make a difference to Davis but that precedent might be a big deal to a guy who isn't living up to a 4-year $6M contract...

[abdcskins]

Villar goes opposite field over the wall! Right down the line.

[abdcskins]

Wow! Yankees are sloppy! They suck haha.

 

Bases loaded balk followed by a wild pitch. O's up 3-0.

 

Fans cheered Chris Davis according to Thorne. And he proceeds to strike out. I hear boos.

[Hersh]

Definitely booed. Cobb getting outs but they are loud outs. 

 

Paxton was terrible that first inning. 

[Redskin4ever]

4 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

Wow! Yankees are sloppy! They suck haha.

 

Bases loaded balk followed by a wild pitch. O's up 3-0.

 

Fans cheered Chris Davis according to Thorne. And he proceeds to strike out. I hear boos.

 

I was wondering how they got the 3rd run. The four letter app showed the balk, but then back to back strikeouts. However it showed 3-0 even though the game log only showed 2 runs. 

 

This is not not going to end well for Chris Davis. But I think at the point, we all just want it to end.

[abdcskins]

Ugh don't groove an 0-2 pitch.

[DCSaints_fan]

4 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't know man...that's pretty harsh. I think it's incumbent on the team who signed him to that deal to make a move, not him. As long as he's professional, takes suggestions or creative ideas for improvement, etc. then I don't have a problem with him continuing to play as long as the team will play him. 

  

If it starts coming out that he's not putting time in, not listening to coaching, etc. then I may change my mind. But, we have to keep in mind that at the time of the deal, he had put together 3-4 pretty productive seasons (2012-2016) so even though the team overpaid, it's tough to say he didn't earn in from a player's perspective. Essentially he outperformed whatever contract he was on while he was hitting 40-50 HRs and has horribly underperformed on this contract. 

  

Edit: By the way, i'm not excusing or defending the deal itself...just trying to understand how he can justify taking the money. He may feel that each check he cashes in 2018 and 2019 is truly paying him for what he did when he helped us to those winning seasons under Buck. And, in some ways, that's not completely unfair. 

 

Fair point.  From 2012-2015, Davis was worth about 15 WAR, but was paid only $26m.  Recently WAR as been worth about $7-8m in FA.  So he provided $8m*15 = $120m worth of value.    So far he has been paid $69m of his contract (though some deferred).  In 2016 he actually provided 3.3 WAR, or about $26m worth of value.   I'll be nice and ignore the last two years which he had negative net WAR which wiped that out 2016.  So $120m+$26m  =$146m value, for which we have paid him so far $26m+$69m = $95m.   $146m-$95m = $50m roughly we should have to pay him in order to be "fair".

[abdcskins]

Don't these pitchers learn to throw 0-2 out of the zone? Second homer this inning, that one hurt. Horrible.

[TheDoyler23]

Wright apparently wants to ruin opening day. Up 4-2 with 2 outs and he’s throwing BP. 

[DCSaints_fan]

Castro allows the 3 run homer to Voit which probably seals the deal.  Bullpen has not looked good at all so far this season. 

[abdcskins]

Yeah bullpen blew it today. We had a 3 run lead. Aside from Givens (who wasn't good today) and Means, there isn't anyone in there I trust. Might be the weakest part of our team.

 

No more MLB package for me. I'll check into the thread when I can. There is always the sports bar. I'll keep the faith! Gotta rebound on Saturday with a win.

Edited April 4, 2019 by abdcskins

[Bozo the kKklown]

When will Chris Davis get a hit this season?

[Redskin4ever]

11 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

When will Chris Davis get a hit this season?

 

It’s looking like it may never happen. You have to figure it will because lots of no name guys can put the bat on the ball and a hit falls every now and again. 

 

I still don’t understand why he won’t bunt and beat the shift. Not just to get off the zero hit mark, but as an actual weapon to get on base for the team. I’m sure pride has to do with it, but after last season, he should throw pride out the window and do anything he can to improve on those historically bad numbers. Instead, he’s going the other way.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

32 minutes ago, Redskin4ever said:

 

It’s looking like it may never happen. You have to figure it will because lots of no name guys can put the bat on the ball and a hit falls every now and again. 

 

I still don’t understand why he won’t bunt and beat the shift. Not just to get off the zero hit mark, but as an actual weapon to get on base for the team. I’m sure pride has to do with it, but after last season, he should throw pride out the window and do anything he can to improve on those historically bad numbers. Instead, he’s going the other way.

 

I haven't seen many games yet, but is the shift part of the problem so far? Not that a bunt wouldn't be a good way to get a hit (like you mentioned) but is he hitting into the shift at all?