WaPost:As gentrification transforms D.C., one storefront sign captures the tension

[Xameil]

We must all become Randian Superheroes or succumb.

Or how about a responsible business owner and stop blaming others.

She had the opportunity to move...she looked in 1 area and didn't like the rent there either so she closes...so...she looked at 1 other place...looks to me like she wanted to close the business and blame someone else.

1 other location..that's some great market research...

[twa]

We must all become Randian Superheroes or succumb.

 

That is business

[mcsluggo]

This is a really fascinating topic.  I've read a bunch of articles in the last day. 

 

So I pose a few ?s.

 

1- Why does gentrification happen?

2- What should the govt and (more importantly) the community response be to it?

 

gentrification... otherwise known as neighborhood revitalization and economic growth.. should be strongly encouraged.

social safety nets should help to soften the blow to those adversely selected, by providing very target services that look something like:

 

patterned zoning that ensures that some lower cost (perhaps subsidized?  perhaps subsidized, but with sunsetting clauses? displaced local residents get "preferential placement" in these lower cost (subsidized) options??   i dunno??

 

when a neighborhood is booming, the locality has a lot of leverage over potential developers.   its a fine line to walk using that leverage, without killing the new flower that you want to nourish... 

[twa]

..looks to me like she wanted to close the business and blame someone else.

 

 

Nuthin wrong with that , of course selling out for a nice profit is better business.

[Xameil]

Nuthin wrong with that , of course selling out for a nice profit is better business.

Nothing wrong with closing the business no...but blaming someone else? No honor in that.

[tshile]

i've got a real problem with the cause-and-effect relationship you paint here.  

 

i think it is more accurate to say:  neigborhoods decline, get seedy, crime goes up and services go down---    and those that can afford to leave the area, do so.  and so the cost of living there declines, and people that can't afford to live elsewhere (in this expensive area) move there.  

 

the way you describe the situation, particularly the use of "they" makes me pretty uncomfortable... it implies a marauding horde of "them", roaming the city and torching everything in their path.   

 

well, your more accurate way is what I think and what I thought was implied. That's the good people that get caught up in the mix that I was referring to - they either don't see it coming or (for any of a number of reasons) cannot get out. it sucks for them, i genuinely feel bad for them.

 

but the implication (in regards to "they") was meant. to be clear - I haven't lived in these neighborhoods or researched it, so i'm just using what i've heard/read from others. they may not be an actual horde of "them" roaming around torching things, but figuratively speaking it seems to be what happens. neighborhoods are, at a basic level, a function of the people who live in them. if you can draw clear migrations of people out of bad-neighborhoods-gentrefied-to-good into good-neighborhoods-turned-bad then it seems quite clear what is going on...

 

i don't like that it happens but it seems to be what happens. there are, unfortunately, people who just don't give a crap about taking care of their stuff/neighborhoods. they won't make the sacrifices required to hold a standard. they allow it to fall into disarray. it's unfortunate, but it's reality.

 

 

"moving to the suburbs specifically to get away from the scary black people who are going to ruin everything" (white flight)

 

It cracks me up in conversations about gentrification that people describe it this way. If the people moving out, because they see values going down and crime going up, are white and the people moving in are black then it's "white flight" and it's because the white people are "scared" of the black people.

 

I guess moving out because you see your neighborhood going down the drain is just too simple of an explanation. There must be some element of racism in it for whatever reason.

[mcsluggo]

Or how about a responsible business owner and stop blaming others.

She had the opportunity to move...she looked in 1 area and didn't like the rent there either so she closes...so...she looked at 1 other place...looks to me like she wanted to close the business and blame someone else.

1 other location..that's some great market research...

 

its nice living in a world of stark certainty, without any pesky shadings or caveats or moderating qualifications.

 

liberals are so hand-wringing-y and wishy washy... conservatives so decisive, bold and certain.  

its just one mission accomplished after another!    

 

 

 

 

 

[Xameil]

its nice living in a world of stark certainty, without any pesky shadings or caveats or moderating qualifications.

liberals are so hand-wringing-y and wishy washy... conservatives so decisive, bold and certain.

its just one mission accomplished after another!

Ah yes...let's make it political...when there are no politics involved in my comment...

It's called business..

But I guess I should have expected some people to think that hard work is obsolete and things just given to them

[twa]

Nothing wrong with closing the business no...but blaming someone else? No honor in that.

 

If she would have kept it open w/o the change then she is justified in blaming the change.

 

Won't get a lot of sympathy though.....or respect as a business owner

[Xameil]

If she would have kept it open w/o the change then she is justified in blaming the change.

Won't get a lot of sympathy though.....or respect as a business owner

A good business person changes with the times, and cultures. If you don't want to change, you move where you don't have to.

If you don't change and stay...it's still your fault. That's just business...nothing personal..just business. Happens all over the world

[mcsluggo]

well, your more accurate way is what I think and what I thought was implied. That's the good people that get caught up in the mix that I was referring to - they either don't see it coming or (for any of a number of reasons) cannot get out. it sucks for them, i genuinely feel bad for them.

 

but the implication (in regards to "they") was meant. to be clear - I haven't lived in these neighborhoods or researched it, so i'm just using what i've heard/read from others. they may not be an actual horde of "them" roaming around torching things, but figuratively speaking it seems to be what happens. neighborhoods are, at a basic level, a function of the people who live in them. if you can draw clear migrations of people out of bad-neighborhoods-gentrefied-to-good into good-neighborhoods-turned-bad then it seems quite clear what is going on...

 

i don't like that it happens but it seems to be what happens. there are, unfortunately, people who just don't give a crap about taking care of their stuff/neighborhoods. they won't make the sacrifices required to hold a standard. they allow it to fall into disarray. it's unfortunate, but it's reality.

 

 

 

It cracks me up in conversations about gentrification that people describe it this way. If the people moving out, because they see values going down and crime going up, are white and the people moving in are black then it's "white flight" and it's because the white people are "scared" of the black people.

 

I guess moving out because you see your neighborhood going down the drain is just too simple of an explanation. There must be some element of racism in it for whatever reason.

 

white flight is called that because of the way it happened... in a flood, not a trickle.     at least in perception, i'm not sure if reality fully matches perception, but the story is that there were riots (mostly in 1968, following MLK's assassination), and white people RUSHED out of downtowns to the security of the suburbs...  

 

I think what is happening now (gentrification) is different, at its core, and really represents a LOWERING of the white-flight type tensions.  Hell, gentrification takes place precisely because young upwardly mobile people (white and otherwise) are less scared of living in or close to neighborhoods that are primarily a different ethnicity.  

 

This is good for america!  (really)

 

but even though it is overall good, there are people that are negatively impacted.   We should be glad that these good things are happening, AND we should be concerned for the adverse affects on some.  

 

And ideally, when there is a large windfall like this, it is the role of government to ensure that the benefits of the windfall don;t JUST accrue to the newcomers, but that the existing residents also get some benefit.   But, that is a hard thing to do, and can get screwed up royally.   

[mcsluggo]

Ah yes...let's make it political...when there are no politics involved in my comment...

It's called business..

But I guess I should have expected some people to think that hard work is obsolete and things just given to them

 

do you walk around kicking puppies with a permanent personal storm cloud over your head?

[twa]

do you walk around kicking puppies with a permanent personal storm cloud over your head?

 

Does it pay well?

[tshile]

white flight is called that because of the way it happened...

 

Right, a long time ago, when it was clear a lot of people were moving because "omg black people." You can probably see a lot of the decline in the neighborhood being related to money moving out, as opposed to a "type" of person moving in. Whereas today it seems like it's a "type" of people moving in that ruins a community.

 

(and by type I don't mean black)

 

But neighborhoods still go down, and if the people moving out while it's on the decline are white and the people moving in are black, then it's still called white flight. Which is more of what I was referring to.

 

I get that in the 60's people were really racist

 

I don't know how you create rules that allow this process of turning a bad neighborhood into a good neighborhood without hurting the "good people" that get lost in the wash. I just don't see it. I think it's just how the world works sometimes.

 

(for what it's worth I draw a big distinction between "bad" neighborhood and "poor" neighborhood. i think having a bad neighborhood turned into a good neighborhood, as the expense of the people that lived in the bad neighborhood, is fine. i think having poor people chased out of their home because some rich investors decided it was the next "hot spot" is an awful thing to have happen.)

[Xameil]

do you walk around kicking puppies with a permanent personal storm cloud over your head?

Lol nope..in fact no cloud whatsoever...I just love in a world where the sky is blue...is the sky pink with purple polka dots in your world?

[mcsluggo]

...

 

(for what it's worth I draw a big distinction between "bad" neighborhood and "poor" neighborhood.

...

 

I think there is a distinction, too... but in a high cost area like this one, the distinction gets chased away.  How long can a poor but "good" neighborhood stay poor (ie, cheap)?   If it is good, and cheaper than the expensive "good" places nearby, then people will want to move there, and it won;t stay cheap for long.   

 

EVERYONE is looking for good, cheap neighborhoods.

Lol nope..in fact no cloud whatsoever...I just love in a world where the sky is blue...is the sky pink with purple polka dots in your world?

 

i *think* it is... but i can't be sure.  I can't see it clearly without letting go of the tree I'm hugging.   

[Mr. Sinister]

Right, a long time ago, when it was clear a lot of people were moving because "omg black people." You can probably see a lot of the decline in the neighborhood being related to money moving out, as opposed to a "type" of person moving in. 

 

 

I grew up in a town where that happened. Certainly wasn't a long time ago back in the 60's, and it certainly wasn't money related.

[tshile]

I think there is a distinction, too... but in a high cost area like this one, the distinction gets chased away.  How long can a poor but "good" neighborhood stay poor (ie, cheap)?   If it is good, and cheaper than the expensive "good" places nearby, then people will want to move there, and it won;t stay cheap for long.   

 

EVERYONE is looking for good, cheap neighborhoods.

 

Yeah. I guess I'm differentiating between a neighborhood changing over time, and a neighborhood changing quickly due to a coordinated effort (sometimes including local government in the form of raising property taxes as a way of raising the cost of living and chasing people out)

[mcsluggo]

 i think having a bad neighborhood turned into a good neighborhood, as the expense of the people that lived in the bad neighborhood, is fine. i think having poor people chased out of their home because some rich investors decided it was the next "hot spot" is an awful thing to have happen.)

 

i think most people in ANY neighborhood are just getting by the best they can, given their circumstances.  If you took one truly random household from a "bad" neighborhood, and put them in a good neighborhood, in most cases they'd basically be equally good/bad neighbors as everyone else there.  

 

The "halo effect" in a good neighborhood is good, and in a bad neighborhood is bad.  and this leads to self propagating virtuous and vicious circles.   

 

which takes us back to us agreeing that it is a universally good thing for a neighborhood to improve, but it SEEMS like (and i don't wanna put words in your mouth) you think that if a neighborhood really is bad, then that reflects on the majority of the people that make-up that neighborhood... which has implications for how we view what happens to those people when they potentially get squeezed out of a neighborhood

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

White flight was a systemic and intentional destruction of urban neighborhoods by realtors and developers who played on white fears.

 

It wasn't that difficult to do.

 

A realtor finds a "declining" neighborhood - in a sense that the housing stock is older. He moves in one black family to the block that has historically been German or Irish or Lithuanian or Italian. The black family has made enough money to move out of the ghetto into the middle class. Hurrah.

 

That realtor than goes house to house in the neighborhood convincing every homeowner that "The N------ are coming in" and they need to sell now while they can get a good price. And - oh - I know a place on Long Island/New Jersey/ Fairfax that is perfect for you.

 

They sell to one or two black families and now its a sprint to get out.

 

However, the price has dropped. So, the people left are panicked.

 

Here come the slum lords. Sell them the house. They will split it into apartments. They can charge relatively high rents on those apartments because the market of people who will rent to blacks is actually relatively small - driving up costs. Now, the block that had 30 family homes has 30 apartment houses with landlords that don't give a damn. And it's a slum.

 

Which means that the first black family moved out of the ghetto only to have the ghetto overtake them within a few months. (That's how fast it could take place).

 

I've read several books on this pattern and - weirdly - the best description of it I ever read was in Howard Stern's Private Parts. His parents actually refused to flee their neighborhood and his school went from nearly all white to nearly all black practically overnight.

[tshile]

which takes us back to us agreeing that it is a universally good thing for a neighborhood to improve, but it SEEMS like (and i don't wanna put words in your mouth) you think that if a neighborhood really is bad, then that reflects on the majority of the people that make-up that neighborhood... which has implications for how we view what happens to those people when they potentially get squeezed out of a neighborhood

That's a fair way of describing how I feel. Keeping in mind I'm rather ignorant on the issue - I don't work in that industry/field (research or house/urban development) and I've never gone through it (on either end.)

 

Yes, I don't really care when people are squeezed out a neighborhood I wouldn't feel safe letting my 15 year old daughter walk down at 10 pm on her way home from a friends house. Or a neighborhood that when I go to get the mail I look down the street and reasonably assume the person I see stopping by a house is there to buy/sell drugs.

 

Which is much different than saying - the people in this neighborhood don't make a lot of money and therefore their houses are not in the greatest condition and worth a lot of money.

 

I feel bad for poor people who get the short end of the stick. I don't feel bad for bad people who get pushed around for whatever reason.

[mcsluggo]

I grew up in a town where that happened. Certainly wasn't a long time ago back in the 60's, and it certainly wasn't money related.

 

i think that certainly still happens.   But thankfully less often, and at a decreasing rate.  

 

(don't tell anybody, PARTICULARLY not a realtor... but there is a black family living across the street from me in McLean, and Jews next door)

 

 

 

by the way... what town are you referring to?  and when did the flight take place?

[Predicto]

White flight was a systemic and intentional destruction of urban neighborhoods by realtors and developers who played on white fears.

 

It wasn't that difficult to do.

 

 

 

 

Nowadays they are selling gold and guns.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

i think that certainly still happens.   But thankfully less often, and at a decreasing rate.  

 

(don't tell anybody, PARTICULARLY not a realtor... but there is a black family living across the street from me in McLean, and Jews next door)

 

 

 

When I was in college, one of the jokes was that Ivy Club used to accept only rich, white applicants but they had progressed to the point that they would accept rich people of all races.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Cities experience their greatest growth when people with lots of money are behind the agenda. Poor people living in our downtowns over the past few decades led to a rise in crime, decay, drug use, and a complete abandonment of civic development.

 

It takes money to build great cities. A lack of money kills cities.  As much as you might complain that your favorite taco restaurant was suddenly replaced with another gastropub that serves organic kale chips, I embrace it as a sign of growth.  There are a host of cities that would love to have DC's gentrification "problem".