Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, skins4eva said: Bold prediction: I think this will be Gruden's last year. He has all the hallmarks of a good coordinator who was promoted one level above his competence. Nope. He will be back in 2018. Because they just extended him. The only way he's not here in 2018 is if the 'Skins post a 2-14 record and Dan decides he needs to get rid of Allen. If Allen is here, Gruden is here. That's as much of a lock as there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Voice_of_Reason said: Nope. He will be back in 2018. Because they just extended him. The only way he's not here in 2018 is if the 'Skins post a 2-14 record and Dan decides he needs to get rid of Allen. If Allen is here, Gruden is here. That's as much of a lock as there is. Let's see what kind of start we get off to. Our schedule is pretty brutal--have to win games early at home. If we don't, it will be a very long season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 42 minutes ago, skins4eva said: Let's see what kind of start we get off to. Our schedule is pretty brutal--have to win games early at home. If we don't, it will be a very long season. Regardless, I'm not predicting 2-14. So, unless something drastically bad happens, I think Gruden is back. I also have predicted we get run 38-14 against the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 48 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I know folks like to bash the Sherff pick, but I think Scot knew that he had to get the best damn OL available with his first pick, because at that time, the 'Skins had exactly 1 OL that they thought could play: Williams. Moses didn't start and was hurt, Long handn't played yet (I don't think), and Luavao is eh. He knew that if he got the best OL he could with the pick, that player would play SOMEWHERE on the line, and start from day 1. They got REALLY lucky that Moses turned out to be good, and Long has contributed. But I don't knock the pick. But that said: 2015: Sherff (Starter), Preston Smith (Contributor), Matt Jones (Cut), Jamison Crowder (Stud), Arie Kouandjo (Cut), Spaight (Contributor) Jarrett (Sadly injured), Tevin Mitchel (Cut), Evan Spencer (Cut), Austin Reiter (Cut) So 2015 draft has 2 starters, 2 contributors, and thats it. 2016: Doctson (progressing nicely to be the new version of the player we do not mention), Cravens (gone for now), Fuller (contributor), Ionnidis (Contributor), Sudfeld (Cut), Daniels (cut), Marshal (Cut). So, already, just 1 year in, we're down to only Doctson, Cravens, Fuller and Ioannidis on the roster. 1 has left the team, the other is oft injurred, 2 are contributors. Overall, could be a lot worse, but could be a lot better. This is certainly a "glass is half full" analysis. Here is the glass is half empty one: But that said: 2015: Sherff (Starter), Preston Smith (Contributor), Matt Jones (Cut), Jamison Crowder (Stud), Arie Kouandjo (Cut), Spaight (Contributor) Jarrett (Sadly injured), Tevin Mitchel (Cut), Evan Spencer (Cut), Austin Reiter (Cut) Scherff wins Outland trophy, top 5 pick expected to be RT, ends up at RG. Preston Smith, fairly large regression from year 1 to year 2. The league woke up on him. Will he rebound? Crowder #3 WR, great pick. Spaight, still on roster. So 2015 draft has 2 starters, 2 contributors, and thats it. 2016: Doctson (progressing nicely to be the new version of the player we do not mention), Cravens (gone for now), Fuller (contributor), Ionnidis (Contributor), Sudfeld (Cut), Daniels (cut), Marshal (Cut). Doctson, done zip, nothing. Nothing to make anyone feel he will ever do anything. Complete bust at this point. Anything under 60 catches this year will cement it. Cravens. Bust. Fuller, jury out as to whether he will be truly great, but he is certainly good. Ionnadis, contributor at best last season, has the reputation of a very hard worker so we will see. Couldn't be much worse IMO. Over the same draft period the Patriots have 7 starters and 10 additional contributors, and they are drafting from a much worse position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 35 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: Couldn't be much worse IMO. The Draft that we will not mention with the Player we do not name was worse. I will continue to defend the Sherff pick. They needed OL desperately, and they picked the best one on the board. He's a pro-bowl RG. Ok, so he's not a RT. For me, that's a big "so what." You need Guards and Tackles. We got a good one. And Moses is a good RT. One other thing about the draft, if you get a couple starters and a couple reserves out of a draft, that's pretty good. If you hit on more, you got lucky. Even the best organizations have bad drafts. Because football is a people business, and sometimes you just guess wrong. My comment about it could be a lot worse. We've seen worse. But, it could have been a lot better was about both draft classes together. It looks like the 2016 draft class could go down as one of the biggest disappointments in recent memory. Maybe as bad as The Draft We Do Not Mention. I'm not going to label Doctson a bust just yet. We'll see if he can come back and contribute. After 1 year, you can't judge. But if he can't stay healthy this year, he's headed to He Who Shall Not Be Named territory. The Cravens situation is just unfortunate. So we'll see what happens there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 hour ago, TimmySmith said: This is certainly a "glass is half full" analysis. Here is the glass is half empty one: Here's the glass even more half empty: In 2 years, McCloughan drafted 2 starters and 4 contributors....out of 17 picks. In 1 year, Bruce Allen drafted 3 starters and 1 contributor...out of 8 picks. Making Allen look competent at picking talent is the definition of "glass half empty" lol... 14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: The Draft that we will not mention with the Player we do not name was worse. Glass half full take: Any draft where you find your franchise QB is a success. Glass half empty take: That draft class becomes one of the all-time worst drafts in NFL history if Allen and Snyder **** up and let Cousins leave lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Here's the glass even more half empty: In 2 years, McCloughan drafted 2 starters and 4 contributors....out of 17 picks. In 1 year, Bruce Allen drafted 3 starters and 1 contributor...out of 8 picks. Making Allen look competent at picking talent is the definition of "glass half empty" lol... 9 of 10 of 2017 draft made the team this year. Allen's looking more and more competent. And everyone spare me that talk about Scot's draft service. Maybe Scot should have subscribed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: 9 of 10 of 2017 draft made the team this year. Allen's looking more and more competent. Honestly, that means next to nothing to me. How many are still on the team 3 years from now says it all. And everyone spare me that talk about Scot's draft service. Maybe Scot should have subscribed to it. Oh, damn lol ...I'm noticing a certain level of backlash towards Scot lately, and this was even before Craven's "retirement" stuff. And not just here, either...it kinda feels like he's unable to just move on. On a personal level, I don't give a rat's ass what Scot thinks of any of the Skins moves or players anymore...but his random tweets are being given E.F. Hutton status on twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 19 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Glass half full take: Any draft where you find your franchise QB is a success. Glass half empty take: That draft class becomes one of the all-time worst drafts in NFL history if Allen and Snyder **** up and let Cousins leave lol... So, I was "not mentioning" 2008. Not only did that draft give us 3 2nd round pass catchers who couldn't catch (Thomas, Kelley and Davis), it also gave us a Guard who didn't want to play (Rinehart), a punter who I don't even think made the team (maybe he did, but didn't last long) in Brooks and a QB who divided the fan base even though he had no ability to play in the NFL (Brennan.) That remains at the top of my list of worst draft classes of all time. And the "Player we do not mention" has a nickname which would be used to comb your hair. (see what I did there?) 2012 draft gave us a spectacular year of Griffin, 3 great years from Morris, Cousins, and maybe another odd/end here or there. Definitely not an unmentionable draft class. I forget that not everybody remembers my nickname for the 2008 class and player. EDIT: I'm not sure that letting Cousins walk pushes 2012 worse than 2008. But, if he turns out to be the next Drew Brees, and the 'Skins wiffed on 2 QBs in the same draft, it would certainly have an argument. But, the Cult of Colt might be the tiebreaker to make the 2008 class worse. I dunno. I was emotionally scarred for at least 4 years after that debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So, I was "not mentioning" 2008. Not only did that draft give us 3 2nd round pass catchers who couldn't catch (Thomas, Kelley and Davis), it also gave us a Guard who didn't want to play (Rinehart), a punter who I don't even think made the team (maybe he did, but didn't last long) in Brooks and a QB who divided the fan base even though he had no ability to play in the NFL (Brennan.) That remains at the top of my list of worst draft classes of all time. And the "Player we do not mention" has a nickname which would be used to comb your hair. (see what I did there?) 2012 draft gave us a spectacular year of Griffin, 3 great years from Morris, Cousins, and maybe another odd/end here or there. Definitely not an unmentionable draft class. I forget that not everybody remembers my nickname for the 2008 class and player. EDIT: I'm not sure that letting Cousins walk pushes 2012 worse than 2008. But, if he turns out to be the next Drew Brees, and the 'Skins wiffed on 2 QBs in the same draft, it would certainly have an argument. But, the Cult of Colt might be the tiebreaker to make the 2008 class worse. I dunno. I was emotionally scarred for at least 4 years after that debacle. Ohhhhhhh lol...I always assumed Griffin was "He who's name shall not be mentioned" or however it's said lol...assumed that the combo of Griffin flaming out, no other picks still on the roster (outside of Kirk), and giving up a ****load of high draft picks threw that draft class into the mix as worst ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Ohhhhhhh lol...I always assumed Griffin was "He who's name shall not be mentioned" or however it's said lol...assumed that the combo of Griffin flaming out, no other picks still on the roster (outside of Kirk), and giving up a ****load of high draft picks threw that draft class into the mix as worst ever. Chuckle, I nicknamed the draft and player well before the 2012 draft ever took place. Voldemort is referred to as "He Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named" and I was so tired of hearing about Kelley not being able to play, I nicknamed him the same. And just expanded it to the whole freaking draft. Because it was all suck, top to bottom. I think just because of the 2012 Griffin/Morris season, there's no way it can ever compare to the suck that was 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Chuckle, I nicknamed the draft and player well before the 2012 draft ever took place. Voldemort is referred to as "He Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named" and I was so tired of hearing about Kelley not being able to play, I nicknamed him the same. And just expanded it to the whole freaking draft. Because it was all suck, top to bottom. You should put an ES trademark on that **** lol... I think just because of the 2012 Griffin/Morris season, there's no way it can ever compare to the suck that was 2008. Good point...2008 was just flat-out horrendous. Add in the whole Cult of Colt thing like you said, and....*shiver*.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 41 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: So, I was "not mentioning" 2008. Not only did that draft give us 3 2nd round pass catchers who couldn't catch (Thomas, Kelley and Davis), it also gave us a Guard who didn't want to play (Rinehart), a punter who I don't even think made the team (maybe he did, but didn't last long) in Brooks and a QB who divided the fan base even though he had no ability to play in the NFL (Brennan.) That remains at the top of my list of worst draft classes of all time. Some great nicknames out of that class though, including Malcomb Kelley and Fred "Sleepy" Davis. I remember attending a preseason game and watching an undersized Justin Tryon get smoked all game long. Brutal year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, Califan007 said: You should put an ES trademark on that **** lol... Is that a thing? 5 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Good point...2008 was just flat-out horrendous. Add in the whole Cult of Colt thing like you said, and....*shiver*.... And ... we also drafted Cousins, which, regardless of what happens from here on out, has set a bunch of records and played well. The 2012 draft gave us some positive things. Even if some of those things ended up in catastrophe. The 2008 draft gave us nothing but tears. And yeah, the Cult of Colt thing was possibly the biggest negative mark on the mental acumen of the entire fan base. It proved that we were not a smart fan base. Not even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, skins4eva said: Some great nicknames out of that class though, including Malcomb Kelley and Fred "Sleepy" Davis. Don't forget Chris "The Predator" Horton...he had t-shirts made up with that nickname and everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, skins4eva said: Some great nicknames out of that class though, including Malcomb Kelley and Fred "Sleepy" Davis. I remember attending a preseason game and watching an undersized Justin Tryon get smoked all game long. Brutal year. He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named did have a good nickname. But we do not say his name. Not here. The fact that Sleepy EARNED the nickname sleepy is tragic. Nothing but fail. Epic Fail. **** you, Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Califan007 said: Don't forget Chris "The Predator" Horton...he had t-shirts made up with that nickname and everything... I left the best one off!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Califan007 said: Don't forget Chris "The Predator" Horton...he had t-shirts made up with that nickname and everything... If only he could have played, it would have been an ideal marketing campaign. It would have taken over the nation. But, alas, he couldn't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: The 2008 draft gave us nothing but tears. It gave us this image burned into our collective souls: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said: If only he could have played, it would have been an ideal marketing campaign. It would have taken over the nation. But, alas, he couldn't play. He did earn defensive rookie of the month...he's now an assistant special teams coach with the ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, Califan007 said: It gave us this image burned into our collective souls: What are you going to do next? Give me a paper cut and rub lemon juice in it? You evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 The Scherff pick will be debated for a decade and both sides have a legit argument. Yes OL was an immediate need and Scherff is a Pro Bowl player. Now the other side, the side I subscribe to. And that is it was an incredibly safe pick, a guard picking in the top 5 had best be a Pro Bowler. Hell he needs to be Steve Hutchinson great in order to justify the pick. SM passed up a potential game changing player at a position that is much harder to find, a position most of us thinking past the next few games understood was as big of a need as OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, skins4eva said: He did earn defensive rookie of the month...he's now an assistant special teams coach with the ravens. A broken clock is right twice a day. And good for him. He couldn't play, but maybe he can coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: A broken clock is right twice a day. And good for him. He couldn't play, but maybe he can coach. I was jesting. You are absolutely right. The fact that we need to look at the seventh and last pick in that draft is a sad indictment in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said: The Scherff pick will be debated for a decade and both sides have a legit argument. Yes OL was an immediate need and Scherff is a Pro Bowl player. Now the other side, the side I subscribe to. And that is it was an incredibly safe pick, a guard picking in the top 5 had best be a Pro Bowler. Hell he needs to be Steve Hutchinson great in order to justify the pick. SM passed up a potential game changing player at a position that is much harder to find, a position most of us thinking past the next few games understood was as big of a need as OL. We thought we had servicable players on the DL, and we had NOTHING on the OL. And we had a QB that we needed to evaluate, because the story was he was fine, the OL was terrible. If they had picked Williams, and the OL had struggled again, there would have been even more of a clamor that the OL was the problem, and it wasn't Griffin who was holding the ball too long. SM had to do everything he could in that off-season to put as much around Griffin as he could to see if he could play. It turns out he couldn't. And we ended up with a pro-bowl guard. I wouldn't have minded either pick, but I can definitely see why SM made the Sherff pick. And I buy the logic, and I'm fine with the outcome. I would probably have been fine the other way as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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