My Thoughts From Mile High

[kleese]

As mentioned in the other thread, the rally Saturday was great. Amazing turnout, perfect venue with a rooftop bar overlooking Coors Field. Gorgeous night.

The weather today was even better. I woke up pretty jazzed and went for a little run near our hotel... Sun coming with the Rocky Mountains as a backdrop... Really amazing.

Denver is a great city. My kind of place. Was here briefly for a concert in August as well and thoroughly enjoyed the city both times, albeit quick trips both times. It is very pretty, plenty to do, very little traffic, and the vibe is good.

We hung out at a bar adjacent to the stadium pregame and watched the early games... No one all day gave me any grief aside from the normal friendly banter stuff. In that regard it is a lot like Dallas... Fans were friendly and accommodating. Stadium is nice... Kind of tight in the concourses which is odd for a new stadium, but sight lines were good and seats were more spacious than most. It was actually pretty hot to start the game with the sun blazing and not a cloud in the sky. Not as prominent as Dallas, but there were Redskins fans dotted throughout.

The game?

RG had all day to throw through three quarters. OL was rock solid. Our passing failures were a combo of WRs not getting open and RG having a terrible game.

He stunk. No other way to slice it. In the 4th quarter everything started to break down and he was under a ton of pressure, but prior to that we had plenty of chances.

Tied at 21 on the first play Morgan was wide open crossing the middle for about a 25 yard gain and RG had a totally clean pocket... He missed badly... Maybe Morgan could have caught it anyway, but it was a terrible throw. He had several other misses throughout. The unreal catch by Garçon in the first quarter would have been a first down had RG made a good throw.

He was not good. It wasn't just a product of stuff happening around him. HE wasn't good. Having said that, there is no doubt we need another WR to get open...

Defense was fine... Certainly played well enough to win if the offense helps out. We obviously still have needs there, but today they weren't the issue. Our CBs were great and Hall is having a stellar season.

That game flipped faster and more violently than any game I have ever seen. I wasn't confident at 21-7 because I knew Peyton was eventually going to get going, but I certainly thought it would at least go down to the wire. Defense needed the offense to move the ball and at least put up a FG on one of those drives after it was 21-14.

Extremely disappointed in RG and the offense today. I was at Dallas as well and he laid an egg both times, with a great performance in between. I won't put all the blame on him of course as there were clearly other issues offensively, but he had multiple opportunities early and missed on most of them.

Not surprised we lost, but I am surprised on how the game went.

Not really sure what to think. I'm not a knee jerk guy. Confused as to why RG is having such accuracy issues even when he isn't under any pressure. On a couple of those deep balls, the WRs weren't open per se, but RG overthrew them so badly that they didn't have a chance. And again, the WRs did him no favors today--- that is for sure.

Moving forward? Eh, don't really know. I said all along if we got to 3-5, I think we'd be OK. I guess I'll stick with that as I do think we have a very legit chance to go at least 2-1 over the next three.

But the fact that the offense took such a monster step back today troubles me.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Morgan HAS to make that catch big Ed. Yes, it wasn't a perfect throw. But it was MORE than catchable. 

 

Not every throw is going to be perfect. Morgans not a fresh faced rook. That was a BAD drop. 

 

Hail. 

[hail2skins]

Moving forward? Eh, don't really know. I said all along if we got to 3-5, I think we'd be OK. I guess I'll stick with that as I do think we have a very legit chance to go at least 2-1 over the next three.

But the fact that the offense took such a monster step back today troubles me.

"think we'll be ok"......for what? 

 

Yes, we'd all like to hang our hat on that nice 7-0 run to end 2012.

 

But right now, we have to go 7-2 to end with a winning record, 6-3 just to end at .500.  Maybe Dallas only gets to .500 as well, but that still doesn't make me happy.

 

I just can't see anything other than a losing record with the inconsistency RG3 is displaying.

[Boss_Hogg]

It almost looked like Josh didn't get his head around at the right time. The ball was certainly behind him but he should have made that catch.

[kleese]

Morgan HAS to make that catch big Ed. Yes, it wasn't a perfect throw. But it was MORE than catchable.

Not every throw is going to be perfect. Morgans not a fresh faced rook. That was a BAD drop.

Hail.

Lousy throw, I didn't think Morgan had a great shot at it... But yes, he could have caught it. The one two plays later was 100% on Robinson--- that was a good throw by RG.

"think we'll be ok"......for what?

Yes, we'd all like to hang our hat on that nice 7-0 run to end 2012.

But right now, we have to go 7-2 to end with a winning record, 6-3 just to end at .500. Maybe Dallas only gets to .500 as well, but that still doesn't make me happy.

I just can't see anything other than a losing record with the inconsistency RG3 is displaying.

If over the last 8 games we are a good team, I can write off the first half of the season even if it only results in a 8-8 record.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Lousy throw, I didn't think Morgan had a great shot at it... But yes, he could have caught it. The one two plays later was 100% on Robinson--- that was a good throw by RG.

 

Morgan. Robinson. And Moss on what should of been a TD before the Hank TD. 

 

Robert had his worst game as a pro and deserves a lot of critique. But he wasn't helped out in by ANY stretch by his so called 'playmakers'; pitiful excuse for a line and pocket they never even form for him; and most of all by the complete fraud of an OC we have who is moveable through nepotism. 

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Robert needs 15 seconds from the offensive line to throw the ball.

 

The offensive line was fine.

 

And yes, every teams Quarterback gets blitzed and hit from time to time, but when Robert had time to do a round off and stick the landing just about everytime he drops back, he can make a throw.

 

We'll know more when the all 22 comes out but he looked like poo poo today.

It almost looked like Josh didn't get his head around at the right time. The ball was certainly behind him but he should have made that catch.

 

He didn't.  The ball wasn't perfect, but I'm with GHH, that catch has to be made.

[The Trashman]

Give RG3 a freakin break. he had a rookie season that was unreal.

 

Maybe this is his "sophomore slump" season. Happened to Cam Newton last year now I don't hear his executioners calling for his head anymore.

 

In my book he gets a pass for this year, bad knee and all and I expect him to do well in the coming years. I can wait.

[kleese]

Over the first three quarters, the pocket RG had was almost perfect. Very, very little pressure. He was taking hits because he wasn't throwing the football OR taking off and running.

Give RG3 a freakin break. he had a rookie season that was unreal.

Maybe this is his "sophomore slump" season. Happened to Cam Newton last year now I don't hear his executioners calling for his head anymore.

In my book he gets a pass for this year, bad knee and all and I expect him to do well in the coming years. I can wait.

I didn't say we should get rid of him... Just pointing out that he had a poor game and we all knew going in that we didn't stand a chance if he didn't play well.

[darrelgreenie]

Give RG3 a freakin break. he had a rookie season that was unreal.

 

Maybe this is his "sophomore slump" season. Happened to Cam Newton last year now I don't hear his executioners calling for his head anymore.

 

In my book he gets a pass for this year, bad knee and all and I expect him to do well in the coming years. I can wait.

Cam didn't have a 'sophomore' slump.

....But the fact that the offense took such a monster step back today troubles me.

At what point do you start looking at playcalling?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Over the first three quarters, the pocket RG had was almost perfect. Very, very little pressure. He was taking hits because he wasn't throwing the football OR taking off and running.

 

I'd take issue with that. Yes, he was his own worst enemy. But the protection was anything but perfect. 

 

I'm gona' say this is a case of getting a completely different perspective live or via the TV. Been there, countless times, where I've thought a game was completely different to what everyone else saw from watching it live to others watching it on TV. 

 

Hail. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Cam didn't have a 'sophomore' slump.

At what point do you start looking at playcalling?

beat me to it.

It's irrelevant to the topic but it annoys me when people say it

[kleese]

Cam didn't have a 'sophomore' slump.

At what point do you start looking at playcalling?

I think it's fair to criticize Kyle today... I don't think we had a great plan. But it's hard for me to critique a plan too much when the QB looks so disheveled even on very simple plays.

[darrelgreenie]

RE: RGIII throwing behind Morgan

 

Regardless of the outcome I question throwing deep downfield. low percentage plays, when your QB clearly isn't comfortable.

Meanwhile Peyton is throwing easy slants, rub routes, swing passes and screens.

 

But, I thought it was a bad read and bad throw. Form the TV replay it looked like Garcon was open. But the threw the ball behind Morgan, Morgan didn't get his head around early enough for Griffin to throw it earlier and Griff may have been trying to steer/slow Morgan down from running into the SAF. Not a great route, not a great throw, bad read.

[RandyHolt]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Kleese

 

I found it very odd to hear Denver fans booing our injuries. I guess they thought we were tired, but they would boo when the player finally got up off the ground.  

 

Why would we use DBs to fake injuries in an already depleted secondary, while facing a top passing team. 

 

About the OL holding up I agree with GHH, I felt they did poorly in pass pro, almost the entire game. RG3 and Cousins took far too many huge hits. 

[darrelgreenie]

I think it's fair to criticize Kyle today... I don't think we had a great plan. But it's hard for me to critique a plan too much when the QB looks so disheveled even on very simple plays.

You always let Kyle off the hook no matter what.

A simple play is a hand off or a read option play or a bubble/RB/TE screen or a swing pass or a slant.

Short throw + long run are simple plays. The passing game against the Broncos was not simple to execute for the QB.

[Bacon]

I'm utterly fascinated the differing interpretations of the offensive line's performance that I'm seeing across the forum. I'm seeing everything from "they were trash" to "they were just fine" and on to "how much time does Robert need anyway??" There's more subjectivity involved here than I ever thought possible, and it seems as if it's all tied in to how you currently view Robert. If you think Robert needs to get the ball out sooner, you must also think that our line was perfectly acceptable today.

 

Personally, I thought they were terrible; the interior line in particular, which is nothing new. Robert will not survive this season staying in the pocket. That says a lot. Further, just think of the inordinate amount of negative rushing plays we've been having. They tell me one thing: our RBs are awesome and conceal the fact that our undersized line gets no push whatsoever. In the event that the RBs don't make something out of nothing instantly, they fall backwards 1-5 yards.

 

The line is terrible.

[The Trashman]

Cam didn't have a 'sophomore' slump.

 

I disagree. Statistically on paper, Cam did have an "on-par" 2nd year compared to his rookie season. But, but, if you looked deeper you would see there were some 2nd year regressions. He was making poor decisions across the board, holding the ball when he should get rid of it (just like RG3), rolling out of the pocket before it's necessary, throwing it away when he still has time to make a play happen and fighting for meaningless yards (ala RG3) when a fumble might cost his team a score. Also Cam over-relied on Steve Smith, just like what RG3 is facing now with Jordan Reed. Cam simply didn't blossom well enough in his 2nd season as he has recently in this season.

 

This may be an issue of trust or lack of trust, not only with the ability of his supporting cast but also with the inept playcalling from Kyle Shanahan.

 

Whatever it is, hopefully they can fix it before this season becomes a total disaster.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm utterly fascinated the differing interpretations of the offensive line's performance that I'm seeing across the forum. I'm seeing everything from "they were trash" to "they were just fine" and on to "how much time does Robert need anyway??" There's more subjectivity involved here than I ever thought possible, and it seems as if it's all tied in to how you currently view Robert. If you think Robert needs to get the ball out sooner, you must also think that our line was perfectly acceptable today.

 

Personally, I thought they were terrible; the interior line in particular, which is nothing new. Robert will not survive this season staying in the pocket. That says a lot. Further, just think of the inordinate amount of negative rushing plays we've been having. They tell me one thing: our RBs are awesome and conceal the fact that our undersized line gets no push whatsoever. In the event that the RBs don't make something out of nothing instantly, they fall backwards 1-5 yards.

 

The line is terrible.

 

Makes a complete mockery of those (fans, 10's family, mediots et all) that say he can't continue to be a RO QB that runs or he'll get killed. 

 

News flash, When there's no pocket, he's getting killed worse with a bonehead OC that is insistent he stands back there like a sitting duck to 'learn.'

 

Hail. 

[darrelgreenie]

I disagree. Statistically on paper, Cam did have an "on-par" 2nd year compared to his rookie season. But, but, if you looked deeper you would see there were some 2nd year regressions. He was making poor decisions across the board, holding the ball when he should get rid of it (just like RG3), rolling out of the pocket before it's necessary, throwing it away when he still has time to make a play happen and fighting for meaningless yards (ala RG3) when a fumble might cost his team a score. Also Cam over-relied on Steve Smith, just like what RG3 is facing now with Jordan Reed. Cam simply didn't blossom well enough in his 2nd season as he has recently in this season.

You can disagree and give your opinions/rationale but Cam did not have a sophmore slump based on the standard metrics.

[RiverboatGambler]

I'm utterly fascinated the differing interpretations of the offensive line's performance that I'm seeing across the forum. I'm seeing everything from "they were trash" to "they were just fine" and on to "how much time does Robert need anyway??" There's more subjectivity involved here than I ever thought possible, and it seems as if it's all tied in to how you currently view Robert. If you think Robert needs to get the ball out sooner, you must also think that our line was perfectly acceptable today.

 

Personally, I thought they were terrible; the interior line in particular, which is nothing new. Robert will not survive this season staying in the pocket. That says a lot. Further, just think of the inordinate amount of negative rushing plays we've been having. They tell me one thing: our RBs are awesome and conceal the fact that our undersized line gets no push whatsoever. In the event that the RBs don't make something out of nothing instantly, they fall backwards 1-5 yards.

 

The line is terrible.

Twitter thought the line sucked. I thought it sucked. Most of the skins nation thought it sucked. People who want to see cousins start and arent willing to extend a break to our QB even after last year, the injury (and his stellar work and progress thoughout this year) thought it was just fine. Bet they wont feel that way when Kirk gets decapitated playing behind it. It almost happened on the uncalled head shot today late in the fourth. 

 

I think that the chain of pain goes like this.

 

QB gets A gap pressure a few too many times and gets skittish.

Skittish QB has accuracy issues

Pocket protection gets better but QB still skittish

Accuracy issues continue

Finally recievers and QB in sync

A gap pressures get home again

Skittishness ensues again

Recievers lose confidence and stop making plays

QB gets mad at recievers

O co-ordinator gets mad at QB

QB gets mad at O co-ordinator

Defense stops making plays from frustration and tiredness

 

Loss

Fans go nuts

 

 

Rinse/repeat at next bad loss.

[jadams5214]

An alarming stat for RG III that isn't getting enough attention ---

 

In 23 career games RG III now has an incredible 22 fumbles!!!

 

Ball security and pocket awareness are two vital components quarterback play.  Yet RG III continues to struggle mightily with both.

 

Averaging basically a fumble per game is just awful and cannot continue if RG III is going to develop into a top level NFL QB

[RiverboatGambler]

An alarming stat for RG III that isn't getting enough attention ---

 

In 23 career games RG III now has an incredible 22 fumbles!!!

 

Ball security and pocket awareness are two vital components quarterback play.  Yet RG III continues to struggle mightily with both.

 

Averaging basically a fumble per game is just awful and cannot continue if RG III is going to develop into a top level NFL QB

How many of those are lost fumbles? How does that number compare to other QBs in his draft class.

 

In before you say, "it doesn't matter."

[sportjunkie07]

It almost looked like Josh didn't get his head around at the right time. The ball was certainly behind him but he should have made that catch.

That's what I noticed as well. He should have had his head around earlier and that is a perfect throw and catch.

Rg missed Morgan on the ? fake handoff wheel route? and possibly garcon as well wide open in the end zone.

Lots of missed opportunities.

[Bacon]

How many of those are lost fumbles? How does that number compare to other QBs in his draft class.

 

In before you say, "it doesn't matter."

Offhand, I think he's lost 6 or 7.

 

Not good, but most of the fumbles have actually been muffed handoffs or other mistakes in the backfield so lost fumbles aren't all that common.