Colin Kaepernick signs 6 year 126 million dollar contract w/ 49ers

[darrelgreenie]

Kaep and the other "mobile" QBs add a lot more to their teams then their passing numbers.

Read option QBs not only bring key rushing yards but their running threat makes it possible for those teams to have dominant running games. But that's actual football logic not empty rhetoric.

[darrelgreenie]

Just passing:

 

Tannehill---59%-7,207 yds-36 td-30 int-79.1 rating
 

Luck---------57----8,196-----46 td-27 int-81.5
 

Kaep--------60----5,046------31 td-11 int-93.8
 

Russell------64----6,475------52 td-19 int-100.6
 

Griffin--------63----6,403------36 td-17 int-91.5
 

Cam----------60---11,299----64 td-42 int-86.4

[jflow78]

Kaep and the other "mobile" QBs add a lot more to their teams then their passing numbers.

Read option QBs not only bring key rushing yards but their running threat makes it possible for those teams to have dominant running games. But that's actual football logic not empty rhetoric.

I agree they add something to the team that the "passing" QBs don't (though Luck is successful running as well).  However, Marshawn Lynch and Frank Gore did just fine without Wilson and Kaepernick, and like I said previously, the 49ers ran more often than they passed last season, and the season before (and subtract all of Kaepernick's runs from that and they passed 4 times more than they ran, so it's not as if his rushes made an enormous difference, they were still a run heavy offense for the "modern" NFL).  The year before it was exactly the same.  

 

The 49ers don't NEED Kaepernick to win games.  Does he put them "over-the-top"?  Not so far.  (But that's actual football fact, not empty football philosophy  ).

 

The same can be said for Wilson.  Dominant running game and defense, neither of which NEEDED the QB to be successful before they had said QB.  We're not talking about no-name RBs or defenses (or even WRs as far as the 49ers WRs are concerned).

[jflow78]

Just passing:

 

Tannehill---59%-7,207 yds-36 td-30 int-79.1 rating

 

Luck---------57----8,196-----46 td-27 int-81.5

 

Kaep--------60----5,046------31 td-11 int-93.8

 

Russell------64----6,475------52 td-19 int-100.6

 

Griffin--------63----6,403------36 td-17 int-91.5

 

Cam----------60---11,299----64 td-42 int-86.4

Your stats just prove the point even more (especially when you think that Griffin has missed how many games and still has comparable stats).  Tannehill and Luck have which top 10 RB and defense?  Those guys are carrying their teams while Kaep and Russell are more along for the ride, IMO.  It's a great move when you have a great defense and running game (like Baltimore with Flacco).  It's a recipe for major success when you've got a QB who isn't a great passer.  None of these guys are Brees, Manning, or Brady (Kaep or Wilson).  They're not as valuable to their teams, and none of their teams would suddenly NOT go to the playoffs without them.

 

With Luck it's a completely different story.

[bedlamVR]

Just want to say bubble screen raised RGIII in this thread (well responded to an innocuous comment when someone asked what does this contract mean for how much we will have to pay Robert when his time is due, where he went on to say RGIII is not worth half as much as this deal). You dismiss our QB at any opportunity - You don't want to discuss him (and i mean discuss him) stop the drive by attacks.

How you can dismiss missing the entire off season, the evolution of the offense, the rehab of an injury on both knees, the loss of building chemistry with his WRs as not an excuse - so in effect saying it had no effect ... really ?

And he played in a "micky mouse offense that was figured out:" - really so the RO element of the Eagles and Nick Foles was micky mouse the RO the Bengals the 49ers Seahawks and Panthers amongst others utilized so effectively (maybe more so than in 2012) has all been figured out ...

I think what happened last season with the Redskins was a coaching team who put an emphasis on system struggled to adapt, tried to bow to public pressure to hammer RGIII into a pocket passer in an off season where he had no time to adapt thanks in part to a bone headed decision by the same coaching staff to leave him in a game where he was obviously hurt, and without the roster to support such a change (specifically the offensive line which everyone saw for the last 2 or 3 years struggled in drop back pass protection) - The same coaching staff that had posted 10+ losses in the seasons before RGIII and gave up when we were 3-6 in 2012.

Trying to get back to topic I think Griffin is going to be fine and and I think what this deal does is outline the structure of a future deal possibly where teams are going to demand written in performance expectations for these young QBs rather than a pay and hope attitude that has occurred in the past. Is Collin worth it ? To the 49ers he obviously is - and you can only pay the players you have on your roster and if you like a player and want him to play a particular role then you have to at some point pay him in accordance to others in a similar role. CK has helped the 49ers get to the next level -

my only concern is 49ers in the past have selected guys with elements in their personality that are questionable - there is no doubt CK is a clever guy - but he does not come across as smart and with that much change jangling in his pocket he has to be careful not to loose focus . I know the team has escape clauses in the contract which only heighten those concerns but I am sure he is going to work out for them.

[darrelgreenie]

you have missed my point.

It's not just the rushing yards that the read-option QBs add to the running game. They add the threat of read option. This means that even when they aren't running the ball themselves the defense is forced to account for the possibility that they might run EVERYtime their offenses come out in a read option formation. And it's this threat that makes it easier for their teams to run the ball.

And the teams running more PROVES my point. Those teams have an easier time running the ball with read option QBs. It's not a knock at all that those teams run more then pass. The object of a football game isn't to win by passing more the object of a football game is to win.

And if Seattle and 49ers don't need Kaep and Wilson because they had dominant run games and defenses before them why are they going to NFC championships and winning SBs now?

TLDR: The read option QBs force the defense to account for them because of the THREAT of them keeping the ball in read option formations. This makes it easier for their respective RBs to have success.

[darrelgreenie]

Lol, those stats doesn't show what you think it shows except for the obvious similarity between Tannehill and Luck's production. Oh, and btw both of them have top 10 defenses in points allowed, only a inexperienced fan judges defense based on yards.

One thing is clear though. Luck's production doesn't warrant the lofty praise heaped on by the sports media. And that even without factoring in the rushing yards.

[darrelgreenie]

-Kaep deserves his money.

 

In 2 years starting he's been to the NFC championship game and the SB.

And Kaep is only getting better.

 

Wilson deserves to be paid top dollar as well.

As does Cam and Luck.

 

This year will be critical to whether Griffin and Tannehill vault themselves into the 100 mil club.

But with good season I expect both to make it.

[jflow78]

you have missed my point.....This makes it easier for their respective RBs to have success.

I got your point, and I agree that the read-option helps, but I disagree that Kaepernick is as valuable as you believe.

 

The 49ers were having a fantastic season before Kaepernick began starting games, then half way through the season Alex Smith got injured, and then they switched and continue on without a hitch.  All that tells me is that it doesn't matter who's at QB for them.  They were 6-2 with Alex Smith, then went 6-2 with Kaepernick.  Also, the year before, they won two playoff games and ended up losing to the eventual SB champs (Giants) that previous year.  You can't convince me a team that put up 36 in one playoff game, then lost to the SB champs 20-17 in OT couldn't have gone farther if they hadn't met up against the eventual champs.

 

I seem to remember Harbaugh saying that they'd been watching RG3 during the season and studying the read-option and added some of it during the season, so I don't believe they ran read-option in Kaepernick's first year, and if they did, it wasn't until later in the season, even later than just the switch to Kaepernick.  Kaepernick and Smith actually both passed the ball the exact same number of times that year, so it's not as if that change caused them to run the ball even more, they were still running just as much.  And the 49ers ran more the year before Kaepernick started for them, not a lot, but it shows their number of rushing attempts had nothing to do with Kaepernick or the read option.  Frank Gore needs neither the read-option, nor Colin Kaepernick to have success.  He was running well even before Harbaugh got there.

 

As for Wilson, again, it's hard to claim Wilson is the difference maker when the rest of the team does so much more than he does.  I'm not saying the read-option isn't a valuable portion of their play books, but to claim that they're losers without those two QBs isn't realistic.   Both QBs have a TEAM around them, not built around them.  Sorry, their winning has less to do with whose playing QB than it does for the Colts or Redskins.  

 

And those stats show exactly what I said, you just might not like that they don't fully support your theory.  It shows 2 QBs who've been asked to do less than just about anyone else on that list.

-Kaep deserves his money....

 

This year will be critical to whether Griffin and Tannehill vault themselves into the 100 mil club.

But with good season I expect both to make it.

Then Trent Dilfer should have made out like a bandit.  He won a SB after all and he threw the ball more than Kaepernick did during the Ravens SB run that season (starting the same number of games and during a running era), if that's the only judge.  Not to mention, the 49ers seem to agree with me more than they do with you, considering the structure of that contract.  They paid a steep price to be able to cut Kaepernick at any time without future repercussions.  That tells me they aren't sold on him as the best option at QB for them in the long run.  If they hadn't structured the contract that way, then I don't think Kaepernick would be getting 19-20 million per season.

 

The last statement, I agree with.

[darrelgreenie]

Your argument does more to support Tannehill then Luck.

Tannehill has less talent on offense then Luck yet his production is close.

 

Luck had more receiving talent then every QBs we've discussed.

Yet his passing numbers don't reflect that.

At some point the rhetoric has to stop and you have to be able to point to production.

You can easily point to Wilson's production winning the SB and being better in every meaningful production metric.

 

We can agree to disagree.

Luck 'being asked to do more' is a point that is tough to support in light of his superior receiving talent and the absence of proof that he's actually doing more.

And arguing against Wilson in face of his success just seems petty.

 

-Cheers

[bobby tripod]

I don't even know why I bother responding to someone that thinks Luck is "mediocre". So what would you call a QB that led his team to a 3-10 record? Surely you aren't dumb enough to think RG3 is better than Luck. There is ZERO evidence to back you up on that. That just screams "I'm a clueless homer"!

And I love how you say Luck threw a lot of INTs in 2012. It was his ROOKIE season! Hell, PEYTON threw more INTs his rookie season, if I'm not mistaken. And please don't further embarrass yourself by saying RG3 only had 5 picks. Just, don't.

I swear, Luck haters will come up with the most RIDICULOUS arguments to avoid giving the guy credit. It's truly sad.

You honestly can't be dumb enough to think that Luck carries the team on his back, do you? I remember his "first pass in the NFL". A little dump off pass to Donald Brown, who ran it for 63 yards for a touchdown...63 yards. However, all you heard was that Luck's first pass in the NFL was a touchdown, I should've know everyone would be brown nosing this kid ever since. From the beginning, Luck has been riding his team to victory, not carrying them on his shoulders. I just don't understand why he gets so much credit for things he didn't do, could you explain that to me?

I also find it funny how Luck fans make excuses for him. So Luck's rookie season doesn't count? Does that mean RG3's doesn't either? You're praising Luck's sophmore season, now does RG3's season count? The one where he came back cold off the bench after major surgery?

[jflow78]

Your argument does more to support Tannehill then Luck....

-Cheers

I'm not a Luck lover.  I didn't believe all the hype before the draft, so, as I stated before, I don't think the guy is infallible.  I think he's doing a pretty good job without any semblance of a run game.  If Kaepernick or Wilson were thrown into that same situation, I seriously doubt they get their team to the playoffs two years in a row.  Reason 1 is that defenses can game plan around them and not worry about the run game.  Reason 2 is that they're not as strong passing.

 

Of course, all of this, your opinion, mine, and pretty much everyone on here, is impossible to prove.  Just a discussion.  

 

As far as Luck vs Tannehill, I've liked Tannehill since he was coming into the draft from Texas A&M.  How can you not be impressed with a guy that learned possibly the most complicated cerebral position in sports 2 years before getting drafted and leading an NFL team right off the bat.  He's done a phenomenal job, and I was hoping we'd draft him if we missed out on Griffin (my favorite from that draft) or Luck.  So, I have no problem with what you said regarding those two.  I haven't spent time looking at him versus anyone, so I can't really say.

 

I don't think it's all that hard to say Luck is asked to do more than Kaepernick, (look at their attempts, then at their runs, Luck outdoes Kaepernick on both stats.  So, whether he's asked to throw or run, he's asked to do those things more often then Kaepernick is, what's debatable about that?).  Nor would I say Luck has better receivers than Kaepernick, and I don't think it's that close.  I'd have taken Kaepenrick's receivers both of the last two seasons over Luck's.  

 

I think it's harder to try and prove that TY Hilton, an old Reggie Wayne, and Coby Fleener are a better receiving group than Anquan Boldin, Vernon Davis, and Michael Crabtree (when healthy, which he was the season before last), or even Mario Manningham (42 receptions during their SB season), and an old Randy Moss (during the 49ers SB season, as big a douche as the guy is).  As for Wilson, I agree, Wilson does have less receiving talent on his team, but he also had the BEST defenses in football (number 1 in yards against, for us novices, and number 1 in points allowed, for you seasoned experts).

 

I'm fine with not agreeing, I just like the discussion.

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

How the hell does this keep happening? Every time...
 

[KuNiT21]

Mehh.....Luck hasn't showed me anything in the last 2 years except that he is a good QB.  Not great.  That division has arguably the worse teams talent wise in the NFL the last 4 years.  The Texans were EXTREMELY overrated because that division was so awful and Foster/Johnson/Defense went  beastmode for a bit.  What happened when they actually played a good team....they got smoked, especially in the playoffs (Patriots).  Not 100% sure but I don't think they won a game in the playoffs either.  That division does a great job at making mediocre teams look good.  6 games against the Texans/Titans/Jags!  Colts were a 6-10, 7-9 team in other divisions.  

 

With that being said, Luck will be a great QB for years to come.  Once they get the pieces around him, he will shine.  It's not IF, it's just when.  Maybe it's this year, maybe its next.  However right now he has not shown me he is better than RG3, Wilson, Kap at this moment.

[darrelgreenie]

Jflow-

I think you confuse the Colts style of offense as evidence of "doing" more. The Colts pass a lot. Okay.

More passing attempts is evidence of style not of ability. The Colts with Bruce Arians and as whole are built to pass. Now if Luck's production was better then you'd have an argument about him doing more. But right now he just passes more often. Heck who knows maybe they would be better off if they did use read-option as a major part of their offense.

Crabtree missed most of the season.

[Roger.Staubach]

 

This year will be critical to whether Griffin and Tannehill vault themselves into the 100 mil club.

But with good season I expect both to make it.

It is strange, to me, to see Griffin and Tannehill in the same sentence.  RG's talent is so vastly superior to Tannehill that it is laughable.  However, given the performance of both the last 2 years, you may be on to something...

[darrelgreenie]

It is strange, to me, to see Griffin and Tannehill in the same sentence.  RG's talent is so vastly superior to Tannehill that it is laughable.  However, given the performance of both the last 2 years, you may be on to something...

The talent comparison between Tannehill and any QB isn't laughable for people that follow closely though. Tannehill's physical tools are up there with anyone.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Kap's money is there only if he plays well, I think only 12-13 million is guaranteed and he has to perform hit incentives for him to get anything else.  Very friendly contract for the 49ers.  It was described in an ESPN article that it was basically 7 one year contracts that gives the 49ers a lot of wiggle room.  Also, if he does perform and earn the money, he is only going to average 12.8 to 17.4 million annually between 2015 and 2018, and that is below the NFL average for elite QBs (who average more than 20 million/yr).

 

As far as RGIII, well, I don't care what they pay him as long as it is cap friendly and he produces this year and next year.  I wouldn't mind them activating the 5th year clause if they feel the need to do so.  

[jflow78]

Jflow-

I think you confuse the Colts style of offense as evidence of "doing" more. The Colts pass a lot. Okay.

More passing attempts is evidence of style not of ability. The Colts with Bruce Arians and as whole are built to pass. Now if Luck's production was better then you'd have an argument about him doing more. But right now he just passes more often. Heck who knows maybe they would be better off if they did use read-option as a major part of their offense.

Crabtree missed most of the season.

Yeah, you're probably right man.  I'm just saying I think Kaepernick isn't worth as much as a QB who can carry a team.  I don't think Kaepernick does.  Not like Brady, Manning, or Brees, but he's paid like those guys.  I just think it's a poor usage of funds.  Again, just my opinion.  

 

I know Crabtree missed most of last season, but the one before he was healthy.  I was trying not to just go on what happened last season.  

 

Don't get me wrong.  Kaepernick is a far cry from guys who can only run the ball, I just remember Phil Simms yapping on and on about how accurate he was, but the guy kept missing passes throughout the SB.  I've watched him since then, and still don't see him as a very good passing QB, on the whole.  I think he's an over-rated passer, and a fantastic runner.  I just don't think I'd pay the guy that much for being good at the part of the game he's doing 20% of the time when he should be far better at the part of the game he's doing 80% of the time (throwing the ball).

 

Again, I think the 49ers agree with me, since his contract is structured so they can drop him any time they want.  I just don't think the team has any confidence in the guy, long term.  I think once teams figure out how to defend the read-option better, Kaepernick is pretty much finished.

[eaglesfandan]

Again, I think the 49ers agree with me, since his contract is structured so they can drop him any time they want.

That was the most interesting part of the contract to me, and I agree with you.

[jflow78]

That was the most interesting part of the contract to me, and I agree with you.

FINALLY!  Someone of intelligence on here....

 

Oh wait, you're an Eagles fan (I kid, I kid).

[eaglesfandan]

FINALLY!  Someone of intelligence on here....

 

Oh wait, you're an Eagles fan (I kid, I kid).

No worries this isn't supposed to be a friendly place for division rivals lol. Being able to cut him at any time speaks volumes IMO.

[jflow78]

No worries this isn't supposed to be a friendly place for division rivals lol. Being able to cut him at any time speaks volumes IMO.

I agree, and I really was just messing with you.  Fans of other teams are always welcome on the boards here, as long as you're respectful, not a troll, and can keep your temper at bay (which is why lots of Skins fans get kicked off the boards here too). 

 

We've got lots of Dallas and Eagles fans, some Giants fans here too, so you're not alone man.  Most of us can have a good discussion without crossing the line.  lol

[Smurf85]

-Kaep deserves his money.

In 2 years starting he's been to the NFC championship game and the SB.

And Kaep is only getting better.

Wilson deserves to be paid top dollar as well.

As does Cam and Luck.

This year will be critical to whether Griffin and Tannehill vault themselves into the 100 mil club.

But with good season I expect both to make it.

Lol Kap has had a top 5 defense since he started in this league. He threw 2 picks and had a lost fumble in the second half of the NFC championship game last year.

So the 49ers defense and overall team earned this contract for Kap. It's not hard to play QB when you have one of the best offensive lines and you know if you turn over the ball. Your defense will probably bail you out.