The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Would you jump on another teams bandwagon if they had?

 

I gave my three strikes for why I went back to the Yankees and none of them have to do with entertainment.

 

Was at one of our last games against the Mets in section 420 yelling "same record, twice the payroll", we came back and won, Cousin and I had fun.

[@DCGoldPants]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Depends, I found the Mystics more entertaining because of it.

 

Opinion though, and OT.  I should probably go, getting the feelin I've overstayed my welcome here.

 

Well, there is the old saying "MLB and the WNBA are like Apples to Apples"

 

It's a open messageboard. Post where you like, man. I just don't see where a lot of this is coming from today. The Nationals had the worst luck a WS winning team could have. Not being able to have a real season to tour on their victory. Then the old guys retired or moved on. They had a Stras/Rendon option that both would have been wrong. Then ownership who's main business is commercial real estate was hit because of the pandemic and the new remote working model. Add in Corbin who was great for the title run went bust. Could they have spent like the Mets and hoped to retool fast? I guess. But look at the Mets. They are taking their lumps. Restocked the farm. overperformed against predictions for last season. 

 

What do people want? Ownership to sell if they want out? Me too. But the MASN thing is an issue for the value of this club and what someone coming in would pay. Hopefull things start to click of Baltimore is really for sale and the league is smart about where the real value of a TV market is to them. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by @DCGoldPants

[Riggo#44]

34 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I gave my three strikes for why I went back to the Yankees and none of them have to do with entertainment.

 

Was at one of our last games against the Mets in section 420 yelling "same record, twice the payroll", we came back and won, Cousin and I had fun.

Yeah that last one was over the line, you walked right into it though... 

 

[Riggo#44]

Back to real baseball talk, initial BA Mock Draft:

Quote

 

10. Nationals — Tommy White, 3B, Louisiana State

White pairs huge raw power with solid bat-to-ball skills and an aggressive approach that makes him one of the most fearsome sluggers in college baseball. He likes to swing, and he likes to swing with intent to do damage, and that approach led to a .360/.425/.754 slash line with 27 home runs as a middle-of-the-order hitter in one of the best offenses in the country a year ago. While White’s offensive production stacks up with almost anyone in the country, scouts will nitpick his swing decisions and defensive ability at the hot corner next spring. There’s a real risk he moves to first base in pro ball, and if that’s the case more pressure will be placed on his standout offensive skill set.

 

 

[Ball Security]

Looks like Nick Senzel will be playing 3B until House is ready which means that Kieboom is running out of chances. He doesn’t have a minor league option.

 

Here’s a bit about Senzel and Thomas’s friendship.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2019/05/31/nick-senzel-cincinnati-reds-lane-thomas-st-louis-cardinals/1194071001/

[@DCGoldPants]

8 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Looks like Nick Senzel will be playing 3B until House is ready which means that Kieboom is running out of chances. He doesn’t have a minor league option.

 

Here’s a bit about Senzel and Thomas’s friendship.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2019/05/31/nick-senzel-cincinnati-reds-lane-thomas-st-louis-cardinals/1194071001/

 

I think Senzel and Kieboom will battle in the spring for that 3B job. Still, Senzel can play a few different IF positions. But Kieboom hopefully is putting in the work right now to be ready in about what? 8 weeks? 

[Ball Security]

9 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

I think Senzel and Kieboom will battle in the spring for that 3B job. Still, Senzel can play a few different IF positions. But Kieboom hopefully is putting in the work right now to be ready in about what? 8 weeks? 

Yeah, Senzel can play about five positions. He can allow you to carry only three or four OFers. 
 

I still think they’ll get a 1B/DH. Then if you carry Nunez, someone has to go. I think Kieboom would be on the outside looking in. But both he and Senzel have been similar in that they can’t stay healthy.

From Zuckerman:

 

The Nationals have no illusions of a massive career resurrection from Senzel. But they do believe he’s better at third base than in the outfield, and they believe he’ll be better off sticking at one position instead of bouncing around, according to a source familiar with the club’s thinking.

 

If nothing else, the Nats appear to believe Senzel is a better option at this point than Carter Kieboom, who may have seen his clock reach 11:59 p.m. after eight frustrating professional seasons of his own. (Kieboom also was a first-round pick in 2016, selected 26 slots behind Senzel.)

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Ball Security

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Any rumors of us sniffing around at pitchers? I swear that was part of the wish list Rizzo talked about. Getting another starter and reliever.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Any rumors of us sniffing around at pitchers? I swear that was part of the wish list Rizzo talked about. Getting another starter and reliever.

 

I am less worried about pitchers, other than a small 1-2 year deal. I want to see what Gray, Gore, Irvin, Cavalli, when he returns, all have. I want to see if Jake Bennett can stay healthy. We could use more back end help to replace Trevor Williams, provide depth. But next year is the big year for pitchers.

 

I'm more concerned we've only heard about the Cubs negotiating with Hoskins. I think he's my #1 wish this year.

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I am less worried about pitchers, other than a small 1-2 year deal. I want to see what Gray, Gore, Irvin, Cavalli, when he returns, all have. I want to see if Jake Bennett can stay healthy. We could use more back end help to replace Trevor Williams, provide depth. But next year is the big year for pitchers.

 

I'm more concerned we've only heard about the Cubs negotiating with Hoskins. I think he's my #1 wish this year.

Bennett is out for 2024.  I think they have to come away with a better rotation piece than Williams to start the season. The staff was very healthy last season. Besides Cavalli’s ST injury, they didn’t have guys miss starts due to injury (Kuhl was more ineffectiveness, off field stress than actual injury). I’d like for Rutledge to get some starts, but I think they will need to have an established guy ahead of him or things will get thin pretty quickly. Even if it’s just a rebound guy like Frankie Montana or Spencer Turnbull.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/nationals-jake-bennett-undergoes-tommy-john-surgery/amp/

 

 

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Bennett is out for 2024.  I think they have to come away with a better rotation piece than Williams to start the season. The staff was very healthy last season. Besides Cavalli’s ST injury, they didn’t have guys miss starts due to injury (Kuhl was more ineffectiveness, off field stress than actual injury). I’d like for Rutledge to get some starts, but I think they will need to have an established guy ahead of him or things will get thin pretty quickly. Even if it’s just a rebound guy like Frankie Montana or Spencer Turnbull.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/nationals-jake-bennett-undergoes-tommy-john-surgery/amp/

 

 

Crap. Forgot about Bennett. Welp. That sucks. I just listened to Nats Chat Podcast--they made a great point. Even the scrubs like Lance Lynn, who was every bit as bad as Williams and Corbin were, getting $10-12m. So what's the benefit there? Who are they going to bring in, at what cost, that will actually be better than those two? It's a depressing question. Do they go for someone like Giolito? Stroman would be interesting--but might be out of our league. Otherwise we're looking at the Zach Davies of the world.

[@DCGoldPants]

29 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I still think they’ll get a 1B/DH. Then if you carry Nunez, someone has to go. I think Kieboom would be on the outside looking in. But both he and Senzel have been similar in that they can’t stay healthy.

 

Wasn't there something about Lane Thomas getting time at 1B too?

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

Wasn't there something about Lane Thomas getting time at 1B too?

 

I think you're thinking of Joey Meneses.

[@DCGoldPants]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I think you're thinking of Joey Meneses.

 

You are correct, sir

 

 

 

[Ball Security]

17 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Crap. Forgot about Bennett. Welp. That sucks. I just listened to Nats Chat Podcast--they made a great point. Even the scrubs like Lance Lynn, who was every bit as bad as Williams and Corbin were, getting $10-12m. So what's the benefit there? Who are they going to bring in, at what cost, that will actually be better than those two? It's a depressing question. Do they go for someone like Giolito? Stroman would be interesting--but might be out of our league. Otherwise we're looking at the Zach Davies of the world.

I don’t like the idea of the middling starters getting multiple years at the prices that FA commands. Not interested in Stroman (who I think wouldn’t be great in the locker room) or Giolito.

 

I would have been in on Eduardo Rodriguez for what he got.

 

For one year guys I would have been in on Miley and Gibson. Both of those guys are better than Williams who will be better out of the pen. 
 

I do think spending 10-15M extra on the SP has a positive ripple effect on the rest of the roster. 

 

[Riggo#44]

16 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t like the idea of the middling starters getting multiple years at the prices that FA commands. Not interested in Stroman (who I think wouldn’t be great in the locker room) or Giolito.

 

I would have been in on Eduardo Rodriguez for what he got.

 

For one year guys I would have been in on Miley and Gibson. Both of those guys are better than Williams who will be better out of the pen. 
 

I do think spending 10-15M extra on the SP has a positive ripple effect on the rest of the roster. 

 

Austin Voth is available!

 

I am not against adding to the rotation--they just need to be better than Williams. Which, you think would be a simple task, but the pickins are slim

[Ball Security]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I am less worried about pitchers, other than a small 1-2 year deal. I want to see what Gray, Gore, Irvin, Cavalli, when he returns, all have. I want to see if Jake Bennett can stay healthy. We could use more back end help to replace Trevor Williams, provide depth. But next year is the big year for pitchers.

 

I'm more concerned we've only heard about the Cubs negotiating with Hoskins. I think he's my #1 wish this year.

To your point about Hoskins, I’ve seen the Diamondbacks connected to him and Soler. I’d be pretty disappointed if we get shut out of a power bat in FA. The good news is that it looks like Pederson may be headed to PHI. When they talk about getting a LH OF bat, I’m not sure how they go about that. Just call up Wood when he’s ready.

[Riggo#44]

57 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

To your point about Hoskins, I’ve seen the Diamondbacks connected to him and Soler. I’d be pretty disappointed if we get shut out of a power bat in FA. The good news is that it looks like Pederson may be headed to PHI. When they talk about getting a LH OF bat, I’m not sure how they go about that. Just call up Wood when he’s ready.

I am fine not getting any OFers, other than bench/filler. Unless something really bad happens, Wood and Crews should be up, possibly Hassell if he gets going. We have gaping holes on the right side of our IF. Soler can play 1st can't he?

[Riggo#44]

Oh ****. This is fantastic.

 

[Ball Security]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I am fine not getting any OFers, other than bench/filler. Unless something really bad happens, Wood and Crews should be up, possibly Hassell if he gets going. We have gaping holes on the right side of our IF. Soler can play 1st can't he?

I don’t believe Soler has played 1B professionally.

 

I was thinking this afternoon. If Toronto lands Ohtani, he’ll likely DH this season. Guerrero at 1B. Last season there were rumors about wanting Lane Thomas. Toronto has a 1B/DH Spencer Horowitz, 26, lefty bat. They have nowhere to play him. If we could get him and some bullpen arms (Zulueta and Fluharty perhaps), I’d be good with that.

 

Play Garrett in RF, maybe get a cheap LH OF bat that you can replace with Wood and Crews.

[Riggo#44]

Welp, being free of MASN was fun while it lasted…

 

[@DCGoldPants]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Welp, being free of MASN was fun while it lasted…

 

 

We'll see. When Peter is no long alive, don't be surprised if the sons are in court again and neither can afford to buy the other out without a minority investor. At that point, who wants to give those guys money?

[bearrock]

22 minutes ago, @DCGoldPants said:

 

We'll see. When Peter is no long alive, don't be surprised if the sons are in court again and neither can afford to buy the other out without a minority investor. At that point, who wants to give those guys money?

 

It never made sense for the Angelos family to sell before Peter Angelos died for capital gains tax reasons alone.  His wife would get a step up in basis upon his death.  If they owned it jointly, it's half the value that would no longer be subject to capital gains tax.  If Angelos owned it mostly on his own, then almost the whole gain since he bought the team would no longer be subject to taxes.  At best, a right of first refusal deal like Leonsis with the Pollin family would've been it.  Otherwise, they are leaving several hundreds of million dollars on the table in terms of reducing tax liability.

[Ball Security]

32 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

It never made sense for the Angelos family to sell before Peter Angelos died for capital gains tax reasons alone.  His wife would get a step up in basis upon his death.  If they owned it jointly, it's half the value that would no longer be subject to capital gains tax.  If Angelos owned it mostly on his own, then almost the whole gain since he bought the team would no longer be subject to taxes.  At best, a right of first refusal deal like Leonsis with the Pollin family would've been it.  Otherwise, they are leaving several hundreds of million dollars on the table in terms of reducing tax liability.

I’m on an Orioles board and get a lot of information about the situation there. From what I gather, the plan is for Rubenstein to buy into a minority stake now with the right to be majority owner when Peter passes. So, similar to what you wrote. 
 

John Angelos and the team are in need of a cash infusion and this approach handles that while satisfying the tax situation.

 

MASN still hasn’t paid the $100M (2012-2017) that they owe Washington.

 

However, not to get too morbid, but once an agreement is made, by the time it takes to wrap up the deal (if we follow the Commanders sale timeline) the concern about the tax hit is very low.

 

[bearrock]

7 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

MASN still hasn’t paid the $100M (2012-2017) that they owe Washington.

 

This is going to be an interesting angle too.  MASN owes 100 mil each to Nats and the Orioles because they are obligated to pay both teams the same.  So Nats are at around net plus 50 mil (100 mil from MASN, mid 20ish percent contribution of 200 mil for their ownership at the time). O's are gonna be at net minus 50 mil (100 mil from MASN, mid 70% ish contribution of 200 mil).  So right now, MASN is a decent bit of negative line on the team's annual (if Nats were in the O's shoes, 10 mil per year expenditure would represent about a one-third hit to the annual operating profit). Then we have a similar payout for 2018-2023, and then a new deal for 2024-2029.

 

It actually moves into double whammy territory as Nats rebuild and O's are contending.  Nats are entitled to be paid the same as the O's so now Nationals rights fee would have be matched to the contending O's rights fee, assuming that O's will be higher.  Now O's are paying the Nats fees based on their performance despite the fact that Nats are not providing the same viewership they did during the contending years.

 

All this to say that Rubinstein or whoever ends up being the new O's owner may end up concluding the whole MASN mess isn't worth the trouble.  That it would be better to go their separate ways or focus on an equitable joint venture if the new Nats owner turns out to be Leonsis.  I think smaller piece of a regional sports monopoly like Monumental is more valuable than eventual 66 percent of a baseball only MASN.