Redskins Vs Steelers: Post Game-What Did You See?

[DC9]

Shows that Jackson has better hands. More interested in percentage of passes defensed. If Jackson is mediocre at best at defending passes but on those few times he DOES get his hands on the ball he can catch it, is that really better than if he were really good at defending passes but rarely makes INTs?

 

(and for those of you who have jerky knees, that was called a hypothetical lol...)

 

He was in the right spot at the right time a lot last year.

 

 

No, "50's" first chance to play was in 2008. That he didn't play doesn't mean he was never given a chance TO play. Maybe he just wasn't good enough.

 

That he needed an injury to get on the field might speak to how well he was or was not playing/producting/practicing in the past.

 

My point being, the idea that Jackson can get better over the years but Orakpo can/will not, is faulty thinking at best.

 

He was always a spot guy though.  In 2008 it was Andre Carter and Jason Taylor.... ewwww... forgot about that cat.

 

In 2009 we drafted Orakpo and that was that.  He never had a chance to play but quite often played well in spot duty.

 

I believe he sacked Brees in 2009 when we played the undefeated Saints and he sack/fumbled Romo sits to pee in 2011 when spelling Orakpo vs Dallas.

 

 

No, one has been on the team since 2008 and has been given chances since 2008...they other one since 2009.

 

But he was never THE guy and was not given a chance to be THE guy until last year.  Carter and Orakpo were always going to get that benefit.

 

Again, let's not just remove Jackson's past seasons as if they tell us nothing--or worse, as if he would have been ballin' at the same level of production in 2009 as he did in 2012 if only he had been "given the chance".

 

See above and above squared

 

For the record, I remember the same thing being said about Colt Brennan lol...if they would "just give Colt a chance!!" instead of being married to Jason Campbell lol...

 

Ugh... how unfair is that comparrison.  That was a depressing time in everyone's life and we've both mentioned it in these posts now.

 

 

 

It would also play a role in run support/containment...it would also play a part in the role the coaches assign the OLB on that side from one play/series/game to another.

 

if the player is getting beat by the LT/RT that's one thing.  But how they play that run or play within the scheme is another.  You can look at a play and say, "wow, dude got rocked by Jason Peters but at least he was setting the edge" or "at least he didn't get sucked in" or "at least he didn't jump the gap and over pursue... leaving a tackle blocking an ILB or worse, a Safety".

 

 

I get that, I just think Jackson's perceived "better" performance last year is being affected by fan's feelings about Orakpo. Kinda like how some are saying Pat White's performance is being affected by their feelilngs about Grossman.

 

Could be.  In my opinion I've always liked Jackson because of how he looked in spot duty for Carter and Orakpo.  I was happy for him when he got a shot and delivered.

 

To be totally honest with you, I thought this scheme was going to be tailor made to put Chris Wilson on the map.  I was wrong there and not afraid to admit it.

 

I don't know how many of the others on here feel about Orakpo, but speaking for myself, I see a lot that he can improve on and I root for him and this team from the depths of my soul... but like in any other sport or with any other player you've got to see improvement before you get all that excited.  If he comes out and throws up another 9 sack season, that's good for this team, because that probably means that others got sacks as well because of him.  But I'd have to look at how the overall defense performs with him before that judgement can be made.  I like what I saw out Jackson though and on the initial read, Jenkins and Tapp are going to be solid contributors.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Jackson! Well hot darn it I was told it was Jenkins! ..... Jeanine! Get in here! Your FIRED!

 

 

 

 

 

I told you to stop using that discount temp service...

[DC9]

Gomes hasn't shown himself worthy of a roster spot since being drafted. He has the occasional good game but overall we could drop him and not miss a beat.

 

 

Ah, back to the good ole' days where cali and I agree on just about everything

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

On Orakpo, from every training camp report I've read, Brian is absolutely killing it.  He's an unstoppable monster.  We saw that in Tennessee.  I wonder if the problem is that he's Dexter Manley.  Manley would sometimes ignore the run to get a chance at the QB.  Difference is that Dex had a linebacker outside of him and Orakpo is the linebacker/quasi end.

 

Frankly, he looked great in Tennessee in that first quarter minus the one play where he went too wide.

 

But this thread does make me wonder if Kerrigan is our Mann (talented, more disciplined) while Orakpo is our Manley.  If that's the case, we're in a good position, but we have to scheme to cover it a little.  I don't get the sense that Orakpo is an undisciplined freelancer like Arrington though.

I can agree with this.  But, I firmly believe that Orakpo is a better all-around player compared to Arrington.  I think the reason why Arrington freelanced as a DE was most likely due to not playing the position full-time and never having a mentor in his ear.  Other than Marty here for one season, who did Arrington have to listen to? Marvin Lewis didn't have the galls to talk down the (proposed franchise player) and by the time Gregg Williams got here, Sean Taylor became the new inspiration.

 

Ok, you have the chance to build a defense from scratch. When it comes to the LBs, you have one spot to fill, and your only choices are Orakpo and Tapp.

 

Who here is picking Tapp?

This would be a toss-up and a hard one to distinguish considering that Tapp is playing well in the pre-season and Rak was on the shelf last season.  This is really a hard position that Rak finds himself... one, we now have depth at the linebacking position and there are no true DEs in our system which may make Rak expendable after the season.  While Rak may be a good player, he just isn't worth the kind of money for a system that requires more than hand in the dirt instincts... Rak may prove us all wrong this season and become that natural hybrid that we need for the next couple of years.

 

Nope.

 

I'd rather have Orakpo, Kerrigan, Jackson, and Jenkins/Tapp (one or the other if only allowed to keep one), and then go about adding to the team through free agency and the draft.

 

I'm not a big fan of giving up upper level talent, unless that talent is being a malcontent or a cancer in the lockerroom. I prefer keeping talent and adding to it over getting rid of talent and trying to replace it.

Agreed... it's all up to the FO and the market price at which Rak sets himself at.  Make no mistake about it, he will not get the kind of money that Kruger suckered out of Cleveland.

[DC9]

So anyway .....

 

That Niles Paul dude. Not very good. 

 

Hail. 

 

I'm anxious to see what we do with 4TEs this year.  As we saw, Reed doesn't look ready for prime time just yet... so we'll see Niles for the year, minimum.

 

I do have a new found attention for him after Cooley's story the other week where Niles and Markus White got into in training camp last year and he said no one wanted to fight Niles after that, lol.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 ..... I told you to stop using that discount temp service...

 

I should of known when her only related resume quals was dating some guy who she said was once big in football contracts called Vinny. 

 

We're learning from our mistakes as we go. 

 

Hail. 

[TSO]

I wonder if Cowboy fans with Ware (1 INT his entire career), Bronco fans with Von Miller (1 INT thus far), 49ers fans with Aldon Smith (1 INT thus far as well) want their pass rush specialists to be "more well-rounded" and focus heavily on that?

 

Now, before you say those guys all have more sacks than Orakpo I'd say stop being so blinded by stats that you can't see:

 

1) Just how much Orakpo pressures the QB only for the QB to have a wide open space up the middle to walk right up into the majority of his career here. The aforementioned players have had better Dlines in general since they've played in the league as well as guys who can pass rush opposite of them. It's no surprise that Orakpo's highest sack totals came during his rookie season in which Carter was opposite of him and Haynesworth was actually trying at times. 

 

2) Has played on teams with putrid offense's unlike the aforementioned guys the majority of his career here and, for the first time since he's been a Redskin, was on a team that actually had a good offense but got hurt.

 

 

I really didn't want to jump into this but, in my mind, the arguments against Rak can get quite ridiculous. I thank God none of the coaches look at him the same way some on here do. They fully understand just what they have with him, and that's a game changer that opposing defense's absolutely have to focus on.

 

I'm not going to say much more because, as I've already stated, I think Rak is going to make a lot of people look incredibly silly this year so long as he stays healthy, God willing. 

 

Of course, those fans should be very happy if they look silly and have absolutely no ego on the matter once it most likely happens. I hope to see that from them and will be paying attention to it.      

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... I do have a new found attention for him after Cooley's story the other week where Niles and Markus White got into in training camp last year and he said no one wanted to fight Niles after that, lol.

 

So we're adding bad ass to athletic and speedster. 

 

Now if he could actually learn to utilise any of that to become a football player we might have something .....

 

Hail. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Lotsa stuff lol...

 

I do get what you're saying, DC, and I'm not saying you're way off or anything (at least not in this post lol )...

 

To me, Jackson didn't "get a chance" because the guys ahead of him were better, and he wasn't nearly ready to supplant them. Right now, I still don't think he's ready to supplant the guy(s) ahead of him...but I think the dropoff when he comes on the field is far less than it would have been at any point over the 5 years he's been in the league. I'm glad we still have him, definitely.

Ah, back to the good ole' days where cali and I agree on just about everything

 

LOL...can't believe anyone would disagree with us on this, though...

[RG3Hunna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-e_XagseZk

 

Redskins Love on ESPNFirstTake, wasn't sure where to post this, if someone wants to make a thread for this go right ahead. But yea enjoy ladies and gentleman. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So we're adding bad ass to athletic and speedster. 

 

Now if he could actually learn to utilise any of that to become a football player we might have something .....

 

Hail. 

 

Strangely enough, while a lot of people here have given up on Niles after tossing around the "Shannon Sharpe!" rhetoric a year ago, I'm trending the opposite way...something keeps telling me that, if he makes the team, he'll surprise this seaason. Nothing drastic, but he'll be way more consistent and will turn into a mismatch--oh, and will actually keep the ball from dropping to the turf.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-e_XagseZk

 

Redskins Love on ESPNFirstTake, wasn't sure where to post this, if someone wants to make a thread for this go right ahead. But yea enjoy ladies and gentleman. 

 

Jeebus...I haven't heard any media analysts talk about the Redskins like that in well over 20 years lol...

[DC9]

Strangely enough, while a lot of people here have given up on Niles after tossing around the "Shannon Sharpe!" rhetoric a year ago, I'm trending the opposite way...something keeps telling me that, if he makes the team, he'll surprise this seaason. Nothing drastic, but he'll be way more consistent and will turn into a mismatch--oh, and will actually keep the ball from dropping to the turf.

 

There's going to be a lot to play with in terms of the tightend element this year.

 

I actually think Niles is going to surprise this year, too.

 

We'll know early on.  That's not an easy transition.  He's gained another 10lbs (he's up over 240lbs now) and still moves well.  If his comfort level has improved and he's learned to finish his plays he has every opportunity to take that next step.

 

Long term we have to root for him.  There's no garuntee 83 is back here next year and the three guys we'll have on the roster are for sure (as of now) are Niles, Logan, and Jordan Reed.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Dez came into the league 2 years ago and is already garnering irk from CBs... when will Hankerson do that?

 

Agreed. I think we would know by now if Hankerson was going to become "elite" in the NFL. He might become a solid to good WR, but I can't see him being a true #1 ever. Usually, you have a very good idea by this point in a player's career. The "flashes" we've seen of Hankerson are usually of him being wide open and making catches. That's great and he can definitely provide value to our team, but we still haven't seen him ever just go up and win a jump ball or be dominant in the passing game.  

[TSO]

If anything else, Niles is a great Special Teams player and a decent option as your 3rd TE because he can block. I honestly think if he stays at the same level he's currently at he's still a good enough player to justify a roster spot for. 

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think we know enough about Hankerson to know what he can become.

Our offense spreads the ball around a lot.

Imo Hankerson didn't/doesn't receive enough targets to know his ceiling.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

That clip has me thinking about this team. Something that really stood out to me is how much we manhandled a traditionally tough team. Our starters dominated their starters. Our backups dominated their backups. Our scrubs dominated their scrubs. We also did it without some key players in many cases (they may have too, I don't really know).

 

What does that tell me? That we are developing into a complete team. We are deep. We are going to cut guys that end up contributing to other rosters. That's essentially the last domino that needs to fall for a team to make a championship run. You're going to lose starters during the season. All teams have great players - the differentiator in the NFL is how teams backfill when they lose starters.

 

Last year, we were good enough to win the division despite having to backfill for Orakpo, Carriker, T. Jackson, Meriweather, and Davis.

We've probably gotten even a little deeper this year. You factor that in with the continuity and consistency of being in the 4th year under the same staff and we are poised for a run.

[SWFLSkins]

I agree with that our pass rush is good. However; I don't think its accurate to say that our:

Because we did stunt on the DL, we did use odd formations, we did bring pressure/show-then back off pressure with our SAFs.

Always felt we were deep at OLB. Its ILB depth that I was/am worried about. As it stands know my favorite ILB depth players are Kehl and Compton.

I rewatched the game DG and while I saw more movement than I thought, there definitely was not a lot of exotic blitzes and movement. Most the pressures, sacks were off the front five. The only oddity was Kerrigan lining up inside. I did not see a lot of overloading to one side (unless you consider Kerrigan and Jenkins that) or any safety corner blitzes that I recall. 

[TSO]

Agreed. I think we would know by now if Hankerson was going to become "elite" in the NFL. He might become a solid to good WR, but I can't see him being a true #1 ever. Usually, you have a very good idea by this point in a player's career. The "flashes" we've seen of Hankerson are usually of him being wide open and making catches. That's great and he can definitely provide value to our team, but we still haven't seen him ever just go up and win a jump ball or be dominant in the passing game.  

 

I totally disagree. First, Dez was a first round pick who didn't go through half of what Hank has in terms of injuries affecting his development. Second, if Hank develops even a little of that aggression that Dez plays with, I think he can easily be a true #1 since he's already one of, if not THE, best route runner on the team (and that's according to the coaches and players not me).

 

It's why I get on him at times when I see him thinking too much about the hit he's about to take. He's SOOO close to being an absolute beast. I want our QBs to be able to throw the ball up to him even when he's covered and expect him to come down with it more often than not. He has that kind of ability and it's just a matter of him accepting it in his mind as fact.       

[DC9]

I don't think we know enough about Hankerson to know what he can become.

Our offense spreads the ball around a lot.

Imo Hankerson didn't/doesn't receive enough targets to know his ceiling.

 

If Cousins didn't hit Garcon on that TD pass against the Ravens I would've crucified him for how WIDE open Hank-time was in the back of the endzone... he was basically doing jumping jacks and Kirk didn't even look his way.

[SWFLSkins]

I don't think we know enough about Hankerson to know what he can become.

Our offense spreads the ball around a lot.

Imo Hankerson didn't/doesn't receive enough targets to know his ceiling.

I absolutely agree and had brought this up previously about fans being disappointed with the number of catches, yards, TD's that our WR's are going to have all because of the no. of looks. How good could Hank and AR be if we didn't have say, Morgan. I hear a lot of people talk about Morgan, I have yet to see the return on the dollar as I have with Garcon. I love having Moss, but again at what cost? Is the no. of WR's actually hurting their development? 

[DC9]

That clip has me thinking about this team. Something that really stood out to me is how much we manhandled a traditionally tough team. Our starters dominated their starters. Our backups dominated their backups. Our scrubs dominated their scrubs. We also did it without some key players in many cases (they may have too, I don't really know).

 

And this is why I had no problem with Fletcher lighting into to Pouncey.  Especially when Kedric and Bowen came right over and folded him up afterwards.

 

Call it my hockey mentality, but most Redskins teams would be like, "No, it's preseason, whatever" and played the game with that attitude.  EDIT:  The captain of this team was saying, "Not today, men."  And I loved it right away.

 

And with as much crap as I give Orakpo he had a great quote.  Chris Russell asked him after the Titans game if he was "surprised Haz decided to show the new nickel look in the preseason," Rak said, "Yeah... a little... you know what, **** it... we want to dominate teams, I don't care if they see it or not.  They're still going to have to stop it." or words to that effect.

 

I like that mentality out of my defense.  Especially with an offense that can score points.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Jeebus...I haven't heard any media analysts talk about the Redskins like that in well over 20 years lol...

It was borderline slobbering. Not sure what I think of that.

[darrelgreenie]

I absolutely agree and had brought this up previously about fans being disappointed with the number of catches, yards, TD's that our WR's are going to have all because of the no. of looks. How good could Hank and AR be if we didn't have say, Morgan. I hear a lot of people talk about Morgan, I have yet to see the return on the dollar as I have with Garcon. I love having Moss, but again at what cost? Is the no. of WR's actually hurting their development? 

I don't get caught up in individual receiving numbers. The WR as a unit were very productive.

Without exxageration I think we have one of the best groups of WRs in the NFL.

Are receivers individually don't rack up 'counting' stats but if you look at football outsiders or pro football focus our WRs Hank included rate well.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Dez came into the league 3 years ago.

 

And Dez was drafted in the middle of the 1st round (would have been higher if not for off-the-field problems). And has had Tony Romo sits to pee throwing him the ball.

 

Hankerson was drafted 2 years ago, and in the 3rd round. And went on IR his rookie season. And has had Rex Grossman and John Beck throwing him the ball.

 

That miiiiiiight help to understand why one has seemed to arrive earlier than the other, don't you think?

My mistake Cali... let's make this challenging.  Wasn't Dez drafted during the same year that Austin got his extension therefore making him more of a luxury than a need? 

 

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Hank once thought to be a first round grade talent as well but fell further due to his inconsistent issues.  It also did him a disservice that A.J. Green and Julio Jones were two of the highly can't miss talents to come out as well the year he was drafter as well, right?

 

Let's say Hank never got injured during his first year, would he be further along? Please try to refrain from saying that he had Rex throwing him the ball as well because that was alot better than "What the Heck?" Beck lol.