goskins10 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 minute ago, carex said: I wasn't suggesting we cut him I think going into tha tmuch of a rebuild is a lousy idea and no, Moses is not terrible. And the point of this is to remove people either to expensive or who we can't rely on to get more people we can You literally said if we cut him this coming offseason. I bolded it. See below. You stated it as an option to keep the team from being crippled by his contract. But the team can't do it so it's an invalid argument. If your argument is his guaranteed contracts are not crippling, OK. But that has nothing to do with cutting him - which again the team cannot do no matter how bad they want to. You cannot cut an injured player - period. He stays on the team on IR until he passes a physical, retires, or there is an injury settlement reached. The last two are very unlikely but technically possible. 1 hour ago, carex said: Alex Smith's contract will not cripple us in 2020. If we cut him this coming off season we'd incur an extra 16 mil cap hit from 20 mil to 36, but if we cut him in 2020 we go from 21 mil to 16. It's a lousy cap hit but it's not crippling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 If you want a decent offensive line, you re-sign Scherff. Consensus All-Pro lineman trained in your team's play-scheme are rare and valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, goskins10 said: You literally said if we cut him this coming offseason. I bolded it. See below. You stated it as an option to keep the team from being crippled by his contract. But the team can't do it so it's an invalid argument. If your argument is his guaranteed contracts are not crippling, OK. But that has nothing to do with cutting him - which again the team cannot do no matter how bad they want to. You cannot cut an injured player - period. He stays on the team on IR until he passes a physical, retires, or there is an injury settlement reached. The last two are very unlikely but technically possible. no, that was me explaining to another person that his contract would not cripple us for two seasons, because if we cut him this season, yes it would add another 16 mil, to a cap him of 36 million total, but next year if we cut him out cap hit would drop from 20 to 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, carex said: no, that was me explaining to another person that his contract would not cripple us for two seasons, because if we cut him this season, yes it would add another 16 mil, to a cap him of 36 million total, but next year if we cut him out cap hit would drop from 20 to 16 OK, my last shot at this - it's a moot point because we cannot cut him, period. Maybe just talk the numbers without talking about cutting him. He cant be cut. But let's talk about the contract. I think the word cripple needs to be defined. One persons idea of being crippled would be $20M dead CAP while another's idea would be $40M dead CAP. Having $20M CAP tied up in a person on IR may not be "crippling", but it does make things very difficult. Remember how much losing $18M in CAP for two years hurt the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I dont think dumping any of that is blowing anything up. Its cutting waste, and inconsistent starters. Do it. Norman I'd like to restructure and keep, because I doubt dunnie ever becomes good. Trade our first rounder for a 2&3 and a first next year so we can move up for a QB. Load up on interior players on both sides and build a core on the front 7 and Oline/TE that stays healthy and run what ya brung next year. If Jay can coach, he can do it without the guys who aren't always there anyway and keep his job. If not, a new coach comes in with a giant cap and a ****load of draft picks including 2 1rsts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, carex said: I think going into tha tmuch of a rebuild is a lousy idea and no, Moses is not terrible. And the point of this is to remove people either to expensive or who we can't rely on to get more people we can You don't think Moses is unreliable, I know he's tough and he always plays but he doesn't play well hurt. I'm gonna dig up his PFF rankings for each game this year, I bet he's somewhere between 62-66 if you look at his season average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, goskins10 said: You cannot cut an injured player. His salaries are now good through 2020 unless he passes a physical before the 5th day of the 2019 season or he retires. He is not passing a physical - that is 100% for sure. Not sure why he would just leave $Ms on the table and retire. But I guess stranger things have happened. What about a buyout? If we raise enough cap space to absorb the bad debt instead of waiting until he's medically cleared I think he might be willing to collect a large portion of his guaranteed money next preseason if he knew our plans at QB have changed due to his health. He still gets every penny of what we owe him, the only thing I'm not sure about is if we pay him the $42M this offseason can we pay him the remaining $10.6M the following season. By no means is this a traditional way of doing things but it could put us right back on track to make some free agent moves in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 31 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: What about a buyout? If we raise enough cap space to absorb the bad debt instead of waiting until he's medically cleared I think he might be willing to collect a large portion of his guaranteed money next preseason if he knew our plans at QB have changed due to his health. He still gets every penny of what we owe him, the only thing I'm not sure about is if we pay him the $42M this offseason can we pay him the remaining $10.6M the following season. By no means is this a traditional way of doing things but it could put us right back on track to make some free agent moves in 2020. I listed in another comment they could come to an injury settlement. Not sure how that would look for a contract that big. That's typically used for much smaller contracts. Does not mean they can't do it. To me those types of decisions would only come with a new GM and HC. Bruce is tied to making Alex work out. So he would never look for an injury settlement. But a new GM may take a rip the band-aid off approach and come to an injury settlement and take the CAP hit to start with a clean slate. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. Just wonder what it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, JSSkinz said: You don't think Moses is unreliable, I know he's tough and he always plays but he doesn't play well hurt. I'm gonna dig up his PFF rankings for each game this year, I bet he's somewhere between 62-66 if you look at his season average. PFF is garbage. Just like our RTs play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Cut the entire front office/coaching staff then worry about on the field personnel with the new management and coaching move. Only way we win by 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 6 hours ago, carex said: you're about 10 million off according to Over the Cap. They have us at just under 6 mil to roll over to next year, and 14 something with the probable cap increase 30mil is my take on where we'll easily get to in cap space pre FA. Won't take a lot to create that space with 2 or 3 contract moves. Logical moves without blowing that whole thing up. However, all bets are off for the minute. If we fold in December then this could turn ugly fast. A viable option is to ditch Gruden, swallow the whole Smith contract over two years as a post June 1 cuts, draft defense and head into next season with new faces at the helm, HC and QB, propped up by an excellent core group on defence. Who the hell knows where this is going..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 50M in cap space won't help if you still have Bruce Allen doing his stupid stuff with it. It's just basically telling him, that he's got more toys to play around and missed on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I think in a very real way, the problem with our receivers is the same as the problem with our DBs. Once, we had a feared passing game, though many ESers complained that neither Garçon or Jackson were true number ones, but in the same year we cut them both for potential that has yet to become realized. Likewise, this year, we opted not sign our number 2 cb and traded our number 3 in the hopes that potential would win out. Now, this mass change looked pretty good at the beginning of the year until our formerly number 4 cb got hurt and we had to rely on 7th round rookies and UDFAs to fill the gap. There is is a danger in blowing things up or making wholesale changes. Imagine if either Bree or Fuller we’re still here playing with the current front seven. Imagine if Garçon or Jackson was still on offense. Change happens. This team sees its strength and makes it a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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