stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I agree that we have lousy receivers who are expendable, but the problem is a 4th round rookie can have way higher upside than guys above him, but still struggle to make the team because of his natural unreliability.  Usually hard to keep two rookies who aren't ready to go year one.  McLaurin would be safe in the short term because of his ST ability.  But Butler + McLaurin + Doctson + Quinn + Richardson is one of the most alarmingly inexperienced groups in the league.


I hear you and agree. It also doesn't bother me. Reminds me of how a lot of people are complaining about how the lack of OL is going to tank the team. I'm not really looking for us to be good next year. We have a rookie QB and a super young defense. We have a couple of holes, but I honestly feel like if we finish this draft out strong, we can be really good with a 2nd year Haskins and one more good draft and FA. 

 

Put another way, everything now is team building for our window. Do whatever is best for the development Haskins, even if that is sitting him and sucking. Draft BPA, even if it leaves holes this year. Build for the future. 

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Turpin’s charge was dismissed a week ago. Also, he didn’t commit the cardinal sin that Hill/Rice/Hunt all committed... get caught in a recording 

I’d rather go BPA in the 4th. There are still some good options here. 

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I think my favorite scenario for round four is to get Butler and one of the three good DBs that dropped that fit (Julian Love, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, or Deionte Thompson).  Not crazy about taking Hooker because I think his natural position is the same as Landon Collins's.

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2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Turpin’s charge was dismissed a week ago. Also, he didn’t commit the cardinal sin that Hill/Rice/Hunt all committed... get caught in a recording 

I’d rather go BPA in the 4th. There are still some good options here. 

 

I think he comes into play as an option in the 6th or 7th. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we were to get Butler, I think you have to carry 6 receivers and then spend some money to get an experienced veteran who can be counted on, and then basically red shirt Butler for the year as one of your inactives.

 

I love Butler.  Can't believe he's fallen this far.  And I am a BPA guy, I just worry about carrying two rookies in a single position group, no matter what group it is.

 

I liked McLaurin more than most here.  So I wasn't upset at the pick.  He's an elite special teams player.  McGinn's scouts touted him as the best special teams player in the draft.  Stud blocker.  Not just a good leader -- but elite level leader.   Ohio State coaches worship him -- smart, big time locker room guy.  His production isn't special but doesn't stink either -- 700 yards, 20 YPR, 11 TDs.  He was the talk of Senior Bowl practices.  And I put some value that Haskins wanted him and they have chemistry already.

 

Having said all that, I like Butler and Harmon over him.  If they take either one this round I'd be happy.  I can care less about Quick and all the other IMO Jags vying for a roster spot.

 

But I go back to I think they go Mack Wilson or Deionte Thompson.  Don't love either one.  But Alabama guys at positions of need?  How can they resist?   I started my man crush this college season by going to the Alabama opener up in Orlando and openly gushed about both players.  I fell out of love with both players by mid season or so.  But I joked last year that I started the  2017 draft season talking about Payne and they took him.  Now I am wondering about the same for Wilson or Thompson.   If so, I got some weird karma with my initial posts on these threads.  But I hope the streak breaks today.😀

 

Yesterday on the other draft thread I ironically put more info on McLaurin than anyone and that's who they ended up taking.   So I got some weird karma cooking maybe. 😀

 

So Bruce if you are reading this thread I am with stevemcqueen1 on Butler. 😀 I haven't agreed with him on every prospect.  But I agree most of the time. 

 

Not in love with Haskins but I'll back off in part because I respect your take on him among others.   Butler to me is the no brainer choice is he's there at their pick. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think my favorite scenario for round four is to get Butler and one of the three good DBs that dropped that fit (Julian Love, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, or Deionte Thompson).  Not crazy about taking Hooker because I think his natural position is the same as Landon Collins's.

 

I was literally about to post this. My favorite would be Chauncey Gardner-Johnson because I think he can play single high and also play a little CB. He would bring us some coverage versatility that we could use with Landon Collins. He's also physical. I think he might be my next pick. Not sure. 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think he comes into play as an option in the 6th or 7th. 

 

With baldwin shutting it down I think it may take a 6th to beat out Seattle for Turpin 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I liked McLaurin more than most here.  So I wasn't upset at the pick.  He's an elite special teams player.  McGinn's scouts touted him as the best special teams player in the draft.  Stud blocker.  Not just a good leader -- but elite level leader.   Ohio State coaches worship him -- smart, big time locker room guy.  His production isn't special but doesn't stink either -- 700 yards, 20 YPR, 11 TDs.  And I put some value that Haskins wanted him and they have chemistry already.

 

I like Butler over him too, and judging from our targets, I suspect we may be weighting the Senior Bowl higher than I am comfortable with.  But I'm with you on the value of the cultural benefit that McLaurin brings.  The basketball analogy for guys like him is "glue-guy."  They make a team cohesive and professional and reinforce a culture of sacrificing for the good of the team that is essential to becoming a great team.  Andre Iguodala is kind of the quintessential example in basketball today.  I think you're right that McLaurin provides this, and it's why I'm not disappointed with the pick.  It's more of a situation where I would have been overjoyed with a Butler pick instead.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I was literally about to post this. My favorite would be Chauncey Gardner-Johnson because I think he can play single high and also play a little CB. He would bring us some coverage versatility that we could use with Landon Collins. He's also physical. I think he might be my next pick. Not sure.  

 

I like his versatility a lot too, I think he could be an interchangeable safety in year one, and then eventually move into a starting role as a deep safety in year two.

 

Does anyone have a feel for the Penn State corner?  I don't remember watching him at all.  Probably going to try and view some cut ups of him before the draft starts.

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McGinn talking to scouts on McLaurin, they ironically had more to say about him for better or worse than any other prospect

 

In the fall, Terry McLaurin turned 11 of his 35 receptions into touchdowns as he averaged 20 yards per catch for Ohio State. In February, he ran one of the five fastest 40-yard dashes at the combine

 

McLaurin has more than big-play ability and speed on his burgeoning resume. He’s also at or near the top of prospects set to become core players on special teams in the NFL.

 

“He’s the biggest one,” a coordinator on special teams for an NFL team said. “He’s the top offensive player, for sure. It’s hard to find receivers that play good on special teams. This guy does.”

 

McLaurin (6-0, 207) put on an absolute clinic in November during the Buckeyes’ low-scoring struggle at Michigan State. On one second-half punt, he used his 4.30-speed to chase down a bouncing ball at the 1 and bat it back into play. On another, he took to his knees and downed the ball inside the 1.

“Terry might have taken over the title as the best (gunner) I’ve had,” Buckeyes coach Urban Meyer said two days after the MSU victory. “It’s with great reverence I say that. You go back all the way to Brad Roby, to Devin Smith, to Denzel Ward, Gareon Conley. Terry is as good as there is.”

 

Linebackers have earned most of the two Pro Bowl berths that go to special-teams players each year. In the last 20 seasons, just two wide receivers have been selected more than once: the Patriots’ Matthew Slater, seven; and the Chargers’ Kassim Osgood, three. Other picks at wide receiver were the Falcons’ Eric Weems, the Giants’ David Tyree, the Cardinals’ Sean Morey and the Seahawks’ Alex Bannister. 

Many wide receivers wouldn’t be caught dead covering kicks or jamming opposing gunners. Not McLaurin.

 

“He is like the anti-wide receiver,” said one personnel man. “Zero diva. He understands special teams, and that’s how you get on the field. It’s just his whole mindset. Some guys say that and it’s bull—-. This kid really gets it.

 

“He’s sharp. He’s at a different level. He’s so far above most college players when it comes to how he presents himself. There’s no way you miss on this guy. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a Pro Bowler (at wide receiver) but he’s going to be a really dependable player for a long time. There’s no downside.”

McLaurin played special teams throughout his four-year career, finishing with 15 tackles and two fumble recoveries. 

“We’re all over him,” another NFL special-teams coordinator said. “No brainer. He’s at least a third-round pick.”

 

Another coordinator projected McLaurin for the third or fourth round.

“He gets down there so damn fast,” he said. “He’s a little stiff-bodied but he runs fast in a straight line, for sure. He has trouble breaking down sometimes to make tackles, but when he can line you up he’ll knock the hell out of you.”

 

As a receiver, McLaurin’s statistics improved each year in receptions, yards, yards per catch and touchdowns. His hands are only average, one reason why his 35 receptions ranked fourth among the Buckeyes’ wide receivers behind Parris Campbell (88), K.J. Hill (69) and Johnnie Dixon (42).

“His hands aren’t 100% natural and he’s got a little bit of straight-line in him,” one scout said. “He had a great Senior Bowl week, blew up testing at the combine and had a great pro day workout. He started out the year as a late-round pick and he’s probably worked himself into the third round. 

“I don’t ever see him being more than a No. 3 receiver. He’s going to make it because he’s going to be great at (special teams) and he’s a good enough receiver. He’s an exceptional gunner. You’re going to get the most out of everything with this kid because of what he’s going to put into it.”

 

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I presume we will try to recreate what made Haskins a heisman candidate. 4.3 - 40 wrs that can line up anywhere. Think we will stick with Doctson as the x until next year. Will focus on depth and bpa in the 4th; Crosby, Chauncey, db ... 

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Posted (edited)

SIP: Makes me feel a bit better that you pumped McLaurin. I thought 3rd was too early for him, but the scouts seem to think I'm wrong. It does make me feel a lot better that he is such a high level special teamer. 

 

I will take, in whatever order, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Hakeem Butler, Blake Cashman, Kavontae Turpin, and Phil Haynes and Yosuah Nijman. I really like Phil Haynes and Yosuah Nijman as guys with great athletic tools that need development but could be very high level starters year 3 and provide depth until that time. 

 

Edited by Anselmheifer

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What about Michael Jordan as a target?  6'6 with 34.25 inch arms and an ability to play guard and center.

 

I haven't watched him, but he has the requisite size. Look at his explosion. He's 312 pounds and had a vert of 32.5" and a long jump of 116". That is insane lower body explosion. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/michael-jordan?id=32194a4f-5214-6382-8d60-9ad32b12a1f6

Edited by Anselmheifer

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Could you see them trying to steal Darren Lee in trade with the Jets. His cap hit isn't horrible and they could cut Mason Foster?

I would rather they select from a few available ILB in the 4th or 5th round but thought I would throw that out there as a possibility 

 

I think the G first, Jordan or Samia

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He suffers from being too tall At center. But didn’t play bad. I think a guy like Hjalte who is a road grater might be better 

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Just now, Skin'emAlive said:

I presume we will try to recreate what made Haskins a heisman candidate. 4.3 - 40 wrs that can line up anywhere. Think we will stick with Doctson as the x until next year. Will focus on depth and bpa in the 4th; Crosby, Chauncey, db ... 

 

Just thinking about what they'd do versus what I'd do. 

 

1. Deionte Thompson

2.  Mack Wilson

3.  Foster Moreau (just because they are looking for a Y TE supposedly and IMO he's the only one left worth in this range from the ones i watched sans Alize Mack who isn't IMo as good)

 

What I would do:

 

1. Hakeem Butler

2. Kelvin Harmon

 

I got a lot of guys bunched together as #3.  I am OK with Moreau if they want to take a TE.  I'd take Thompson but not with my first 4th round pick.   I haven't studied Ridley or Walker from Georgia but when I've watched their games (maybe pure coincidence) they've stood out.   I haven't watched any of the safeties or corners left aside from Thompson.  I am trying to get into Wesco right now but am having a hard time with it -- he ran a 4.9 and and he doesn't look any faster than that in the games I am watching.   

 

I mean maybe as a poor man's Mark Bavaro?  But can TE's like that be Y type TE's in today's NFL?   I can see him maybe if Jay's just thinking what the heck if they telgraph run or pass at least he wants a mauler blocker -- Wesco could be that.  Sprinkle doesn't seem to be a special blocker even though he's the best TE blocker on the team.   His blocking is really good and fun to watch.  His hands are good, too.   But he IMO doesn't look fluid as for a guy who can get open against faster safeties and MLBs.  Moreau can move but I think he's blocking is a bit overrated -- he's OK on that front but nothing special. 

 

I am not as anti-Doctson as some are.  But to me he doesn't play like an Alpha X receiver.  You can press him and make it hard for him to separate.   Don't love his peraonality either especially because it matches sometimes the style of his play.  But he's improved as a blocker and can make some nice catches.  I don't agree with those who say he's a bust.  He's not a bust IMO but isn't a go to X receiver.   Harmon and Butler to me aren't just good but play like Alpha players and I like that. 

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25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I like Butler over him too, and judging from our targets, I suspect we may be weighting the Senior Bowl higher than I am comfortable with.  But I'm with you on the value of the cultural benefit that McLaurin brings.  The basketball analogy for guys like him is "glue-guy."  They make a team cohesive and professional and reinforce a culture of sacrificing for the good of the team that is essential to becoming a great team.  Andre Iguodala is kind of the quintessential example in basketball today.  I think you're right that McLaurin provides this, and it's why I'm not disappointed with the pick.  It's more of a situation where I would have been overjoyed with a Butler pick instead.

Good point about the Senior Bowl... makes me wonder who else fits that bill.  

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

I like his versatility a lot too, I think he could be an interchangeable safety in year one, and then eventually move into a starting role as a deep safety in year two.

He could compete for the slot role as well.  Solid pairing with Collins.   

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Does anyone have a feel for the Penn State corner?  I don't remember watching him at all.  Probably going to try and view some cut ups of him before the draft starts.

I like him a lot, but I watched him early in the process and didn’t take notes.  Had him as a 2nd rounder.  

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10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What about Michael Jordan as a target?  6'6 with 34.25 inch arms and an ability to play guard and center.

 

Yeah am considering him too.  I talked about him a little while ago on the other draft thread.  

 

 

 

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I just looked at their meeting list and thinking about that combined with players in this round.

 

They met with

Foster Moreau

Dru Samia

Mack Wilson

Trevon Wesco

Blake Cashman

Kelvin Harmon

Hakeem Butler

 

They met with a bunch of ILBs so I am gathering its a position on their radar

Mack Wilson

Cashman

D. Harris

Tre Watson

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I just don’t think Foster Moreau brings anything more to the table that sprinkle can’t do. Wesco has far more upside and versatility, and should be available in the 5th.

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Any Sentiment for Ryan Finley? Cut colt for the savings. Next year, let Case walk for a comp and run with Haskins and Finley? I might grab him in the 5th. 

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1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

Any Sentiment for Ryan Finley? Cut colt for the savings. Next year, let Case walk for a comp and run with Haskins and Finley? I might grab him in the 5th. 

 

 

So in other word, rinse, repeat?

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Posted (edited)

The internet's favorite receiver, Hakeem Butler, just went with the 1st pick on Day 3.

 

As for Harmon, I'd rather address other positions on Day 3.  I don't think Harmon fits our roster, scheme, etc etc.  He's a worse Doctson, and we know how effective Doctson is in this offense.  He doesn't have the lateral movement that Dwayne Haskins seems to work well with.

Edited by Alcoholic Zebra

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