RemoveSnyder Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Johnnie Farms 2008 High-School video: ... 2013 Memphis Senior Class vid: http://youtu.be/cLzVWptp7cY?t=5m33s ... 2010-2013: Memphis 2009: Hargarve Military Academy 2008: H.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I'll have to try and work up a decent response here on specifics with Moncrief and why I like him. Safe to say that there are many WRs in this draft that I like better than he. But, after a couple of guys fall away, get selected, like M. Evans, Benjamin ... you are really only left with a few TRUE vertical outside receivers. One guy who I've talked about transitioning more toward the vertical game was Robinson, but he's an early 2nd round guy and certainly isn't (or hasn't) been developed as an exclusive vertical outside receiver. J. Matthews is another guy who is basically neck and neck with Robinson in many respects. He too is another early 2nd rounder. So availability comes into play. I don't want to get into it real deep, but I could tangent out onto the Bill Polian area where he says that 40% of the information on a prospect is proprietary info/metrics that the clubs hold themselves and no one on the outside ever gets to see. Things like really in-depth physicals and psychological exams and background checks, past injuries and surgeries, classroom stuff, etc. So ... there's some stuff there to separate Robinson and Matthews even though they are very similar. Now, back to what I was saying, one of the vertical outside guys is M. Bryant. So, in that mock you quoted, I basically said: "In round 3, I'm looking specifically for Jimmie Ward and Telvin Smith," thus I took Bryant out of the equation without ever mentioning him. I actually like Bryant. Also in that mock you quoted, Moncrief was a secondary option. I explained that it only came to pass if I couldn't land Beckham, first of all, in the 2nd and actually got a hybrid Slot guy like Landry. In the 4th, if I couldn't get Sanuders as a Slot, I actually would consider Dri Archer, I failed to list him - I need to go back and update that. But anyway, my explanation said I was looking for an outside guy then an inside guy or vice versa - an inside guy then an outside guy. Moncrief, after maybe a couple of guys really becomes the only vertical guy left. So that is part of it, but not the whole part. I'll work on a post about Moncrief himself. Gotcha. Yeah, I liked the explanation, it was more that I was curious as to why you thought he was a viable outside/vertical guy? So far I haven't really seen that. And I don't think he has the physical ability of someone like Allen Robinson who can be anything he wants. Moncrief does fit the bill with Gruden's past draft history from a size standpoint. But I think getting him is chasing after a need a bit too much. For a different guy who can get vertical in the 4th round, what do you think of Devin Street? Tall receiver with good hands, and can catch it away from his body. He's a bit injury prone, but he's had good games against great teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 why you thought he was a viable outside/vertical guy? You know how they say that highlights don't always tell the whole story on a prospect? - Well, sometimes they lead you in the right direction. To really see Moncrief at his best, imo, you have to go back to 2012. Below I'm posting the LSU game from 2012. Just watch the first three passes that go toward Moncrief. Don't get too caught up into specifics, just look at the macro. The First play of vid, you could say that Moncrief didn't make a great play on the ball, you could say the QB overthrew him a tad, nonetheless, just check out the route. That's a double-move, vertical route and he was wide open thanks to a solid fake. Second pass his way, again, burnt the CB deep along the seam. He was wide open thanks to his release from the line, the QB overthrew it. Another vertical route. Third pass: A rounded off IN route, catches it, stutter-steps two guys and out races Eric Reid for a TD. That's where the speed shows up. It wasn't a body catch either. ... ... I posted a ways back about how Moncrief doesn't use all his speed during his routes. I also pointed out how he rounds off his cuts, isn't sudden from the breaks. But, when he gets the ball into his hands, that's when he shows off his speed, ironically. He can run away from people. He can split two defenders. There's a reason why he's a considered a 4th rounder, but there are reasons why he has upside too. To continue on the LSU game. He showcased a couple more double moves, with great animation and authority to fake out the CB. The great thing about the LSU game is that it shows part of his fallibility. He had some drops, some real lapses and then later on, he atones for them with some really incredible catches. This is what you get with mid-rounders. When yo look at the game in totality, you can't help but like the things he does. ... Here are the highly provocative, influential highlights: ... Lots of vertical display over the entirety of his career. Predominately he's a downfield guy. Despite critique on his hands, he's made some really good catches: over the shoulder, diving, one handed, etc. Those are the reasons why I see him as a vertical guy because he is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binton Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Got a question for a sort of fantasy draft thing I'm doing on another board. What receivers would RG3 work best with? Is he best off throwing to certain areas of the field or are there receivers with certain skill sets that would work best? Any help is appreciated, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Got a question for a sort of fantasy draft thing I'm doing on another board. What receivers would RG3 work best with? Is he best off throwing to certain areas of the field or are there receivers with certain skill sets that would work best? Any help is appreciated, thanks Honestly, his arm is talented enough to throw everywhere. We definitely want to stretch the field vertically to give Jordan Reed and Garcon more room to work. And stretching the field vertically would also let us unleash that cannon RG3 has. Preferably a WR that can work outside (opposite Garcon) and go vertical. Also having a slot WR would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Did I post this already? I literally can't remember. electric boogie woogie ... Sooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Believe it or not, Archer is actually bigger, more weight & taller than Saunders - probably runs faster too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Got a question for a sort of fantasy draft thing I'm doing on another board. What receivers would RG3 work best with? Is he best off throwing to certain areas of the field or are there receivers with certain skill sets that would work best? Any help is appreciated, thanks Griff can throw to all areas of the field, no limitations. To maximize Griff's deep ball ability I want a WR that: o can win quickly at the snap o has long speed to separate going deep down o can track the deep ball looking back over their shoulder o can high point the ball and has a hunger/eagerness for the ball o knows how to use body position to shield DBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 New article from Dukes and Skins on late round WRs: http://fanspeak.com/nfldraft/2014/02/04/later-round-wrs-can-make-early-impact/ Thanks a ton for the link over here. Haven't had a chance to post the material yet, been a busy week so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm good on WR. Seattle or the 49ers would both whoop up on Denver/Pats if either made it. Honestly, the Bengals had the best chance in the AFC to "maybe" hang with with either team in the NFC. Defense wins in the NFL, Offense will just get you by/close. We need early round talent on D. This team won't improve unless our D improves. I want to see a heavy dose of defense in this draft and obviously not completely ignoring O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm good on WR. Seattle or the 49ers would both whoop up on Denver/Pats if either made it. Honestly, the Bengals had the best chance in the AFC to "maybe" hang with with either team in the NFC. Defense wins in the NFL, Offense will just get you by/close. We need early round talent on D. This team won't improve unless our D improves. I want to see a heavy dose of defense in this draft and obviously not completely ignoring O. Quite a few ways to win the super bowl. Interestingly you have both teams put a priority on the exterior. Most people trump winning in the trenches, but the strength of those teams were at receiver and db's. Their lines weren't total scrubs, but the major talent was outside. Of course I think earl thomas is the cog that makes that d tick. They can keep chancellor in the box to load up on the run, and play press coverage and rarely give up a big play thanks to thomas. Would be nice to have a top flight fs again. Byrd? Maybe. He'll cost a lot but he's a substantial upgrade from what we have. If we're going to sign a big name fa it should be him. Would probably rather have him over orakpo if it came to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 So which wrs are "NFL ready"? I was going to ask which wrs could contribute for us next year, but I was afraid the answer would be "any of them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 So which wrs are "NFL ready"? I was going to ask which wrs could contribute for us next year, but I was afraid the answer would be "any of them." The most NFL Ready one is Sammy Watkins IMO. There are a few guys though that can make impacts early on in year one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 The most NFL Ready one is Sammy Watkins IMO. There are a few guys though that can make impacts early on in year one Fair enough. What if I'm looking for a good route runner with good hands and good explosiveness (size, particularly height, and long speed are a plus but unnecessary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Fair enough. What if I'm looking for a good route runner with good hands and good explosiveness (size, particularly height, and long speed are a plus but unnecessary). Again I think the number one for that is Watkins, but I'd also look at Davante Adams, Allen Robinson, Brandin Cooks as others as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Again I think the number one for that is Watkins, but I'd also look at Davante Adams, Allen Robinson, Brandin Cooks as others as wellI assumed Watkins was gone long before our pick so I wasn't sure if you were jerking my chain a bit initially (and I wouldn't blame you given the amount of info in this thread) Thanks for the info, I'll check them out. And thanks for all the hard work man - not a college guy, so this thread is extra appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I assumed Watkins was gone long before our pick so I wasn't sure if you were jerking my chain a bit initially (and I wouldn't blame you given the amount of info in this thread) Thanks for the info, I'll check them out. And thanks for all the hard work man - not a college guy, so this thread is extra appreciated. haha man I'm just a college kid who does this for fun. If y'all enjoy it then I must be doing alright then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I really appreciated Monk's breakdown of WRs, catch rates, etc. I only got to see Jordan Matthews play two games this year, but he just seemed like a man amongst boys out there. There's just something about his game that looks so effortless. Also, how did Kareem Martin DE UNC do at the senior bowl, and what does he project to play in the NFL? Probably a 4-3 DE, but I could be wrong. He turned into a madman this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he went in the 3-4th rd range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Again I think the number one for that is Watkins, but I'd also look at Davante Adams, Allen Robinson, Brandin Cooks as others as well Adams left me really unimpressed. The other two are top notch but adams just seemed lackluster. Seemed sluggish, hands were worse than a lot of receivers in this draft and he didn't particularly have a lot of fight in him in blocking or going after contested passes. He's been incredibly productive in a lesser conference but I think much of that success is from his qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Adams left me really unimpressed. The other two are top notch but adams just seemed lackluster. Seemed sluggish, hands were worse than a lot of receivers in this draft and he didn't particularly have a lot of fight in him in blocking or going after contested passes. He's been incredibly productive in a lesser conference but I think much of that success is from his qb. Well, to be fair, I didn't mention blocking or contested passes in my criteria Though I should have probably included blocking... whoops. I was looking at who could come in and contribute immediately to our lackluster WR corp, and to me route running is the biggest piece of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 http://fanspeak.com/nfldraft/2014/02/05/dt-rashede-hageman-closer-look/ New blog post up on Ra'Shede Hageman out of Minnesota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Also, how did Kareem Martin DE UNC do at the senior bowl, and what does he project to play in the NFL? Probably a 4-3 DE, but I could be wrong. He turned into a madman this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he went in the 3-4th rd range. Maybe I need to watch some more games of Kareem Martin. He seemed like a solid run stopping 3-4 DE prospect. Not there yet, but could be. Didn't really see any pass rushing ability from him despite what seemed like good agility. Maybe that could be developed, but you'd hope to see more signs of it. Thought he'd be available in the 5th-6th range. What games do you remember him turning into a madman? http://fanspeak.com/nfldraft/2014/02/05/dt-rashede-hageman-closer-look/ New blog post up on Ra'Shede Hageman out of Minnesota Keep posting, I'll read your stuff. Quick question though, when is it going to stop saying "By Steve Shoup" in the left column? When are you going to be able to post your own articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Maybe I need to watch some more games of Kareem Martin. He seemed like a solid run stopping 3-4 DE prospect. Not there yet, but could be. Didn't really see any pass rushing ability from him despite what seemed like good agility. Maybe that could be developed, but you'd hope to see more signs of it. Thought he'd be available in the 5th-6th range. What games do you remember him turning into a madman? Keep posting, I'll read your stuff. Quick question though, when is it going to stop saying "By Steve Shoup" in the left column? When are you going to be able to post your own articles? Currently I'm a guest blogger so it goes to Steve and he posts it. Hopefully in the near future i'll have my own login and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Authenic Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm willing to bet gruden takes Jordan Matthew. he's too polish to pass up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I'm willing to bet gruden takes Jordan Matthew. he's too polish to pass up I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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