Ex-NFL RB Joe McKnight killed in road rage incident

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Race has nothing to do with it for ME.  However, for some others it has everything to do with it whether they are cognizant of it or not.  

[No Excuses]

This thread is pretty clear on who understands they live in a civilized, first world country and those who pine for living in a country full of man-children who pull triggers at the slightest hint of danger.

 

This country has a problem of man-babies with anger issues owning guns, without fully understanding the consequences and responsibilities that come along with it.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Race has nothing to do with it for ME.  However, for some others it has everything to do with it whether they are cognizant of it or not.  

Nope. Not everything. Wasn't even a thought in my mind when i started this thread. It's most definitely an element now though. Especially in these times. It's like a story stuck on repeat. Whether it's a cop (pick one), George Zimmerman or here. Same story over and over.

 

As No Excuses pointed out though, guns and grown men acting like children playing out their favorite TV show are the bigger issues here. But there was a thread in the Tailgate a couple of days ago that declared gun talk a non-starter... And then immediately shifted to a discussion about eugenics. So what the **** is the point?

 

Just pray my loved ones aren't the next to cross paths with an asshole finger****ing a pistol while images of Clint Eastwood flash through his mind. I'd advise others to the same. Pray. That's all we got at this point. 

 

And I'm a hard agnostic bordering on atheism. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Stand your (white) Ground.

[mattsb84]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Show me where I ever claimed the first witness' account was gospel?

 

Its just not a coincidence that some of you usual suspects are in here dismissing any notion that the black man didn't deserve to die.

 

The only facts at this time are that a man previously cited for road rage ended up in another road rage situation only this time he murdered a man with no weapon.

 

That alone should be enough to be skeptical of the murderer.  Yet here you guys are...

 

I don't think anyone has said that McKinght deserved to die. I don't think anyone has defended Gassers actions. Facts are important, and they will come to light. If you think thats defending Gasser, it's not. It's defending a process which you may find yourself, or someone you know, a part of and would want the same fair treatment. Gasser being released DOES NOT mean he will not be charged. It simply means they don't have enough evidence to charge him OR are trying to determine what to charge him with based on the evidence at hand. If you aren't charged with a crime, you can't be held in jail, right? 

 

On the other hand, you have the media who immediately and aggressively turn this into a dumpster fire by injecting a bad witness statement, and turning this into a race issue when there is 0 proof for that. And people buy it. I would bet large sums of money that even after the sheriff came out and said that witness statement was incorrect, people still think Gasser stood over McKnight, and yelled at him before firing again. US main stream media is poisonous. It's no longer about reporting just the facts. It's about pushing whichever narrative thats the hot topic at the moment.

 

That said, personally, I can't justify Gassers  use of force here, though I wasn't there and it doesnt matter what I think. Just looking at photographs, he seems unharmed and I don't believe there were any reports of injuries to him. If thats true, how was his life in danger? Can you simply say, "Well there was a big guy coming towards me aggressively and I felt threatened so I shot him"? To me, thats a stretch, but again, let the investigation proceed.

 

Also, on charging witnesses with a felony for providing a bad eye-witness account...terrible idea. I think doing that would reduce eye-witness testimony. Investigators probably rather have more eye witnesses then fewer to put the picture together, right? They're probably more then capable of looking at an eye witness account and saying, "yeah, thats ****"(based on evidence and other eye witness accounts) and moving on. When I served on a grand jury, there were a number of witnesses that refused to testify. One was scared because he had an outstanding traffic ticket and thought the police were coming to arrest him and wouldn't answer his door. He did finally come in, but you already have people that are scared/intimidated (for a variety of reasons) and you want to charge them with a felony if their account is bad? Come onnnnn...nonsense. I don't think you thought that one out too well.

[srtman04]

12 hours ago, Roger.Staubach said:

Has enough evidence been released to determine that this was murder???

Not if your life is in danger.

 

Yeah because clearly the one who was WITHOUT a weapon, and who died, is the bigger threat than the one with a weapon...Wow SMH. 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

2 hours ago, mattsb84 said:

 

I don't think anyone has said that McKinght deserved to die. I don't think anyone has defended Gassers actions. Facts are important, and they will come to light. If you think thats defending Gasser, it's not. It's defending a process which you may find yourself, or someone you know, a part of and would want the same fair treatment. Gasser being released DOES NOT mean he will not be charged. It simply means they don't have enough evidence to charge him OR are trying to determine what to charge him with based on the evidence at hand. If you aren't charged with a crime, you can't be held in jail, right? 

 

On the other hand, you have the media who immediately and aggressively turn this into a dumpster fire by injecting a bad witness statement, and turning this into a race issue when there is 0 proof for that. And people buy it. I would bet large sums of money that even after the sheriff came out and said that witness statement was incorrect, people still think Gasser stood over McKnight, and yelled at him before firing again. US main stream media is poisonous. It's no longer about reporting just the facts. It's about pushing whichever narrative thats the hot topic at the moment.

 

That said, personally, I can't justify Gassers  use of force here, though I wasn't there and it doesnt matter what I think. Just looking at photographs, he seems unharmed and I don't believe there were any reports of injuries to him. If thats true, how was his life in danger? Can you simply say, "Well there was a big guy coming towards me aggressively and I felt threatened so I shot him"? To me, thats a stretch, but again, let the investigation proceed.

 

Also, on charging witnesses with a felony for providing a bad eye-witness account...terrible idea. I think doing that would reduce eye-witness testimony. Investigators probably rather have more eye witnesses then fewer to put the picture together, right? They're probably more then capable of looking at an eye witness account and saying, "yeah, thats ****"(based on evidence and other eye witness accounts) and moving on. When I served on a grand jury, there were a number of witnesses that refused to testify. One was scared because he had an outstanding traffic ticket and thought the police were coming to arrest him and wouldn't answer his door. He did finally come in, but you already have people that are scared/intimidated (for a variety of reasons) and you want to charge them with a felony if their account is bad? Come onnnnn...nonsense. I don't think you thought that one out too well.

I agree with all of this except the witness thing. The people I'm saying should be charged with a felony are not the ones that incorrectly (but innocently) get the version of events wrong. I'm talking specifically about the ones that flat out LIE about the events. I'm sorry, but the witness that said Gasser stood over him and fired the final bullet (or any bullet) in him, deserves to be locked up. And not for a day or two...a very LONG time.

 

Same goes for those idiots that claimed the cop in Missouri killed Micheal Brown with his hands up. They need to do hard time. A message needs to be sent that you can't just go around lying about these things, and nothing will happen to you.

[Wildbunny]

9 hours ago, Roger.Staubach said:

And the charge of simple battery was DISMISSED.  

 

 

 

The fact that charges were dismissed or stuff like that doesn't mean you're innocent. Sometimes, guilty people get away because Justice lacks evidence. That doesn't make them innocent anyway. They're just guilty and lucky.

I know that people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but still, if I was raping a girl and get a free away card for whatever reason I would still be a rapist. (Just an example, no stating I'm one).

 

5 hours ago, Roger.Staubach said:

 

I didn't say that he deserved to die.  The smart thing for both parties would/should have been to just drive on and not look back.  Yet, it appears that neither one was smart enough to be the bigger man.

 

As for the color of his skin playing a role in this?  That is a narrative that you alone appear to support.

 

 

The whole damned thing is a tragedy.

 

Definately a tragedy. People just acts weird when they're in their cars. They thinks they own the road or whatever. Mostly, they're stupid. I've seen tons of guys driving reckless and when you put them in trouble they'll blame you for their reckless driving.

 

4 hours ago, No Excuses said:

This country has a problem of man-babies with anger issues owning guns, without fully understanding the consequences and responsibilities that come along with it.

 

I doubt it's specific to your country, but more of a Human nature thing. Most of us don't grow up an grown-up men, they're just kids with new toys that still think they're 14 or something and can do whatever they want...

 

47 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I agree with all of this except the witness thing. The people I'm saying should be charged with a felony are not the ones that incorrectly (but innocently) get the version of events wrong. I'm talking specifically about the ones that flat out LIE about the events. I'm sorry, but the witness that said Gasser stood over him and fired the final bullet (or any bullet) in him, deserves to be locked up. And not for a day or two...a very LONG time.

 

 

I agree that those should be punished, but put in jail for a very long time seems absurd. A big financial penalty is usually enough for most to not try again.

Prison is supposed to protect people from reckless guys and keep it safe. We tend to send everyone in jail, but mostly, financial fines are enough to keep everyone in line most of the time. Otherwise, jail do more harms than good.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

 

 

 

I agree that those should be punished, but put in jail for a very long time seems absurd. A big financial penalty is usually enough for most to not try again.

Prison is supposed to protect people from reckless guys and keep it safe. We tend to send everyone in jail, but mostly, financial fines are enough to keep everyone in line most of the time. Otherwise, jail do more harms than good.

I bet you might have a different take if it were you or a family member of yours that was being wrongly accused of murdering someone.

[mattsb84]

2 hours ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I agree with all of this except the witness thing. The people I'm saying should be charged with a felony are not the ones that incorrectly (but innocently) get the version of events wrong. I'm talking specifically about the ones that flat out LIE about the events. I'm sorry, but the witness that said Gasser stood over him and fired the final bullet (or any bullet) in him, deserves to be locked up. And not for a day or two...a very LONG time.

 

Same goes for those idiots that claimed the cop in Missouri killed Micheal Brown with his hands up. They need to do hard time. A message needs to be sent that you can't just go around lying about these things, and nothing will happen to you.

 

But who spreads the false eye-witness accounts? The media. If you want to fine/jail those responsible in the media, I'm all for it. I'm not asking for censorship, but restraint on their part. What they're doing is taking the most sensational account given, and putting it out there for the masses without giving the whole picture or a different account. The account they put out, spread like wild fire through social media. Incredibly irresponsible on their part. 

 

Maybe the media shouldn't even report on eye-witness testimony immediately or maybe give more then one account? I don't know the answer for stopping it, but, locking up eyewitnesses for bad accounts is not a good idea. They are not the problem in my mind.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

15 minutes ago, mattsb84 said:

 

But who spreads the false eye-witness accounts? The media. If you want to fine/jail those responsible in the media, I'm all for it. I'm not asking for censorship, but restraint on their part. What they're doing is taking the most sensational account given, and putting it out there for the masses without giving the whole picture or a different account. The account they put out, spread like wild fire through social media. Incredibly irresponsible on their part. 

 

Maybe the media shouldn't even report on eye-witness testimony immediately or maybe give more then one account? I don't know the answer for stopping it, but, locking up eyewitnesses for bad accounts is not a good idea. They are not the problem in my mind.

First off, everyone knows the media is at fault by reporting these false accounts. But there wouldn't be the need to report them if they didn't exist, right? So stop shifting the blame.

 

And your last two sentences are just absurd. A "bad eyewitness account" is totally different than outright LYING about how events unfolded. I clearly explained that in my previous post. I'm not saying to charge someone for giving an account that turns out to be different than what transpired. Again, I'm talking about the ones that are LYING about events that never happened. Those two things are nowhere close to the same thing.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

I bet you might have a different take if it were you or a family member of yours that was being wrongly accused of murdering someone.

Strawman argument hey?

 

Don't bet on something you would most likely lose.

I always thought that a 100.000 bucks fine is more deceptive to everyone than 3 years in jail.

 

31 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said:

And your last two sentences are just absurd. A "bad eyewitness account" is totally different than outright LYING about how events unfolded. I clearly explained that in my previous post. I'm not saying to charge someone for giving an account that turns out to be different than what transpired. Again, I'm talking about the ones that are LYING about events that never happened. Those two things are nowhere close to the same thing.

 

How do you make the difference? Liars are good that at worst they'll make you believe that they didn't lie but made a mistake.

After all, the best lies have some truth attached to it so they're easier to sell.

 

Except maybe for this guy...

[Roger.Staubach]

8 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

Yeah because clearly the one who was WITHOUT a weapon, and who died, is the bigger threat than the one with a weapon...Wow SMH. 

If I am at a stoplight and someone leaves their vehicle and approaches me with rage or threatens me verbally, or reaches into my car to assault me, you can be damned sure that I will do what is necessary to defend my life.  You never know what the other person may be carrying or willing to do.

 

Smh at your ignorance of society.

[Ray-Ban Dan]

bunny, the difference between a witness giving a false account vs lying is not that difficult to decipher. For instance, a witness may say that they saw a white guy pull a weapon, when in fact it was really a light-skinned black guy. Or they might give the description of a vehicle being a black F-150, when it's actually a charcoal grey F-150. Those are obviously both "false accounts", but at the same time they  can easily be construed as innocent mistakes.

 

BUT...a witness saying they saw a guy standing over someone and firing a final lethal shot is NOT an innocent mistake, when forensics later prove that to be impossible. That is a clear example of an outright LIE. There's no grey area there. The witness lied to authorities, and should have to suffer the consequences. I'll ask you the same question I asked the other poster earlier: if that's you or a family member, would you like it if someone accused YOU (or your family member) of murder, when in fact it was later found to be self defense?

 

 

[Ray-Ban Dan]

1 hour ago, Roger.Staubach said:

If I am at a stoplight and someone leaves their vehicle and approaches me with rage or threatens me verbally, or reaches into my car to assault me, you can be damned sure that I will do what is necessary to defend my life.  You never know what the other person may be carrying or willing to do.

 

Smh at your ignorance of society.

Exactly, man. Some of these people act like a person knows at the time of a confrontation that the other person isn't carrying a weapon. Absurd.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

For the record, there is now an additional witness that also indicates he stood over the the guy he murdered and taunted him...but didn't shoot.  It is entirely possible that someone can think they saw something they really didn't due to a number of factors.  

 

...and please gtfo with that you don't know if he has a weapon or not BS.  If by all means you feel a need to flash your weapon so the other party is aware you have it and will protect yourself, then by all means go ahead.  But to actually pull the trigger 3 times tells me this dude ain't right.  

 

I have no no idea why I'm continuing to engage in this dead end conversation, yet here I am.

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 hours ago, Roger.Staubach said:

If I am at a stoplight and someone leaves their vehicle and approaches me with rage or threatens me verbally, or reaches into my car to assault me, you can be damned sure that I will do what is necessary to defend my life.  You never know what the other person may be carrying or willing to do.

 

Smh at your ignorance of society.

 

There is absolutely no evidence that any of that happened.  You are absolutely inventing that entire scenario out of thin air.  Shameful example of jumping to conclusions...which is the exactly what you tell others not to do.  Yeesh!

[Roger.Staubach]

4 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

There is absolutely no evidence that any of that happened.  You are absolutely inventing that entire scenario out of thin air.  Shameful example of jumping to conclusions...which is the exactly what you tell others not to do.  Yeesh!

I never said that any of the above happened.  I was simply explaining castle doctrine.

 

The only part of that hypothetical scenario which seems to ring true at this point is that Mr. McKnight left HIS car and approached the car of Me. Gasser.  (And this is assuming that the scant evidence presented by local police is true.)

[srtman04]

20 hours ago, Roger.Staubach said:

If I am at a stoplight and someone leaves their vehicle and approaches me with rage or threatens me verbally, or reaches into my car to assault me, you can be damned sure that I will do what is necessary to defend my life.  You never know what the other person may be carrying or willing to do.

 

Smh at your ignorance of society.

 

Bravo, do you want a medal? 

[TheGreatBuzz]

On 12/2/2016 at 2:23 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

All the above may be true, but its still crazy that you can shoot an unarmed man 3 times, kill him and walk free less than 24 hours later.

I can't believe all the people here that don't understand that a person doesn't need to be armed to be considered a threat.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I can't believe all the people here that don't understand that a person doesn't need to be armed to be considered a threat.

If an unarmed man is out of his car yelling in your window, couldn't you just I don't know...drive off?  Nah let's pop a kill shot and a few extra in them.  Great idea.

[TheGreatBuzz]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If an unarmed man is out of his car yelling in your window, couldn't you just I don't know...drive off?  Nah let's pop a kill shot and a few extra in them.  Great idea.

Do you know if traffic allowed him to drive off?  I dont.

[Bozo the kKklown]

This country's lust for vigilantism and wanting the world to be like the marvel comics universe is why we are in decline.

[doncherry]

I don't know if race had anything to do with the shooting, or with the shooter being released.  However, if the shooter was black and the victim was white, do you think that the shooter would have been released like in this case.  I have my doubts.

[Roger.Staubach]

23 minutes ago, doncherry said:

I don't know if race had anything to do with the shooting, or with the shooter being released.  However, if the shooter was black and the victim was white, do you think that the shooter would have been released like in this case.  I have my doubts.

Depends on whether the lying witnesses also changed races, I suppose.