Tesla Model 3 Release

[TradeTheBeal!]

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-drivers-have-more-car-crashes-than-anyone-else-s-1851110889

 

Top 3 are Tesla, Ram and Subaru…which should surprise absolutely nobody.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

19 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-drivers-have-more-car-crashes-than-anyone-else-s-1851110889

 

Top 3 are Tesla, Ram and Subaru…which should surprise absolutely nobody.

It does not say Tesla drivers have more crashes. It says they have more insurance claims.

 

You likely aren’t going to file an insurance claim when your clapped out 2019 Mazda gets into a fender bender, but you will when your 2022 Tesla model y gets coal rolled into a ditch. 
 

Teslas are way more likely have comprehensive insurance than other brands because most of them are less than 3-4 years old.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[The Sisko]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:08 AM, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Sales have surged as well. So it’s not at all surprising that crashes have increased. And people die in cars every day. And in motorcycles even more. Death happens. It happens less in Tesla vehicles with autopilot enabled, per mile.

 

However, I will support what ever nhtsa decides. (My emphasis added😈) They are rational and see the ultimate benefit of self driving cars so I have little doubt whatever safety features or limitations they place on the program will be fair and necessary.

 

On 6/11/2023 at 9:14 AM, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

…NHSTA is data driven, which is why I am not concerned about their decision.

So either the data you posted are incorrect or, given the recall, NHTSA found otherwise.

 

Quote

Elon Musk’s Big Lie About Tesla Is Finally Exposed

Back in 2016, Elon Musk claimed that Tesla cars could “drive autonomously with greater safety than a person. Right now.” It was a lie, one that sent Tesla’s stock price soaring — and made Musk among the wealthiest people on the planet. That lie is now falling apart in the face of a new recall of 2 million Teslas. It’s also revealing to the broader public what close observers of Tesla have always known (and the company itself admits in the fine print of its legal agreements): Tesla’s so-called “self driving” technology works fine — as long as there’s a human behind the wheel, alert at all times…

 

…It turns out that when a human uses a “driving assistance” system that steers, brakes and accelerates for them, sometimes they stop paying attention to the road. This wouldn’t be a problem if Teslas could actually drive themselves safely, and the company took legal liability for the actions its software makes when it navigates 5,000 pound vehicles on public roads. But because none of those things is true, users must be poised to rescue Autopilot from itself at any moment, or face having it drive them into an object at high speed–perhaps a semi truck turning across their lane–as has happened on several occasions…

 

…To be clear, if humans were a manufactured part of the Autopilot system, its designers would have taken into account a well-known defect of ours: when we get bored we stop paying attention. A 1983 paper pointing out the “ironies of automation” pointed out a problem going all the way back to behavioral research from the early 20th Century: if automation takes over too much of a task, the human becomes inattentive and may miss the critical part of the task they are needed for, especially if it’s time-sensitive like taking over to prevent a crash. It’s not a matter of being a bad driver or a bad person, no human can monitor a boring task forever without eventually becoming inattentive, leaving them unable to make a complex rescue maneuver on a second’s notice.

 

Of course, all this has been well understood in the specific context of Autopilot for years as well. After the first couple of publicly-reported Autopilot deaths — way back in 2016 when Musk was saying they were already autonomously driving safer than humans — the National Transportation Safety Board began investigating accidents involving Autopilot. In three fatal crashes, two of them in nearly identical circumstances, drivers died because they weren’t paying attention when their Tesla drove them into an unexpected obstacle at high speed. In the two nearly identical Florida crashes, the system was active on a road it wasn’t designed for.

 

What the NTSB found in those three crashes was not a singular defect in Autopilot’s self-driving system per se, because from a legal perspective Autopilot was not technically driving. By calling Autopilot a so-called “Level 2” driver assistance system (using the Society for Automotive Engineering’s arcane levels of automation taxonomy), Tesla created a technology that automates the major controls of the car but leaves the human driver legally in charge. 

 

…But of course all of it rests on the backs of humans behind steering wheels, what Madeline Clare Elish calls “Moral Crumple Zones.” Tesla keeps these paying liability sponges behind the wheel largely through the strength of a statistical lie: that Autopilot is safer than human drivers. Tesla has been officially making this claim in its “Quarterly Safety Reports” since 2018 (though Musk has been making it for longer still), despite the fact that its sweeping statistical comparison doesn’t take into account any of the best-known factors affecting road safety. When road safety researcher Noah Goodall adjusted the best publicly available data for factors like road type and driver age in a peer-reviewed paper, Tesla’s claim of a 43% reduction in crashes dropped to “only 10%… analysis showed that controlling for driver age would increase reported crash rates by 11%.”

TLDR: The Boer Bad Boy lied about what he could deliver, grifted a bunch of rubes out of a ton of money while leaving them holding the bag of liability and the public at risk of being maimed or killed by his “self-driving” not self-driving system which rests on a well known, proven flaw in human behavior.

 

In short, as we’ve heard CC84 parroting ad nauseam, their system is much safer than human drivers. The fly in the ointment is that it’s ability to drive the car is based on something allegedly less safe/reliable than itself, i.e. those same human drivers, even though well known peer reviewed research says that the very nature of the technology itself lulls those human drivers into inattention. Best. Snake oil. EVAR!!

[CousinsCowgirl84]

41 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

So either the data you posted are incorrect or, given the recall, NHTSA found otherwise.

 

Or you don’t understand the context of the recall. The software operates the same exact way today as it did a year ago (before the “recall”). All this recall does is increase the penalty for not paying attention across the board. If you don’t tug the wheel when the car asks to and the autopilot system disengages, you will receive a strike. If you receive 5 strikes your ability to use autopilot will be disabled for a week after which you can use the software again and your strikes are reset to zero.

 

Like I said, users of FSD beta have been under this regime for at least a year.

 

It’s a token gesture “recall” that doesn’t do anything, imo. 
 

I support whatever NTSHA decide. I agree it’s important to keep drivers engaged while using the software. I don’t support disabling autopilot. The recall does not affect any of autopilot or fsds features. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

In short, as we’ve heard CC84 parroting ad nauseam, their system is much safer than human drivers. The fly in the ointment is that it’s ability to drive the car is based on something allegedly less safe/reliable than itself, i.e. those same human drivers, even though well known peer reviewed research says that the very nature of the technology itself lulls those human drivers into inattention. Best. Snake oil. EVAR!!

 

Im not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. The data shows the Tesla’s with autopilot enabled get into less crashes than Tesla’s without autopilot enable. 
 

I agree that the better the level 2 system is, the more likely it is that drivers will be lulled into inattention. And Tesla autopilot is very good.
 

So of course more needs to be done to ensure they are paying attention. I don’t think the latest recall accomplishes that.

[Cooked Crack]

Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective

Quote

Shreyansh Jain was ecstatic in March when he picked up his first electric vehicle, a brand-new 2023 Tesla Model Y. He used a sizable chunk of family savings to buy it with cash. 

 

“We were over the moon!” said Jain, an electronics engineer in Cambridge, England. 

 

His exuberance came to a “grinding halt” one day later, with 115 miles on the odometer, Jain told Reuters. As he drove with his wife and three-year-old daughter, he suddenly lost steering control as he made a slow turn into their neighborhood. The vehicle’s front-right suspension had collapsed, and parts of the car loudly scraped the road as it came to a stop. 

 

“They were absolutely petrified,” Jain said of his wife and daughter. “If we were on a 70-mile-per-hour highway, and this would have happened, that would have been catastrophic.” 

 

The complex repair required nearly 40 hours of labor to rebuild the suspension and replace the steering column, among other fixes, according to a detailed repair estimate. The cost: more than $14,000. Tesla refused to cover the repairs, blaming the accident on “prior” suspension damage. 

 

Jain is one of tens of thousands of Tesla owners who have experienced premature failures of suspension or steering parts, according to a Reuters review of thousands of Tesla documents. The chronic failures, many in relatively new vehicles, date back at least seven years and stretch across Tesla’s model lineup and across the globe, from China to the United States to Europe, according to the records and interviews with more than 20 customers and nine former Tesla managers or service technicians.

 

 

 

[The Sisko]

3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Or you don’t understand the context of the recall. The software operates the same exact way today as it did a year ago (before the “recall”). All this recall does is increase the penalty for not paying attention across the board. If you don’t tug the wheel when the car asks to and the autopilot system disengages, you will receive a strike. If you receive 5 strikes your ability to use autopilot will be disabled for a week after which you can use the software again and your strikes are reset to zero.

 

Like I said, users of FSD beta have been under this regime for at least a year.

 

It’s a token gesture “recall” that doesn’t do anything, imo. 
 

I support whatever NTSHA decide. I agree it’s important to keep drivers engaged while using the software. I don’t support disabling autopilot. The recall does not affect any of autopilot or fsds features. 

 

 

 

Im not exactly sure what you are trying to say here. The data shows the Tesla’s with autopilot enabled get into less crashes than Tesla’s without autopilot enable. 
 

I agree that the better the level 2 system is, the more likely it is that drivers will be lulled into inattention. And Tesla autopilot is very good.
 

So of course more needs to be done to ensure they are paying attention. I don’t think the latest recall accomplishes that.

Let’s just cut to the chase. The core issue is that you’re so hardheaded, enamored with the product, owner, or some combination that you’re willfully trusting a person/company that has proven to be untrustworthy over and over and over again. Hell, not too long ago you yourself explained how the company intentionally programs its algorithms to mislead the user into thinking there’s greater range than actually exists, then followed it up with a “they all do it” disclaimer.🙄

 

Musk is a sociopath and a habitual liar among other faults. It doesn’t matter whether I decide to not buy his product. I’m still subject to being killed or injured by his products with no real way to hold the company accountable because of regulatory capture, legal loopholes, and a demonstrated willingness to obstruct at every turn to avoid any and all responsibility. The Boer Bad Boy certainly isn’t the only one doing this, but he’s arguably the most egregious example and a case in point for why our Govt. can’t ever get anything substantive done, other than further empowering dingleberries like the BBB to schtupp the public. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

15 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

Let’s just cut to the chase. The core issue is that you’re so hardheaded, enamored with the product, owner, or some combination that you’re willfully trusting a person/company that has proven to be untrustworthy over and over and over again.
 

 

 

ah. I see. You are triggered by my love for Tesla vehicles. That’s fine. No need to post bull**** to support your feelings. It’s OK not to like Tesla or Musk. Just don’t post bull**** 🤷‍♀️.

 

These stories are meant to push a Tesla is bad narrative because the media is mad at musk. Tesla, just like every company has issues. Tesla has never been dishonest to me. My experience with the car, software, and service centers have been on point. I’m sure there are people with legitimate horror stories though.

 

15 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

Hell, not too long ago you yourself explained how the company intentionally programs its algorithms to mislead the user into thinking there’s greater range than actually exists, then followed it up with a “they all do it” disclaimer.🙄

 

It is true that every car company does the same thing. It’s not a disclaimer it’s a fact. EPA MPG ratings are all bull****.
 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[CousinsCowgirl84]

28 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

. I’m still subject to being killed or injured by his products with no real way to hold the company accountable because of regulatory capture, legal loopholes, and a demonstrated willingness to obstruct at every turn to avoid any and all responsibility. 

this is mind numbingly stupid and naive. The same could be said for any other product. Lose the anxiety or live in a padded white room. lol.

Edited December 20, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[The Sisko]

19 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

ah. I see. You are triggered by my love for Tesla vehicles. That’s fine. No need to post bull**** to support your feelings. It’s OK not to like Tesla or Musk. Just don’t post bull**** 🤷‍♀️.

 

These stories are meant to push a Tesla is bad narrative because the media is mad at musk. Tesla, just like every company has issues. Tesla has never been dishonest to me. My experience with the car, software, and service centers have been on point. I’m sure there are people with legitimate horror stories though.

 

It is true that every car company does the same thing. It’s not a disclaimer it’s a fact. EPA MPG ratings are all bull****.

 

18 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

this is mind numbingly stupid and naive. The same could be said for any other product. Lose the anxiety or live in a padded white room. lol.

After re-reading each of our posts, it appears to me that you’re the one who’s been triggered. After all, only one of us has resorted to cursing and personal insults. I certainly do have an issue with the way the Boer Bad Boy mismanages his business, manipulates government regulations and endangers the public. Im sure I’ve called out similar cases in the past, strangely enough without your accusations of being triggered.

 

As I said, the BBB isn’t the only one doing this. My problem is really with a government that facilitates the enriching of sociopaths willing to endanger others to make money. 

[China]

A Tesla owner says he got a $14,000 repair bill one day after buying a Model Y. A new report suggests it's part of a much bigger problem.

 

Shreyansh Jain, a former Tesla owner, was hit with a $14,000 repair bill from an issue he encountered less than 24 hours after taking his brand-new Model Y home, a recent report said.

 

Jain told Reuters part of his electric vehicle's suspension broke when he was driving with his family the day after he'd received delivery of the Model Y. He said the car had 115 miles on its odometer when the suspension issue caused portions of the vehicle to come in contact with the road and Jain to lose steering capabilities.

 

The Reuters investigation — which cited interviews with more than 20 customers and 9 Tesla workers, as well as thousands of internal documents — found that Jain was one of thousands of Tesla owners to face issues with the company's suspension or steering over the past six years. The publication reported that while Tesla had publicly denied some of the issues and attempted to put the onus on owners, the automaker was more aware of the issues than it had indicated publicly.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, China said:

A Tesla owner says he got a $14,000 repair bill one day after buying a Model Y. A new report suggests it's part of a much bigger problem.

 

Shreyansh Jain, a former Tesla owner, was hit with a $14,000 repair bill from an issue he encountered less than 24 hours after taking his brand-new Model Y home, a recent report said.

 

Jain told Reuters part of his electric vehicle's suspension broke when he was driving with his family the day after he'd received delivery of the Model Y. He said the car had 115 miles on its odometer when the suspension issue caused portions of the vehicle to come in contact with the road and Jain to lose steering capabilities.

 

The Reuters investigation — which cited interviews with more than 20 customers and 9 Tesla workers, as well as thousands of internal documents — found that Jain was one of thousands of Tesla owners to face issues with the company's suspension or steering over the past six years. The publication reported that while Tesla had publicly denied some of the issues and attempted to put the onus on owners, the automaker was more aware of the issues than it had indicated publicly.

 

Click on the link for the full article

I think the issue is a lack of training at service centers. My service center has always been great, but I have heard stories on line where something ****ty happens a service center and the recommendation is to go to a different service center and the situation is solved in a completely different manner. Not ideal, especially when some sc centers are spread 300 miles from each other.

But I would not pay Tesla 14K unless I did some sort of after market modification (lift and lowering kits are very popular for model y/3)

 

any issue I’ve had so far has been handled for free.  The radio in my m3 stopped working after a sw update, my my had some minor paint issues they fixed even though I didn’t notice them on delivery… and my Mx has a possible issue where the door doesn’t automatically close some times, that could be user error though, I have an sc appointment next week.

 

I thought they were gonna try to screw me on fsd grander because they said they were only going to do transfers on cars delivered in September but my Mx was delayed till December due to demand.. but they honored fsd transfer.

 

 

[Captain Wiggles]

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Gasolines prices are atill subsidized at a price much less than its actual cost, but I think for Hertz the issue was repair costs/insurance rates and depreciation due to Teslas price cuts.

 

 That said it probably doesn’t make sense for a car rental company to offer what is still a niche product which the average consumer has low intelligence about. Operating an ev is different than owning an ice vehicle and the biggest advantages of EVs don’t show up when renting.

Edited January 20 by CousinsCowgirl84

[China]

31 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Gasolines prices are atill subsidized at a price much less than its actual cost, but I think for Hertz the issue was repair costs/insurance rates and depreciation due to Teslas price cuts.

 

 That said it probably doesn’t make sense for a car rental company to offer what is still a niche product which the average consumer has low intelligence about. Operating an ev is different than owning an ice vehicle and the biggest advantages of EVs don’t show up when renting.

 

What an ice vehicle may look like

 

[stoshuaj]

Bad word

Spoiler

I think I got it, thanks KB

Edited January 22 by stoshuaj

[China]

Passengers scream as Tesla detects ghosts in a graveyard

 

A Tesla detected mysterious human figures in a graveyard in an eerie late-night encounter. A man, who wasn't named, was driving through a graveyard when figures began to appear on the vehicle's control screen.

 

The Tesla screen showing human figures in the empty graveyard
 

Accompanied by his fiancé and brother, the trio can be heard screaming in fear as the figures multiply on the screen. The man, a Tesla employee, said: "[I can] confirm this is not an Easter egg Elon added as I’ve tried this many times.

 

"It’s not just picking up the gravestones as even if it was they would show as stationary on the screen."

 

 

Click on the link for the full story

[TradeTheBeal!]

Cucked by a Crosstrek.

 

https://jalopnik.com/watch-a-subaru-crosstrek-best-a-tesla-cybertruck-off-ro-1851195244

[China]

Tesla recalling another 2.2 million vehicles for warning lights that are too small

 

Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.

 

The recall was announced by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which said it discovered the problem during a routine audit of Tesla vehicles.

 

“Warning lights with a smaller font size can make critical safety information on the instrument panel difficult to read, increasing the risk of a crash,” according to the agency’s notice.

Tesla said it is not aware of any crashes or injuries caused by the problem.

 

The problem will be fixed with an over-the-air software update that will not require Tesla owners to bring their vehicles into a Tesla service center.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I wonder what what warning messages they are talking about, I’ve never seen them 🧐

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]