White Board: Football 1-0-1 for laymen like GHH. DL gap techniques and the Redskins new front.

[darrelgreenie]

Regardless of what happens schematically I am positive the defense is gonna be better. (how could they be worse, lol)

Even if there are no schematic changes and its all empty coachspeak rhetoric I believe the defense will be better. Adding Hatcher and having a healthy Kerrigan are gonna add to the pressures generated from the DL/front 7 and that will make the defense better.

Then there is further potential benefit along the DL IF Baker's increased playing time equals more production.

Replacing Fletcher, who had become a liabiliy, with the combo of (my guy) Hayward, Sharpton and Akeem will make the front 7 better. Then there is the HUGE ancillary benefit of having that trio on special teams which will improve field position which will make the defense better.

[KDawg]

To piggyback..... Rob Ryan 2-gaps his DL and when Hatcher played under him he had the 3rd most pressures for a 34 DE behind Watt and had 42 pressures for frame of reference Cofield, our best penetrator on the DL, had 41 pressures last year.

 

Yup.

 

I think what gets lost in the 2-gap explanations, as most of us try to leave it simplistic (and I'm guilty of this, too), is that their first job is to take up space and clog gaps. But as a whole, their job is the same as anyone else's: Make a play. Some guys can do that by moving an OL into the next gap over and putting their body in the primary gap. You're playing two gaps by doing that and allowing yourself a chance to make a play. Some guys are excellent at splitting that double team and making a play. Some guys are good at taking up the blockers just long enough to let the LBs flow and then ripping off and making a play.

 

Just because their primary job is to play two gaps, doesn't mean that their job is over when that happens.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd love to see more overflow, too.

We have all of these toys but I've seen about five true overflows in the last two seasons or so.

If this team gets a two score lead I'd like to see Rak and Kerrigan on the same side on the first third down of the following series.

Obviously less "scheme" related and more "bone to pick" related, but let's see some creativity.

I honestly can't remember 1. But then that probably explains just how few there's actually been. Predictability hasn't been the word from Jim.

Hail.

[goskins10]

I honestly can't remember 1. But then that probably explains just how few there's actually been. Predictability hasn't been the word from Jim.

Hail.

 

Run out of likes for today so consider this a like!  I have been saying for a few years that we seem predictable. If I can see it then surely people that are paid to see it can.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think the reason that misconception persists is that it has been explained that in a 2-gap DEF the main responsibility of the DL is to occupy blockers to keep the LBs clean. Conversely, in a 1-gap DEF the DL “attacks” a gap and is not responsible for occupying a blocker(s).

If the above explanation of 1-gap vs 2-gap is accurate, then it is pretty obvious why people would think the 1-gap is more of an “attacking” style of DEF. I’m not sure anyone has said 2-gap DEF do not “attack” at all (at least I wouldn’t say that).

If I’m misinformed on the differences between the two styles let me know…because I very well could be and I would like to know.

I'ma give you a gold star AW. All good students get one. -. (But the geeks don't just because. *Grins.).

Your basic premise is accurate man. Have no doubt there. Just don't bracket guys specifically to think that's their only responsibility. For example, 2 gap guys still have a responsibility to play the run, and as Coach simply stated, to 'make a play' if one presents itself.

Run out of likes for today so consider this a like! I have been saying for a few years that we seem predictable. If I can see it then surely people that are paid to see it can.

One would think huh? I hate the standard excuse of 'the coaches know best.' Well not always. And we have some super smart people on these here boards when it comes to football and if they see things that are wrong then it invariably is.

What's the definition of insanity again?

It's last chance saloon time for him now though.

Hail.

[SWFLSkins]

Anytime you can add or incite more football conversation (as opposed to the run-of-the-mill venting/screaming/spewing) you raise the level of the board GHH, atta boy!

 

The analytical, chess match aspect of the game is completely lost on some, maybe because they don't grasp it or never had it explained clearly or maybe because they're just dense, but it is the core of the game. Exposing the inner workings and explaining the mechanics of why one guy "fits" and another doesn't can only draw more fans in to appreciate the game better.

 

Many times this is the cause of one player getting the bad rap for no real reason. 

They've never had a TE coach before, and our TE play struggled last year. So they wanted to give me that unit and see what happens.

 

I love the opportunities. Doesn't make a difference to me what I coach. I just want to coach.

 

Was the challenge to change performance and production- scheme based or technique mostly?

[KDawg]

Many times this is the cause of one player getting the bad rap for no real reason.

Was the challenge to change performance and production- scheme based or technique mostly?

Mostly technical. They were getting reps in blocking and not receiving as they worked mostly with the OL coaches. So they put me with them as an OL coach plus I can teach releases and routes.

They figured it would work well. The TEs are also H/U backs so it'll be a fun position to coach. Second weekend of spring practice this weekend.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Mostly technical. They were getting reps in blocking and not receiving as they worked mostly with the OL coaches. So they put me with them as an OL coach plus I can teach releases and routes.

They figured it would work well. The TEs are also H/U backs so it'll be a fun position to coach. Second weekend of spring practice this weekend.

 

See. Even Coaches come to the White Board for tips. 

 

How cool is that?   

 

Hail. 

[darrelgreenie]

Good breakdown of our base defense and based on Haslett's comments the S/W will play less contain and maybe the J/M will scrape over and share contain with the SAFs?

 

 

Matt Bowen/Bleacher Report

 

As you can see in the diagram, the defensive ends (E) are aligned over the offensive tackles (5-technique) and are responsible for playing the “2-gap” in the B and C gaps. The nose tackle (N) is aligned head-up versus the center (0-technique) and must play both A-gaps.

At the second level, both inside linebackers, Mike (M) and Jack (J), align over the “bubbles” (uncovered offensive lineman) and fill in the A/B gaps. On the edge, the Sam (S) is aligned in a 7-technique outside the tight end (Y), and the Will (W) is in a 6-technique.

Now, let’s check out the alignments of the 3-4 Okie front using the All-22 tape of the Patriots versus the Buccaneers’ Regular/21 personnel (2WR-1TE-2RB) out of a Pro Strong I formation.

 

 

Credit: NFL Game Rewind

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front#articles/2007958-nfl-101-the-basics-of-the-3-4-defensive-front

[KDawg]

On run to/run away, the run responsibilities will change. And then again when they see flow, be it fast, slow or trap flow.

 

It all depends on what Has is having the DL do. But if the DL is told: "go to the gap to the backside of the run" then the linebackers (inside) will scrape to the playside gap. If the play hits inside, they'll close the playside gap. If it starts hitting further, they scrape to the next "open window".

 

A basic philosophy that some ILB coaches/DCs adopt is that if you see the window open, work to close it. But that depends on where the play is hitting. If it's an inside hitter, again, they'd look to close the nearest hole first. If the play is, say, outside zone, they'd step to close the inside gap and then hit the outer most window. They want to keep on the running back's hip.

 

So in the above photo...

 

If the play goes to the defensive right, and the DL closes backside gaps...

 

93 closes backside C-gap. the Nose closes backside A. The playside DE closes playside B.

 

50 crosses, identifies and then scrapes down the LOS to eliminate cut back. 54 plays the D-gap.

 

That leaves the backside B, playside A and playside C open.

 

The backside ILB (51) would check if it's full or split flow. If split that means the HB/FB is coming to his side, and there is a cutback opportunity coming his way. So he has to check backside B. If full flow, there is still a cutback threat, but not immediate, and the hope is that 50 will track is down and the high safety (32) will be in position to force it back inside.

 

The playside ILB (55) would check playside A on inside read (iso, inside zone, ect) and playside C if that gets clogged or he reads outside flow. the safety on the playside (28) would fill the alley, which could be the C-gap on the playside or outside.

 

But there's so many different ways of doing it.

[darrelgreenie]

I was talking specifically in light of the S-OLB not having contain as per Haslett's comments.

[KDawg]

I was talking specifically in light of the S-OLB not having contain as per Haslett's comments.

 

Yeah, I got that. I just went long-winded and forgot to get to the point by the end of my rambling.

 

I don't think both OLBs will be given the green light every time. That means you have to have two safeties that are playing low in the box, which is possible from the 2-4, but really gives up deep ground in the 3-4. The other option is as you said, have the ILBs scrape over to help the safety, but that's scary having the ILB be the first man to the POA on a stretch and it leaves the interior of the D susceptible to play action on stretch as well (and it could leave the top of the D in trouble as well, depending on how much "bite" our safeties have.

 

Ideally, in most situations, you almost would have to play it where one OLB has contain and the other doesn't.

 

But, I get nervous about that overly risky stuff. Some guys have no issue with saying, "sure, let's let the ILBs scrape over and help the safeties. We're going to be so aggressive up front that the QB won't have time to get rid of the ball!" In some games, I love that philosophy. In others, I get scared.

[darrelgreenie]

...I don't think both OLBs will be given the green light every time. That means you have to have two safeties that are playing low in the box, which is possible from the 2-4, but really gives up deep ground in the 3-4. The other option is as you said, have the ILBs scrape over to help the safety, but that's scary having the ILB be the first man to the POA on a stretch and it leaves the interior of the D susceptible to play action on stretch as well (and it could leave the top of the D in trouble as well, depending on how much "bite" our safeties have.

 

Ideally, in most situations, you almost would have to play it where one OLB has contain and the other doesn't.

But, I get nervous about that overly risky stuff. Some guys have no issue with saying, "sure, let's let the ILBs scrape over and help the safeties. We're going to be so aggressive up front that the QB won't have time to get rid of the ball!" In some games, I love that philosophy. In others, I get scared.

I don't think Haslett meant both OLB will be given the green light every time either.

Using the base Okie front as an example one OLB is playing the boot/cutback and the other playing contain.

I'm guessing Haslett would allow the S-OLB to attack and scheme up a means to account for the contain with the least amount of changes. The most expedient way I could think of was assigning contain to the SS and mixing and either giving the SOLB a gap or allowing him to either aggressively 2-gap or just attack off the edge.

 

Having the ILB scrape was my second thought but then you have to work some stuff out on the inside, maybe even assigning the SS to fill as needed in the A/B which makes it hairy on play-action and frankly I am not sure I want that responsibility in the hands/brains of our safeties. A dangerous way to play would be to have the DL and SOLB 2-gap and the Mike to scrape and just tell the SS to keep an eye on the A/B gap for fill but not aggressively. Here is how some other 34 do it :

 

Not sure what Troy's role is in this defense, maybe freelance?

 

Credit: NFL Game Rewind

 

Allowing the SOLB freedom to attack isn't as easy as it sounds in the base Okie or downs that are 50/50 run/pass. Its gonna be interesting to watch unfold.

[darrelgreenie]

Just a look at Dallas 34 in action w/ Hatcher from this article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2012094-how-jason-hatcher-can-help-save-the-washington-redskins-defense#articles/2012094-how-jason-hatcher-can-help-save-the-washington-redskins-defense

 

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

See class. The last 5 or 6 posts from the 'geeks' was why your homework notes are SO important. 6

Our boys sure as heck know their stuff. And they're a lot better with diagrams on pictures than your simple minded teacher. 

 

Hail. 

 

*I should do another of these, This has been fun and I've learned a few little subtle things through it. Suggestions welcome. 

[RandyHolt]

I like the way the Cowboys RDE runs sideways into Hatchs guy freeing him to crush RG3.

 

I saw Dallas do that other times. Why blitz straight into a blocker, instead occasionally go take out an OL that is otherwise engaged. Concede one guy not getting to the QB to free someone else, who of course will get all the credit.

 

I hope Haslet took note and tries to stunt / utilize Rak this way a few times a game. I would be happy with simple stunts, let alone the pick plays Dallas runs. 

[darrelgreenie]

^^ That RDE is actually Ware/OLB falling for the ball to fake to Morris, but the result is more or less the same.

The OLB crashes hard inside and the DE loops around, commonly called a stunt (or the play where Smith holds the LT so Aldon can get a free rush)

[RandyHolt]

I dont doubt that DG but I have seen similar Dallas plays where an LB takes out the RT who is very wide engaged in pass pro, no ball fake, no pump fake, no back. 

 

If buying a fake leads to QBs getting pancaked, why not just take out the guard like that on purpose. Especially on a day the pass rush is not getting it done. Just try it once a game, versus like we did last year, never. 

[KDawg]

I dont doubt that DG but I have seen similar Dallas plays where an LB takes out the RT who is very wide engaged in pass pro, no ball fake, no pump fake, no back. 

 

If buying a fake leads to QBs getting pancaked, why not just take out the guard like that on purpose. Especially on a day the pass rush is not getting it done. Just try it once a game, versus like we did last year, never. 

 

This is normal on stunts. It's something most teams are coached to do.

 

A common misconception is that the stunt is supposed to free up multiple guys. However, while that would be nice, the actual goal is for one guy to take on more than one blocker and occupy them, thus allowing the other to be free.

 

It's more complicated, but its the same basic premise in a 3/4 man stunt/blitz package.

[RandyHolt]

This is normal on stunts. It's something most teams are coached to do.

 

A common misconception is that the stunt is supposed to free up multiple guys. However, while that would be nice, the actual goal is for one guy to take on more than one blocker and occupy them, thus allowing the other to be free.

 

It's more complicated, but its the same basic premise in a 3/4 man stunt/blitz package.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I think what I have noticed is the ferociousness of some of those what I call picks. In my mind, a stunt usually has the late/free guy on an angle towards the QB.  The one I remember may have been a stunt, but it was an ILB delayed, and the free guy coming late took an angle away from the QB, and jacked the RT good, which freed the OLB he was engaged with. I had never seen a stunt on a RT while swung so far out. The RT was double teamed, and got smoked pretty good. Not a common stunt that I see. I haven't seen guys that engaged when the stunt comes.

 

Many teams may do it, but I have never seen any of our stunts designed that way. Nor have ours in their very limited and more traditional use, ever come close to those results.

[darrelgreenie]

^^ That RDE is actually Ware/OLB falling for the ball to fake to Morris, but the result is more or less the same.

The OLB crashes hard inside and the DE loops around, commonly called a stunt (or the play where Smith holds the LT so Aldon can get a free rush)

 

 

Randy-

 

Haslett saying the OLBs won't have to play as much contain opens the door for stunting with the DEs

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

What's the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What's the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What's the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What's the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[darrelgreenie]

.....Having the ILB scrape was my second thought but then you have to work some stuff out on the inside, maybe even assigning the SS to fill as needed in the A/B which makes it hairy on play-action and frankly I am not sure I want that responsibility in the hands/brains of our safeties....

I thought I wuold revisit this now that Clark has been signed and with him coordinating the back-end and understanding our (Steeler's) 'brand' of the 34 make me feel better about more attacking/creative schemes up front.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

What's the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[darrelgreenie]

"We had a sit down with our new [outside] linebackers coach, Brian Baker,” Orakpo said. “He sat down with me and Ryan and emphasized what he needs us to do this year—and that’s to create havoc.”

“Don’t worry about just being robots out there, don’t worry about containment and all that other stuff in certain situations that we were coached to do,”

http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/redskins-lb-brian-orakpo-encouraged-scheme-tweaks