TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 No one said the guy doesn't make a difference. He's just not a good QB right now. He's slightly below average at playing QB. Listen, he's electric and athletic. However, if he was the "greatest weapon ever" like this thread makes it sound like, why did Atlanta score 14 offensive points last night? I mean, the Skins scored more than that and they don't have this unstoppable force on their team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by speedwagon20 EvilMonkey has some good points. There is no doubt that Vick is the best athlete in the NFL. Hands down. I get the feeling that he is the type of player that is going to be neutralized for at least half the games he plays. Teams are going to force him to throw to beat them and he will not be able to. He may improve (I'm sure he will) but right now, he's a below-average QB and an incredible runner. You have absolutely no idea what you are talk about. While at VT, he had the highest QB rating ever in the NCAA. You don't get that without having the ability to throw. I still rememger talking to a couple of my co workers, telling them that Michael Vick will be the greatest QB that ever lived. And I still stand by that remark. He is single handedly evolutionalizing the position of QB. Soon the days of the pocket passer will be extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red&BlueRivalry Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by speedwagon20 No one said the guy doesn't make a difference. He's just not a good QB right now. He's slightly below average at playing QB. Listen, he's electric and athletic. However, if he was the "greatest weapon ever" like this thread makes it sound like, why did Atlanta score 14 offensive points last night? I mean, the Skins scored more than that and they don't have this unstoppable force on their team... He's only... what... 22... 23 years old? He doesn't have much NFL experience at all. Also, it's not like Atlanta has a ton of talent on the offense. It's his first game to start after the injury, he had two quarters last week but I'm sure he's still rusty. He's playing one of the best defensive lines in the NFL on Carolina. Sheeesh.... give the kid a break. I think his mobility pisses off a lot of tradionalists that would rather see him pass than run. I also think there's a lot of envy and people just love to hate any young athlete that is hyped beyond belief. Whatever the reason, I don't care, I'd love to have him as the quarterback on my team for the next ten years. Favre used to make a lot of stupid decisions when he was young, I'm sure Vick will learn too. The greatest thing about Vick is he's so damn talented, he can make up for a lack of talent around him. The offensive line sucks? Well, Vick will just scramble for a quick ten yards when it breaks down. The receivers suck? Vick will scramble until they get open. The defense doesn't have to worry about the running back? Nevermind, they have to worry about a quarterback just as fast and elusive as the NFL's best running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 R&B, I agree that he's young and will improve. I even said that in my post. I just said that currently the guy is nothing more than a RB taking the snaps. I like Vick. I would love to have him. But I also feel as if there's only so-far a running QB can take you unless he can pass too. That's all. So it's on him to improve in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I think everything Speedwagon has said is pretty much right on. Why did Atlanta only have 14 points? Why did the SKins score more vs. the panthers even though we don't have this awsome weapon? He led the NCAA in qb ranking?? Danny Wuerffel won the heisman, you know what that means?? Nothing. If anyone says that Vick was a great Passer at Tech, then they didn't watch any games. Tech doesn't even have a pro passing game. Vick will create some incredible plays, he will be the Dominique Wilkins of the NFL, but he's only going to go so far on his athletic ability. He will, at some point be forced to pass the ball and unless he improves, he will not be all that great. He will be streaky, great one week, terrible another. That's what he's been since he's been in the NFL and until he proves otherwise, that's what he'll be. His stature and style of play adds up to injuries as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 He is more than a RB taking snaps. Did you see the pass he completed to Brian Finneran along the sideline? He was running full speed to the sideline and threw an accurate pass SIDEWAYS to Finneran tip-toeing the sideline. That was one of the best passes I've seen all season. And he's still rusty from not playing for so long. He's young, so his consistency as a passer will come with time. His running skills are crazy for a QB. My only concern is he isn't durable enough to run as much as he does and stay healthy at the same time. He's had numerous injuries already in his short career. He can't run as much as he did in college now, the hits are alot more violent. He either needs to start sliding every now and then, or hang back in the pocket a little more and wait for something to develop. It's better not to scramble every time no ones open than to end up on IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by NavyDave Watch those old Va tech games or that long run last night to see the reason for the comparisons, though vick isnt gonna lose 7 yds running one play Vick isn't going to break tackles like Barry did. Barry would look like he was stopped, and then come out of the pile unscathed and score a TD. If a defender gets his hands on Vick while he's scrambling, he'll bring him down. He's just not as elusive as Barry was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Do people watch these games, or just talk sh!t? 1) Michael Vick is an awesome talent. 2) He has all of the tools, but is still extremely inexperienced. 3) This is the first game he's played all season. He was breathing hard and visibly winded throughout the entire game. 4) He still ran for over 140 yards.... 5) Warrick Dunn is out for the season, and TJ Duckett is just a slightly better version of Ron Dayne...... they don't have anyone to take pressure off of Vick. While Joey T. and his crew were going overboard, his talent is obvious. Some of these running back comments are ridiculous though. The biggest concern with Vick is that he isn't particularly large or sturdy. If he was playing RB, he would be crushed and powdered into little pieces. Hopefully his career will be long and successful, but I fear he will exit the NFL long before he should due to the pounding he will take. He has about one season of football under his belt, and some of you expect Steve Young numbers. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 CT, how is giving my opinion that Vick will need to improve his passing skills considerably to be an effective QB "just talking sh!t"? If you read my posts, you'll see that I think Vick is unreal running the ball. I think he's got every chance in the world to be a good QB as long as he can get better passing the ball. Now, you can agree or disagree, but it's hard for anyone to straight up tell me that Michael Vick is currently a top QB. He made one or two plays in the passing game and about 10 in the running game. Anyway, I guess I shouldn't have chimed in since I do actually think that he will eventually get to the point where he's great. But if you quickly take a look back at NFL QBs that have been more dangerous with their feet than their arms, they don't have a good track record of taking their teams deep into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Steve Young is the model for Vick. Young was an incredible athlete when he came into the league and made some unbelievable plays. But, until he actually learned how to play QB and became deadly running the offense, he wasn't a threat to win a championship. Same thing for Vick - he has to learn how to run the offense, or he'll just be a flash in the pan, and get himself killed in the process. He can't play streetball his whole career. He's young, still. If he does ever "get" it, watch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Well-said SonnyJ...that's pretty much all I'm trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by codeorama It's only a matter of time before he's hurt again. How right you are. The guy's tiny compared to most of the guys running around out there. Whoever Atlanta's new coach is should instruct Vick to protect himself a little more; hell, a lot more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 If Vick takes the kind of hits he took last night over any extended period of time, I don't see him surviving no matter how gifted he is. The panthers laid some tattoos on him last night, more than a few times. He hurt them with his legs, sure, but man, when the opportunity presented itself they WHACKED him with authority. From that first hit Joe Theismann gushed over... I don't care what Joe says.. he may have felt a little better in that he finally got hit, but when your shoulders hit the ground before your butt does, that ain't a good shot to take, any time. Right after that Peppers clubbed him from behind right across the collarbone... a scramble up the middle got him CRACKED in the head, a fumble that fell in his arms got him CRACKED in the jaw... then beat up even more when he got up and got silly. He sure was exciting.. I kept thinking of how it would be if Arrington was pursuing on that QB Sweep they ran a couple times. But, wow, if he keeps taking those kinds of shots, he's going to get himself hurt again. Other than that, I was pretty welldisgusted by the fawning over his every move by Theismann and MaGuire.. He had Paul Maguire as flustered as a schoolgirl watching N'Sync... he called Julius Peppers "julius Peters" at one point.... And just before the half, Vick got pressed up the middle, and threw fading backwards off the back foot... the ball was up for grabs, tipped by the CB, and almost INT'd by the safety on the carom... and Maguire GUSHED about how amazing a play Vick made to get rid of it... nevermind it was nearly a disaster. Sounds like a cartoon in the makin'.... ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Bang If Vick takes the kind of hits he took last night over any extended period of time, I don't see him surviving no matter how gifted he is. The panthers laid some tattoos on him last night, more than a few times. He hurt them with his legs, sure, but man, when the opportunity presented itself they WHACKED him with authority. From that first hit Joe Theismann gushed over... I don't care what Joe says.. he may have felt a little better in that he finally got hit, but when your shoulders hit the ground before your butt does, that ain't a good shot to take, any time. Right after that Peppers clubbed him from behind right across the collarbone... a scramble up the middle got him CRACKED in the head, a fumble that fell in his arms got him CRACKED in the jaw... then beat up even more when he got up and got silly. He sure was exciting.. I kept thinking of how it would be if Arrington was pursuing on that QB Sweep they ran a couple times. But, wow, if he keeps taking those kinds of shots, he's going to get himself hurt again. Other than that, I was pretty welldisgusted by the fawning over his every move by Theismann and MaGuire.. He had Paul Maguire as flustered as a schoolgirl watching N'Sync... he called Julius Peppers "julius Peters" at one point.... And just before the half, Vick got pressed up the middle, and threw fading backwards off the back foot... the ball was up for grabs, tipped by the CB, and almost INT'd by the safety on the carom... and Maguire GUSHED about how amazing a play Vick made to get rid of it... nevermind it was nearly a disaster. Sounds like a cartoon in the makin'.... ~Bang Not unlike how they continually gush over Brett Favre when he throws off his back foot and gets intercepted. Exciting players who can beat you despite whatever shortcomings you name about them get gushed over. Players who get you Ws and into the playoffs despite whatever mistakes they may make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by fuji869 I am watching this game and we could be 4-9 at this point if we would have faced Michael Vick in Week 2. :doh: Arrington > Vick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Boy, I don't know,, I'd love to see that matchup someday. Vick is so quick it's scary. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'm saying.....North to South....Vick has him....East to West...LaVar punishes....feel me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I dont understand these people saying Vick cant throw!!! He's a young QB he'll have his struggles in the passing game either way. If he had stayed in college the whole way i believe this would be he rookie year??? But for all of you who say he cant pass, are you joking?? Did you watch the game last night??? That INT he threw was a few inches away from being a TD, he slightly underthrew it. Did you see the pass he threaded into Price for a first down?? Or the one to Finneran up the sideline, or the one in the back of the endzone he threw to Finneran that he couldnt keep his feet in but it was close. I mean this guy can really throw, but he still has accuracy problems every once in a while. He can throw better than Donovan Mcnabb though!!! And his accuracy is getting better. His low completion percentage is also b/c teams dont like to rush him, so the Falcons cannot throw many short passes cause the opposing D Line just stands there and bats them away. Therefore the Falcons have to throw more deep passes, and that leads to a lower completion percentage. Plus Dunn was out, and Duckett isnt much of a pass catching safety valve, not that VIck needs a safety valve though. This is by far the best player in the NFL, and if he can stay healthy he is going to be the best and most dominating player ever to play the game. Vick almost took them to the superbowl last year, ALL BY HIMSELF!!!! I've never really seen anything like him, he is amazing. All of his games should be on national TV. There should be a Vick channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 champ = best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Running QB's = No Super Bowl titles...nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Steve Young has 4200 career rushing yards. John Elway has 3400 career rushing yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Cranky, just to play DA here, neither one of those guys won anything until they had been in the league for ten years and stopped running the ball like they had done in the past. Neither of those guys rushed for more than 300 yards in their SB winning seasons. Vick ran for half that last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Henry Cranky, just to play DA here, neither one of those guys won anything until the had been in the league for ten years and stopped running the ball like they had done in the past. Neither of those guys rushed for more than 300 yards in their SB winning seasons. Vick ran for half that last night. Just because Vick is better at running when he chooses to do so than any running QB in the history of the league, he should have that held against him? I also wasn't aware that Vick was expected to win the Super Bowl during his rookie year. Elways legs kept many a crucial late game drive alive. His scrambling was a huge part of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 He won't win. Teams will figure him out. Randall Cunningham ring a bell??? Don't fall for all the hype. And, comparing him to a running back is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The scary part is that Atlanta will probably have a top 5 pick. Add Roy Williams or Kellen Winslow in terms of weapons...watch out. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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