visionary Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Interesting developments with China and Taiwan as well. Not sure if that will affect how China acts over Ukraine and the Crimea. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/world/asia/taiwan-defends-use-of-force-against-protesters.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 France has suspended most of its military cooperation with Russia, the French defense minister said Friday, as Paris was still mulling whether to nix the sale of two Mistral warships to Moscow Freaking French. They don't want to eat the billion dollar cost for the ships which were just built. We've been arguing over that deal since the French signed it with Russia. Russian diplomatic source cited by RIA: Lavrov to meet Ukraine counterpart Deshchytsya on sidelines of nuclear summit in The Hague 12:42 PM Meeting between Russia's Lavrov, Ukrainian counterpart Deshchytsya happening now-PhilipIttner http://trib.al/QxvjjvT pic.twitter.com/CdNwsm8kaV 1:19 PM That's a pretty big deal. We've been asking for that for weeks. IT also kind of undermines the whole tact Russia took that the gov in Ukraine was illegitimate if Russia is now meeting with them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 http://rt.com/news/lavrov-g8-crimea-kerry-933/ Russia not clinging to G8 if West does not want it – Russian FM Russia is not clinging to the G8 format, as all major world problems can be discussed at other international venues such as G20, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said. “The G8 is an informal club, no one gives out membership cards and no one can expel members,” Lavrov told a media conference at the Hague. “If our Western partners believe that this format has exhausted itself, let it be. We are not clinging to it.” He went on to say that many believe that the G8 has already fulfilled its mission as many issues are now discussed at the G20 forum. “Generally speaking, there are also other formats for considering many questions, including the UN Security Council, the Middle East Quartet and the P5+1 on the Iranian nuclear problem,” Lavrov told journalists. The Minister also commented on earlier reports regarding Australia considering not inviting President Vladimir Putin to the November G20 meeting, which is going to be held in Brisbane. “The G20 was not established by Australia, which voiced the proposal not to invite Russia to the meeting. We created the format all together,” Lavrov said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 JMS, Russia's actions aren't irrational from their perspective. They're responding to what they view as existential threats coming as a result of a drastic change in the balance of power in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Russian's actions aren't irrational if you take into account Russia's irrational logic. The idea that closer economic ties between Ukraine and the EU are a threat to Russia is irrational. In the real world a prosperous Ukraine would mean a bigger trading partner for Russia. Russia the country which will always be Ukraine's largest trade partner. Russia fearing western Europe is pretty absurd. The threat when France, Germany or UK would invade are gone. Germany doesn't even have an army for pete sake. France isn't in NATO, and the UK can only muster about 40,000 troops removed from her boarders.. I mean come on the West has invested what a trillion dollars in Russia over the last two decades. They still owe us about 800 billion. Why the heck do we want to invade Russia. You have to understand that Putin's regime sees geopolitics and global economics as a zero sum game (and I agree that it ultimately is), and they view the US and EU has rivals with competing interests. And we probably are. We are not. Not militarily. There are no competing interests among the world powers anymore.. all of our economies are linked, you hurt anybody you hurt everybody. We aren't in the 1930's here. Now Consider what's happened around them, since just 2001. In the ME and North Africa: - 2001, the United States invades Afghanistan and eventually establishes a friendly democratic regime. - 2003, the United States invades Iraq and eventually establishes a friendly democratic regime. Somebody forgot to gell Afghanistan and Iraq that. they are neither democratic nor are they friendly to the US. - 2011, the United States supports the fall of the Pro-Russian regime in Libya, who then establishes a friendly democratic regime. Somebody should tell the citizens of Benghezi.. really though to early to tell how this is going to work out. - 2013, the United States begins a diplomatic thaw with Iran, embracing the chance to develop friendly relations with a liberalizing regime--threatening to erode Russia's influence here as well over time. Our diplomatic pressure was only effective because Russia supported it. Russia has no influence or ties with Iran. Russia fears islamic radicals more than we do because they represent a larger threat to Russia than they do here. The balance of power has completely changed in a very, very short amount of time. Really just 13 years or so. The soviet union collapsed 25 years ago. Russia's ability to project or even appear to project military power has only recently returned... last 4 years or so. This is more about Russia's irrational xenophobia and her very real feelings of not being a world power any longer.. With those two wrong headed lenses yes you can see the west as the aggressor or the boogie man. The reality is though the west is more looking for good investments than they are in conquests. And Russia has benefited greatly from our proclivity for seeking out investments. Places that have been in Russia's orbit for centuries have broken away. Russia's own stability has been under serious threat for a long time. Their population growth rate only just started to exceed their death rate in 2009. You demonstrate it yourself, the U.S. and E.U. could partner with China to form sanctions that could destroy Russia's economy and send them into a horrible depression that would probably collapse their government. So they're taking the few steps they believe they can to insulate themselves with more strategic power. The biggest obstacle is figuring out a way of reconciling our profound geopolitical differences to bring Russia back into the fold. As you say, that country has never really westernized and they've almost always been a very authoritarian state. I agree that we don't really want them to be an insular pariah state, the North Korea of the fully developed world. That won't make them less dangerous. It's also contrary to the world America wants to build--a universally democratic, stable, prosperous, and cooperative world, with free markets everywhere. What geopolitical differences? They are xenophobic and see the west encroaching on their traditional allies as a threat... Only in the real world the west his already hip deep in Russian investments and have been for decades now. They see the EU Ukrainian relationship as a threat. In the real world it's a bridge between Russia and the EU one which would pull Russia closer into it's thus far very positive relationship. A relationship which greatly favors Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 WOW! http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-35-russias-sizeable-and-ready-forces-on-the-border/#1838 1838 GMT: In yet another story that has the FSB’s fingerprints all over it, a tape has been released reportedly of a conversation between former Ukraine Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and MP Nestor Shufrych. The Russian propaganda outlet RT.com posted the video — it claims that Tymoshenko has confirmed the conversation, but says that parts were edited. According to RT, Shufrych’s office denied the report: The leaked phone call took placed on March 18, hours after the Crimea & Sevastopol accession treaty was signed in the Kremlin. While Shufrych was “just shocked,” Tymoshenko was enraged by the results of the Crimean referendum. “This is really beyond all boundaries. It’s about time we grab our guns and kill go kill those damn Russians together with their leader,” Tymoshenko said.... Read the rest of it.... http://news.yahoo.com/start-g7-ukraine-crisis-talks-hosted-obama-afp-180016650.html;_ylt=AwrBJR7NfTBTpzIAd1PQtDMD West to hit back at Russia over Ukraine US President Barack Obama gathered his allies in The Hague on Monday to hammer out a response to Russia's lightning annexation of Crimea, as Ukraine pulled its last troops from the peninsula. Obama and other leaders from the G7 group of top economies went into talks to decide further punishment for Russia's actions in Crimea as Moscow reportedly began talks with the Ukrainian delegation in the highest-level meeting between the two countries since the crisis erupted. Ahead of the talks, Obama stressed that Europe and the United States were "united in our support of the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian people" and "united in imposing a cost on Russia for its actions so far" However, Ukraine's Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya stressed that Kiev sought to resolve the crisis through diplomacy. "The position of the Ukrainian government is to use all peaceful means, all diplomatic and economic means to resolve this conflict peacefully," Deshchytsya told reporters. "However, we don't know what are the Russian plans. What the plans of President (Vladimir) Putin (are). That's why we ask for meetings with the Russians. We want to find out what they are thinking about Ukraine. We want to live peacefully with Russia ... we want to coexist ... we want to sit down together and drink vodka together maybe," he added. Ukraine needs to be careful here. People there are already pissed off at the lack of response to Russia and the way soldiers have been treated. https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR Poland MFA Sikorski: "Lavrov, left the hall when Deshchitsa performed his speech" 2:49 PM https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak Reuters: G7 leaders agree to hold their own summit in Brussels in June instead of attending G8 in Russia 3:13 PM They should hold meetings in NATO headquarters from now on. https://twitter.com/TomBartonJourno My cameraman punched and kicked and we pushed and hounded by pro-Russian thugs from the scene of a Russian storming on Ukrainian base. 2:41 PM Rag tag convoys of whatever vehicles Ukraine's soldiers can find carrying them towards continental Ukraine from Crimea. 2:43 PM Ukrainian marine tells how the Russians humiliated them, storming their base as negotiations were continuing and denying them their flag. 2:45 PM Russian forces now in de facto control on Crimea, a territory with power cuts, queues to withdraw money, and a multitude of armed groups. 2:47 PM Pro-Russian so called 'self-defence' groups in Crimea increasingly out of control, vandalising Ukrainian bases and beating up journalists. 2:53 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 http://live.america.aljazeera.com/Event/Ukraine_Crisis/110581130 Leaders of the G7 said in a statement on Monday they were ready to intensify sanctions on Russia in case of further destabilization of Ukraine.After a meeting in The Hague, the group said that in response to Russia's violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity it had imposed a variety of sanctions against Russia and those individuals and entities responsible."We remain ready to intensify actions including coordinated sectoral sanctions that will have an increasingly significant impact on the Russian economy, if Russia continues to escalate this situation," the G7 said.It also said it plans to hold a G7 summit in Brussels https://twitter.com/JonathanLanday G7/EU Statement: reaffirms support for Ukraine sovereignty, independence, condemns illegal referendum, illegal Russia Crimea annexation. 4:14 PM https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld Russian intervention into eastern or southern Ukraine would be clearest trigger for additional sanctions: U.S. official 4:11 PM Does that mean nothing else unless that happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I actually think Crimea is more helping Putin with his domestic problems right now than hurting him. Although I disagree with you a lot, this is one thing that you are 100 percent accurate about. Wondering how much we can really isolate them, though, when they've got what's probably the world's longest border, with China on the other side of it. (And, frankly, I don't see China really looking for a trade war with Russia. In fact, I could well see China and Russia mutually deciding that, economically, both of their biggest economic enemies is the US, and that ganging up makes both of them more resistant to the US.) (I could see such an alliance being a lot like the one between Hitler and Stalin: One where everybody knows that both of them are planning to break the alliance. But I could also see both of them deciding that "let's wait till we're both bigger than the US, then maybe we'll fight each other to see who's number two." In short, it's an alliance that's guaranteed to turn into conflict, but maybe not till 50 years down the road.) The problem with this theory is that China's economy rests on selling one hundred zillion Happy meal toys, lower end electronics items and cheap T shirts to the USA every year. Russia can't fill that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 curious to see what China does here. I imagine they'll stay quiet and happily trade with the West and Russia as much as possible. There isn't much for them to gain in taking a public stance, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The problem with this theory is that China's economy rests on selling one hundred zillion Happy meal toys, lower end electronics items and cheap T shirts to the USA every year. Russia can't fill that role. The problem with that problem is that it assumes that if China trades with Russia, then the US will stop buying Chinese happy meal toys. ---------- curious to see what China does here. I imagine they'll stay quiet and happily trade with the West and Russia as much as possible. There isn't much for them to gain in taking a public stance, right? Agreed. They're in a position to sit back and watch two big economies hurt each other, while they sell to both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Leaders of the G7 said in a statement on Monday they were ready to intensify sanctions on Russia in case of further destabilization of Ukraine. Does that mean nothing else unless that happens? Yes I think that means if Russia doesn't do much else, theEU is willing to look the other way. The EU is unwilling to risk friendly relations with Russia over Ukraine. The EU feels Russia hasn't crossed the Rubicon. Morons. I feel this translates into Russia as the West will allow them a free hand with any unaligned country, and perhaps even new NATO members. As far as Russia is concerned, You either have the stones to stand up to them, or you don't. And now they know the EU doesn't; and the US doesn't either. Although I disagree with you a lot, this is one thing that you are 100 percent accurate about. Even a blind squirrel get's a nut now and then.. It's really odd to hear you say this because I mostly agree with your posts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 curious to see what China does here. I imagine they'll stay quiet and happily trade with the West and Russia as much as possible. There isn't much for them to gain in taking a public stance, right? China is more concerned with the sanction stick eventually getting applied to their buttocks than they are concerned with what Russia is doing on the other side of the world from China. If tomorrow China decides to invade Taiwan, or vietnam again, or screw with South Korea or Japan over it's territorial waters, china could be looking at the same set of sanctions. At least that is their fear; so they aren't all that interested in helping foster international unity against a security council member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The problem with that problem is that it assumes that if China trades with Russia, then the US will stop buying Chinese happy meal toys. Ummm... this was in response to your suggestion that Russia and China were going to "gang up" on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Agreed. They're in a position to sit back and watch two big economies hurt each other, while they sell to both sides. Only the two big economies here belong to the EU and the US. Russia's GDP is smaller than Brazil's. Besides our sanctions don't target Russia directly so far they only target a handful of businesses and a couple of oligarchs. It's a nothing burger. Business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Does that mean nothing else unless that happens? I doubt it. The way you do sanctions is you impose some, see what response you get, then perhaps impose some more, see what response you get, and so on. There is nothing in that statement to suggest that no other sanction are possible unless Russia invades eastern Ukraine (nor is there anything in that statement to indicate that we WILL impose other sanctions). Its wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The lack of any response or more likely the outright rebuff of sanctions will force the west to do more. This has only just begun and if we're lucky it will play out in economic and diplomatic circles, there is absolutely no advantage to anyone (other than maybe China) in any military action. We are watching something play out with a historical provenance that stretches further back than the fall of the USSR, or even the USSR at all. The Ukranians have fought for their identity for centuries, caught between the Poles, the Russians and the Tatars. Putin trying to reestablish Russian hegemony over adjacent states speaks to deep seated paranoia and issues of self-worth in the Russian people. He is absolutely playing to the home crowd, and so far is being well received for "standing up to the fascists" which they always use to defame any opponents. Some good points have been made here, Russia is far more dependent on international ties now than at any point in their history so sanctions with teeth will bite, but at the same time Russia has prided itself for millennia on suffering to deny any victory to a foe. They are not going to just roll on this. At the same time the Russian people have had the doors thrown wide open, they see what the west is actually like, how everyday people live and the things we take for granted that they have never had. You can't put that genii back in the bottle. The last thing I expect to see is any kind of really deep cooperation with China, they are historical enemies, and we're talking about countries that take history seriously. Neither one will do anything to strengthen the other, even if it means hurting us. We are upstarts, newcomers, the nouveau riche who don't have or appreciate the centuries of accrued value in being Russian, or Chinese (really Han) for that matter. The only saving grace here is that America has no historical or racial memory, we don't give a rat's ass about what happened in 1754, hell we don't even remember what went down in 2004, we make it up fresh every day. Makes the rest of the world crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 http://euromaidanpr.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/leader-of-peoples-militia-of-donbass-detained-in-donetsk/ Leader of “People’s Militia of Donbass” detained In Donetsk Monday, March, 24, 2014, 17:20 The leader of “People’s Militia of Donbass,” Mykhaylo Chumachenko has been arrested. The Security Service of Ukraine (SSU) announced the arrest in a notice, along with the information that Chumachenko was detained by a Donetsk court’s order. “He is charged a formal suspect of preparation for committing a crime under Articles 109 (act aimed at the violent overthrow or change the constitutional order or the seizure of state power) and 110 (assault on the territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine) of the Criminal Code of Ukraine,” the statement reads. https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR Military experts reports about 700 russian APCs & tanks along the eastern border of Ukraine from Russia side - D.Tymchuk 7:49 PM Military experts reports about 240 attack helicopters&fighter planes along the eastern border of Ukraine from Russia side - D.Tymchuk 8:55 PM Right Sector member shot in the heart & 5 people kidnapped.They were attacked in the cafe http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/25/7020184/ pic.twitter.com/NFeEGQwhlO 9:29 PM Some members of "The Right Sector" accused Minister of Interior Affairs of Ukraine A. Avakov in the murder of Sasha Muzychko(Bilyi) 9:57 PM Sasha Bilyi was found handcuffed and shot once in the leg and twice in the heart. tsn.ua pic.twitter.com/Z4W3sR3l6E 9:58 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I doubt it. The way you do sanctions is you impose some, see what response you get, then perhaps impose some more, see what response you get, and so on. There is nothing in that statement to suggest that no other sanction are possible unless Russia invades eastern Ukraine (nor is there anything in that statement to indicate that we WILL impose other sanctions). Its wide open. Our sanctions were incredible weak. Putin characterized them as a joke. the EU is signalling if Russia stands down no further sanctions will take effect. The US will not unilaterally impose tougher sanctions on Russia because doing so would only isolate ourselves, not Russia. This is business as usual time. Hello Neville Chamberlain thy name is Angela Merkel. And we just bought a ticket to round two of the Putin big pants show. Who's up next? Poland, one or more Baltic states... All have large Russian speaking populations to be protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The lack of any response or more likely the outright rebuff of sanctions will force the west to do more. This has only just begun and if we're lucky it will play out in economic and diplomatic circles, there is absolutely no advantage to anyone (other than maybe China) in any military action. I think the rest of your post was pretty insightful. I took issue with the first paragraph only.. I don't think anybody is talking military action. I think Obama has even told Putin military action is off the table. I don't think Obama should have said that, but I agree with it. We don't need to resort to military action to get tough with Russia. Real biting sanctions designed to make Russia pay a price would suffice. But those aren't on the table and don't seem like they will be anytime soon. I also don't think a lack of response to our existing sanctions makes it "more likely the west will do more". I think the sanctions were designed to be ignored, the followup sanctions after the annexation of Crimea were even more of a joke. There is no backbone in the West to get tough with Russia over Ukraine. Europe wants business as usual and for Russia to finish with this business. Only the way to get Russia to finish isn't to ignore bad behavior. That's a formula for more bad behavior. Merkel is afraid of Putin and that means we are all screwed. Putin will move into eastern Ukraine, and the west will do nothing as he absorbs all of Ukraine. And that will destabilize the entire region as every former Warsaw pact nation will feel the familiar icy claw of the bear at their territory. NATO membership will mean nothing. Putin is going to push this thing until the West can't possible ignore him further.. Which looks to me like he's going to push it pretty damned far. When the other side folds and you receive a big pot, you raise your bet.. you don't thank your lucky stars and push back from the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Our Sanctions so far... (1) We didn't attend the Russian hosted G8 economic summit. We instead held a G7 summit in Europe and invited the Russian Foreign minister to attend... Ok that is pathetic. (2) We imposed travel restrictions on 33 Russian and Ukrainian officials. They can't travel to Europe or the US... Unless of course they use their Russian government passports then they can go anywhere.. We also confiscated there assets.. Although it seems the asset seizures might not hold up in the EU courts.. and we don't really know how much money was frozen.. We din't target Putin... Ok 33 guys might be feeling a little heat.. Is that going to impact the Russian economy.. No. Does it impact Putin, probable not; his fifty billion is safe. (3) We canceled these targeted 33 guys VISA and Mastercards... Oh Boy now it's on. In total the sanctions so far are a pathetic response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well we did sanction one of their banks and some of their oligarchs (which supposedly prohibits any US or US linked banks, companies, individuals from doing business with them)...which was a good start. I think Lavrov (Russia FM) was already scheduled to be there for the nuclear summit...China seems to have been involved as well. But I do think we need to keep at it with sanctions and pressure. I hope the G8 ouster that was telegraphed weeks ago wasn't supposed to be some new major punishment. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10720332/Stripped-of-their-dignity-and-their-weapons-marines-take-the-road-home.html Stripped of their dignity and their weapons, marines take the road home Just after sunset on Monday, an old bus, two heavy military lorries and a dozen cars, some flying Ukrainian flags, rolled on to the causeway across the salt marshes at Gonchar, on the north-eastern tip of the Crimean peninsula. On board were 47 men, two women and a child from the Ukrainian marine base in Feodosia – the first of many convoys of Ukrainian servicemen and their families now making their way out of what is now Russian Crimea. Behind them they have left wives, children, a city and region many of them have come to think of as home, and their commanding officer – seized by Russian forces in a dawn raid on Monday and still missing. Russian recruiting officers have been working hard outside besieged bases to convince Ukrainian troops to change sides, promising them equal rank and improved salaries. While many refused, for others with families to support and local roots, the offer was persuasive. Still others say they will quit military service altogether to stay in the peninsula they have come to think of as home. As a result, officers say only about a third of the 600-strong Feodosia based battalion opted to return to the Ukrainian mainland – depriving the country’s military of some of its most effective fighting men at a time when the confrontation with Russia shows no sign of abating. For Marine Ruslan Basovsky, who was born in Russia but raised in the Vinitisia region of western Ukraine, the decision was not easy. His parents and extended family still live in Ukraine, but after seven years serving with the marines in Feodosia, he has put down roots. His wife, Katya, is a local, and all of her extended family remain in Crimea. While some families joined Monday’s convoy, Mrs Basovskaya, with two young children, had little choice but to stay put, at least until it becomes clear where her husband may be posted next. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/sports/basketball/nba-denies-clearing-prokhorov-to-make-nets-russian.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesworld&_r=0 N.B.A. Denies Clearing Nets to Become ‘Russian’ The Nets owner Mikhail D. Prokhorov spoke Monday in Moscow about transferring the team to a Russian-based company and his desire to turn the Nets into the legal equivalent of a Russian team. Whether he receives approval for the move remains to be seen. But first, he will have to deal with the league’s denying his claim, first made last year, that it had given him approval to shift the Nets’ ownership. “The Nets are owned by Mikhail Prokhorov through an American-based company,” Michael Bass, an N.B.A. spokesman, said in a statement. “We have received no application nor is there a process underway through our office to transfer the ownership of the Nets to another company.” Any transfer of ownership must be vetted within the league and approved by at least 23 of 30 N.B.A. owners. Prokhorov’s application to buy control of the Nets took eight months for approval. An application to transfer the Nets to Russian ownership would be treated as seriously as the sale of a team. Prokhorov, a multibillionaire, needs the transfer to comply with a law passed last year that bars Russian government officials from holding foreign bank accounts or owning stocks and bonds issued overseas. While the law does not prohibit overseas real estate ownership, a Kremlin spokesman said last April that officials “would be better advised to be patriotic and have both feet in their own country.” Prokhorov is politically ambitious and is looking to the future with his desire to transfer the Nets to ownership in Russia. He ran unsuccessfully for president of Russia against Vladimir V. Putin in 2012, and toyed with running for mayor of Moscow last year but did not. He is not on the list of Russians who are the subjects of sanctions by the United States government for Putin’s annexation of Crimea. He said Monday that he did not think the sanctions would affect his business. https://twitter.com/BSpringnote Fitch lowers outlook ratings of nine Russian companies from stable to negative Compaanies include Gazprom and Lukoil 2:15 AM https://twitter.com/CoalsonR Crossing the line into pure Stalinism, Sergey Markov posts list of "traitors of Russia." on.fb.me/1hjpNJ5 1:40 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ultranationalist-leader-in-maidan-protests-is-shot-dead-in-ukraine-video/496788.html Ultranationalist Leader in Maidan Protests Is Shot Dead in Ukraine (Video) A leader of the Ukrainian ultranationalist group Right Sector and active participant in the Maidan street protests in Kiev has been shot dead in western Ukraine. Oleksandr Muzychko, whom Russia had wanted on charges of committing war atrocities in Chechnya, was gunned down shortly before midnight Monday in the Ukrainian city of Rivne, the local Vse news website reported. Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Doniy said on his Facebook page that unknown assailants blocked off Muzychko's car, dragged him out of the vehicle, cuffed his hands behind his back, and shot him twice in the chest. Vse and another Rivne website, ChaRivne, said that townspeople believed that Muzychko had been gunned down by a "Russian subversive group." Crime scene photos published by Ukrainian news agencies showed a body in a torn-up jacket and shirt lying on the ground. "Those who killed him made sure that he was not wearing a bulletproof vest and then shot him in the heart," Right Sector activist Yaroslav Hranitskiy said, ChaRivne reported. Not sure about this, as I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere yet. https://twitter.com/BSpringnote Interior Ministry says deputy head of Right Sector Myzichko was killed by Ukrainian militia while trying to arrest him 3:53 AM Ukraine press reports that Defense Minister Tenyh will be fired shortly for incompetence and may be replaced by civilian Bohdan Butsa 4:06 AM Wow US really stepping up. US to donate 25k MRE's to Ukrainian army. Another insult from Obama 4:08 AM https://twitter.com/Kateryna_Kruk UKRAINE MINISTER OF DEFENCE TENYUKH RESIGNED.... 4:37 AM but verkhovna rada didn't support this decision, only 197 voted for. 4:38 AM https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR Tenyukh at Rada: negotiations with Rus side on withdrawal of Ukr troops from Crimea are on. Ukr mil/ property estimation-11bln. 4:51 AM http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/03/putin-announces-historic-g-1-summit.html?utm_source=tny&utm_campaign=generalsocial&utm_medium=facebook&mbid=social_facebook&mobify=0 Putin Announces Historic G-1 Summit Russian President Vladimir Putin made history today by scheduling the first-ever summit of the newly formed group of nations called the G-1. The summit, which Putin has set for June in Sochi, is expected to be attended by the G-1 member nation Russia. Putin pronounced himself delighted by Russia’s attendance, telling reporters, “It is an auspicious start for the G-1 to have the participation of all its member nations.” In addition to what he called “a free exchange of ideas on issues of importance to the G-1,” the summit is expected to elect the first president of the G-1, a position for which Putin is widely considered the frontrunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think the rest of your post was pretty insightful. I took issue with the first paragraph only.. I don't think anybody is talking military action. I think Obama has even told Putin military action is off the table. I don't think Obama should have said that, but I agree with it. We don't need to resort to military action to get tough with Russia. Real biting sanctions designed to make Russia pay a price would suffice. But those aren't on the table and don't seem like they will be anytime soon. I don't expect or even believe that the US will initiate any military action, but when the Russians send armour into eastern Ukraine to "protect" more of their supposed kin, there will be shots fired. Russians play chess, there is more to this than just Crimea, and reabsorbing the Ukraine by force would be ugly and only done as part of a larger plan. I have already heard rumblings about Moldova, which is on the far side of Ukraine, and who else might be intimidated if the Red Army is on the road? The Baltic states and Poland especially and gonna have the ****s, the fits and the blind staggers at the thought of a new Warsaw Pact entity and we are no tied to them, where does that lead? Many seem to voice opinions about Putin seizing Crimea as though he's merely a bully doing it because he thinks he can, that is extremely shortsighted, Russian plans are always very deep and far-ranging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So what kind of reaction would we be looking at if say a sniper picked off Putin? It's clear the nutjob was just waiting for the Olympics to end to pull this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I don't expect or even believe that the US will initiate any military action, but when the Russians send armour into eastern Ukraine to "protect" more of their supposed kin, there will be shots fired. Russians play chess, there is more to this than just Crimea, and reabsorbing the Ukraine by force would be ugly and only done as part of a larger plan. I have already heard rumblings about Moldova, which is on the far side of Ukraine, and who else might be intimidated if the Red Army is on the road? The Baltic states and Poland especially and gonna have the ****s, the fits and the blind staggers at the thought of a new Warsaw Pact entity and we are no tied to them, where does that lead? Many seem to voice opinions about Putin seizing Crimea as though he's merely a bully doing it because he thinks he can, that is extremely shortsighted, Russian plans are always very deep and far-ranging. I agree with you. I think Crimea was a sort of litmus test to see how the west would react. Our reaction was so muted, reserved and timid that we've empowered Putin to raise the ante. I agree with you that Putin will be invading eastern Ukraine and he won't stop there. Why wouldn't he? Putin's popularity at home is riding a five year high even as his economy is continuing to tank. He won't stop until we make him stop. And we just signaled that we will tolerate a lot more of his behavior before we will make Russia pay any significant price. I was listening to an interview today about how the individual sanctions we imposed. They said the sanctions didn't really confiscate many assets. That we socialized the sanctions list for nearly a weak before they went into effect and that was enough time for the oligarchs to withdraw their money from the US and Europe. Pathetic. On a brighter note it does seem like the hardest hitting consequences for Russia right now are coming from the market. The Ruble is down to historic weakness against the dollar and the Russian stock market is off 13% so far this yearand continues to drop. Meanwhile foreign investment dollars are fleeing Russia's boarders. The problems I see with these being our primary reaction is of coarse the markets can come back as quickly as they went away if the US and EU signal all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 So what kind of reaction would we be looking at if say a sniper picked off Putin? It's clear the nutjob was just waiting for the Olympics to end to pull this crap. Putin's popularity level in Russia has reached 71.6 percent. That's a 9.7 percent increase since Ukraine began. Putin's wildly popular in Russia... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/03/13/we-treat-him-like-hes-mad-but-vladimir-putins-popularity-has-just-hit-a-3-year-high/ Obama's popularity level in contrast is like 45%. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll The Russian people love what Putin is doing in Ukraine. He's restoring national pride, and sticking his finger in the West's eye. So if we took him out we wouldn't want it to come back to us. We should get a former Russian or Soviet soldier to do it. One with a history of mental problems or strange behavior and one who has some skills with a sniper rifle. Then we have somebody with terminal cancer shoot the Russian Soldier before the police can question him. Then of coarse the cancer patient dies and we just practice our innocent look in the mirror... That's what they did to us. I think it would still work. Better Yet... Next time he poses for a picture with a Tiger... We change the dosage on the drugs they give the Tiger. So when Putin poses with the Tiger, the tiger wakes up and eats him. Or we train the dolphins to drowned him next time. Or we could get him with a polar bear.. They are always unpredictable. Best idea... we destroy this whole super man macho thing he has going on and train his puppy to go for the throat and take care of business.. Those Russian Geese are pretty mean... That might work If the Shark gets him who could blame us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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