Redskins Vs Steelers: Post Game-What Did You See?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Still bemoan not taking Oher .....

 

..... I'll leave it. 

 

Hail. 

[Henry]

The Steelers had four different starters on their OL from last year, and Ben holds onto the ball for 30 seconds before actually throwing the ball. Their starting RB got hurt and pulled almost immediately for a guy who would even make our team as a backup. And it was a pre-season game.

I submit we learned next to nothing about our pass rush, DL or OLBs on Monday night. Sorry.

[DC9]

We all know Orakpo is going to be on the team this year and barring injury is gonna make a positve impact on the defense.

But, Orakpo didn't play against the Steelers.....

 

Sorry, DG, that's my bad, brother.

 

Didn't want to start a new thread but this thought has been plaguing me:

How would you guys rate/rank the SAF position following last nights game?

 

Mixed bag.  If I graded them now (the ones) it would be a low C or a high D letter grade.  And that's all about the run game.  They seem to be fine against the pass, but there is more than the pass to defend.  Keep sending Rambo out there, he needs the reps.

 

Nothing against Rambo taking his lumps and learning on the job but I wonder when/if the team will give Pugh or Gumbs action with the first team defense? I believe they've earned it.

 

I think Rambo is going to get first team reps because he's the projected starter, unfortunately to take those lumps that you've mentioned.  He has to get those against the Bills ones because he's going to be playing them.  That said, I'd love to see Gomes be relegated this weekend so we could give Pugh or Gumbs a shot.  I don't think Gumbs has a prayer of making the 53, though.

 

Rambo hasn't been tested in coverage which is good; coverage is his best asset.

But my pop-pysch-coach leads me to believe that his tackling misques are messing with his head right and for whatever reason he's not pulling the trigger or 'shooting his gun' as they say.

It looks like he's thinking about tackling too much instead of just making the play.

 

Right now I think Pugh and Gumbs are the best SAF thus far in preseason.

I have the SAF: Gumbs, Pugh, Doughty, Rambo and since the team seems to have a soft spot for Meriweather I have to include him.

I'm not sure how the teams views Gumbs SS only or FS/SS; against the Steelers I saw him playing both Strong and Free.

 

If I had to pick right now I would have Pugh (FS) and Doughty (SS) with plans to transition to from Doughty to Gumbs.

 

Based on performance I agree with you on Pugh.  He's been a baller and the staff towards the end of last year was high on him as well.  I didn't see Gumbs play until last night and he looked like he wasn't afraid to hit a man with bad intentions, lol.

 

I think the team is projecting Rambo (FS) and Meriweather (SS).

 

The one plus Rambo has so far is he hasn't been beat deep.  But he hasn't been tested deep either.  Is that due to the pass rush or teams unwillingness to call those plays or because he is taking away the over the top throws with good coverage?

 

I'm not sure, maybe a little of all three.  But I'd love to see him tested a few times before he has to worry about DJax running a fly on MNF.

The Steelers had four different starters on their OL from last year, and Ben holds onto the ball for 30 seconds before actually throwing the ball. Their starting RB got hurt and pulled almost immediately for some guy nobodys heard of. And it was a pre-season game.

 

 

Technicially it's 3, there RG switched to LG.  DeCastro (1st round) and Adams (2nd) are both high draft picks and will be very good eventually, they were taking there lumps.

 

I submit we learned next to nothing about our pass rush, DL or OLBs on Monday night. Sorry.

 

Fair point.  Most of what I was saying is based on the overall schemactic picture of the run defense.  Which you don't necessarily need a good or bad line to grade out.  Either you set the edge, you over pursue/jump a gap and get bet, or you get beat by the offensive linemen.  Edges were set by the OLB last night with the exception of the trap blocking plays designed to double and triple the edge.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

We don't know what 98 would've done.  We know what 98 has done and has not done.  We also know what 50 did last year.

 

That's obviously fair to say.  Those facts are in.  We'll see how well Orakpo does this year.  But based on his past performance there is nothing to suggest to me he is going to have 3 impact interceptions OR that he's going to lead the NFL in sacks.  But we'll see.

 

Only one of "50's" INTs was impactful. And "50" came nowhere near leading the league in sacks, so Orakpo wouldn't need to do that to be better than Jackson lol...

 

And just as a refresher:

 

Last season, Jackson had six pass defenses in 14 starts.

Orakpo had three pass defenses in one game.

 

 

We also know what #50 has done in years past. Let's compare those years to Orakpo's past years instead of conveniently leaving them out of the equation.

 

#50 improved last year...it appeared that Orakpo definitely did as well before he got hurt.

 

 

I new who Kerrigan was (not to brag ) but I didn't think he was going for another 5 picks or so.

 

You were one of the few, then lol...quite a lot of complaining and "wtf?" posts when we drafted him

 

 

With Orakpo... did you see how fast we got that card in there?

 

There is probably some truth to what you are saying above.  To me, it's about performance though.  And I think Rak has waaay more potential than his performance is suggesting.  That's why it's frustrating.

 

Completely fair. But I also think fan frustration leads to fans' perceptions being a bit warped.

 

 

Yeah that's fair to say.  But if he's better than Kerrigan do we need to have this conversation?  If he's the elite pass rusher everyone says he is do we have this conversation?

 

I don't think "everyone" (or anyone) is saying Orakpo is an elite pass rusher, though.

 

And like I said before, the idea that Kerrigan is just as talented as Orakpo is surprising is a bit laughable in my eyes. They were both basically drafted in the same spot. NONE of this should be surprising anyone, and actually should be damn exciting for Skins fans. Maybe Kerrigan is better to adjusting to being a 3-4 OLB than Orakpo...maybe Orakpo's strengths take a little longer to develop than Kerrigan's strengths. Maybe Kerrigan's strengths are better neutralized by the LT than the RT...all sorts of things that can show why one player gets noticed more than the other.

[SWFLSkins]

The Steelers had four different starters on their OL from last year, and Ben holds onto the ball for 30 seconds before actually throwing the ball. Their starting RB got hurt and pulled almost immediately for a guy who would even make our team as a backup. And it was a pre-season game.

I submit we learned next to nothing about our pass rush, DL or OLBs on Monday night. Sorry.

I disagree, first off being preseason our Defense was running vanilla with no LOS trickery or stunts, odd safety alignments moving forward and backing off, none of the regular season chess moves. Wait till you see Rak, Kerrigan, Jenkins on the field on third and long, talk about pinning your ears back, the only thing I fear is them hitting the parking lot and not making it back until the next play.  Of course the opposing Qb is going running for his life so it won't matter. Hear me now, thank me later, this front seven is about to blow up. Cofield and Bowen will allow the three DE/LBers to get in the backfield in a hurry. Perry Riley has been quiet so far, that stops when the season starts. 

[RG3Hunna]

I re-watched the game and I was shocked to see how much pressure we brought with only 4 men and orakpo wasn't playing.. Could you imagine how ferocious the defense will be with a healthy orakpo? He demands a double team whenever he is pass rushing. 

 

Another thing, I don't understand the flak Orakpo gets on this board?! The guy is widely respected around the league. ESPN had their top 10 pass rushers list a few months ago and I forget who it was but Orakpo was on someones list. Even I was shocked to see Orakpo on the list lol. They were talking about how people forget about him because he's been hurt, but if he's healthy he automatically improves our D. 

 

But yea the guy is widely respected around the league, I fear we're doing to orakpo what we did to Carlos Rodgers and Ryan Clark we all know how we regretted those moves. 

 

We need to stop comparing him to Ware, Clay Matthes, Von Miller and Aldon Smith those guys are elite,so what? Orakpo might not be top 4 at his position but so what? he is elite to us and that's all that matters.

 

For example Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady are elite our QB isn't elite yet but if we compared him against those guys only of course we would be disappointed it's just not a fair comparison, but when we compare our QB against all the other QB's he's "arguably" better than them all. Stop comparing Orakpo against the elite pass rushers or you'll always be dissapointed he's in the Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger class of pass rushers(Not elite by any means but right below) and that's good I mean at least we didn't get Aaron Maybin that guy was a bum. lol

[DC9]

Only one of "50's" INTs was impactful. And "50" came nowhere near leading the league in sacks, so Orakpo wouldn't need to do that to be better than Jackson lol...

 

The one in the Browns game after halftime wasn't impactful?

 

The one in the 4th quarter of the Giants game (first one in NJ) wasn't impactful?  Sure we didn't win... but that gave us a chance.

 

The one against Dallas is the one I'm assuming you are talking about.

 

And just as a refresher:

 

Last season, Jackson had six pass defenses in 14 starts.

Orakpo had three pass defenses in one game.

 

Last year Jackson had 4 picks in 14 starts.

 

Orakpo has zero in 3 years... (Okay, 2 and a hook)

 

 

We also know what #50 has done in years past. Let's compare those years to Orakpo's past years instead of conveniently leaving them out of the equation.

 

50's first chance to play was last year.  Did he have a chance to start over 98?  And he got better and better as the year went on.  Even in the pass rush.

 

Remember, the first few weeks he got taken off the field on 3rd and long and Haz put in Chris Wilson or Lorenzo... once he started trusting Jax on 3rd to rush, he got better and better.

 

#50 improved last year...it appeared that Orakpo definitely did as well before he got hurt.

 

Like I said, one had 2 years plus, the other 14 games...

 

And like I said before, the idea that Kerrigan is just as talented as Orakpo is surprising is a bit laughable in my eyes. They were both basically drafted in the same spot. NONE of this should be surprising anyone, and actually should be damn exciting for Skins fans. Maybe Kerrigan is better to adjusting to being a 3-4 OLB than Orakpo...maybe Orakpo's strengths take a little longer to develop than Kerrigan's strengths. Maybe Kerrigan's strengths are better neutralized by the LT than the RT...all sorts of things that can show why one player gets noticed more than the other.

 

I don't think a LT or a RT is going to be the difference in your ability to display scheme discipline in the run game though.  Or in your ball skills.  Or your coverage ability.

It would obviously have more to do with the sack totals, but nothing else in my opinion.

 

I don't want it to seem like I am an Orakpo hater.  I'm his fan.  But like anything or anyone where I see room for improvement or wasted potential, I'm going to speak on it. 

 

He can be better and in terms of overall 3-4 OLB play last years performance by Jackson was better than any of the two from Orakpo.

[moondog]

We are obviously a better team with him.

 

What I'm saying is Tapp (based off of Tuesday night, lol) and Jackson (based off of last season) are better all around and can be trusted to do more.

 

 

I'm not saying anyone is lying.  The proof is on tape.

 

More and more folks on here are saying the same thing and so are well respected beat guys like Keim and Campbell.  Orakpo has to show us proof.

 

 

Agree.  He's a better pure pass rusher than anyone on the team, for now.

 

Get past pass rushing for a second because there are other aspects of playing OLB.

 

Who is better in those and who showed that last year in bunches?

 

Does Orakpo make the pick in the Browns game after halftime to swing momentum?

 

Does he force a turnover in the Redzone against Baltimore?

 

Does he pick off Romo sits to pee in the title game?

 

Maybe... he's never picked anyone off before, though.  We KNOW Jackson can because he did.  He was there and it's on tape for yours and my viewing pleasure.

 

Jackson is a better tackler and a better against the run, too.

 

Like I said and will continue to say, I'm rooting for Orakpo, but the proof keeps hitting us in the face.  I've stepped aside from it.  It's not hitting me in the face anymore.

I appreciate your response. So nice to have some posters on here who don't get offended when they are challenged and instead can foster a debate. I did think you said earlier that we are a better defense without him though, which you seem to retract here. 

 

You are right in that Jackson has some pretty soft hands - I've seen Orakpo get his hands on a couple balls in coverage only to drop them and I've also seen him knock down a ton of passes (even in his 1+ game last year) very similar to Kerrigan but he doesn't have the soft hands to bring it in or tap it to himself. Advantage goes to Jackson there. 

 

What I don't get is that you've always asserted here and elsewhere that Jackson is a better tackler/run defender. I guess I simply have never seen anything to warrant why you don't believe Orakpo to be a sure tackler or that he is such a liability in the run game. I see Jackson as being marginally better in coverage with softer hands and that is the only area I see him as superior to Orakpo. I've always seen Orakpo set the edge pretty well against the run. 

 

I guess I just don't see Orakpo as being such a weak defender in all areas outside of pass-rushing as you do. 

 

But even in the area of pass rushing, it is not all about individual stats. Our D-line went from nearly 20 sacks (I think about 18) the year before to less than 5 last year. I think Carriker is a better player than many on here give him credit for, but losing him does not account for 13-15 sacks from the interior line. Barry Cofield has recently said that getting Orakpo back makes himself, Bowen and the entire defense much better. I don't see that as being a purely pass rush kind of thing as I see Orakpo as a better all-around player than you do, although nowhere near the all-around ability of Kerrigan. I saw evidence of that against the Titans. 

 

Every player is prone to a bad play. Jackson has had his fair share of plays where he was owned by running backs even in the backfield - last year against the Bucs when Arrelious Benn literally made Jackson fall on his face with a stutter step being an example. 

 

While I agree that Orakpo has not reached his potential, it's important to point out that he's only in his fifth season and is only 27. He's improved in many areas - people wanted more NFC East sacks, he provided that. People wanted more forced fumbles, he has certainly shown that, forcing three in his third season and forcing one in his lone sack last year. He's not only become better in coverage but especially at getting his hands up. In 1 game and a quarter last year he batted down 3 passes and got his hands on another that he should have picked off. This includes back to back plays against the Saints where he batted passes down in the redzone against Drew Brees. 

 

I think by the end of the year we'll both be ecstatic about Orakpo's season. In the off chance that doesn't happen and we go the cheaper route of Tapp/Jackson/Jenkins I will be disappointed he did not reach his potential here and sad to see him go somewhere else and have success. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The one in the Browns game after halftime wasn't impactful?

 

The one in the 4th quarter of the Giants game (first one in NJ) wasn't impactful?  Sure we didn't win... but that gave us a chance.

 

The one against Dallas is the one I'm assuming you are talking about.

 

Completely forgot about the Browns game, my mistake.

 

But yeah, I count "impactful" INTs as ones that helped win the game...otherwise every defensive play--outside of where the opposing team scores a TD--could classify as "impactful".

 

 

Last year Jackson had 4 picks in 14 starts.

 

Orakpo has zero in 3 years... (Okay, 2 and a hook)

 

Shows that Jackson has better hands. More interested in percentage of passes defensed. If Jackson is mediocre at best at defending passes but on those few times he DOES get his hands on the ball he can catch it, is that really better than if he were really good at defending passes but rarely makes INTs?

 

(and for those of you who have jerky knees, that was called a hypothetical lol...)

 

 

50's first chance to play was last year.  Did he have a chance to start over 98?  And he got better and better as the year went on.  Even in the pass rush.

 

No, "50's" first chance to play was in 2008. That he didn't play doesn't mean he was never given a chance TO play. Maybe he just wasn't good enough.

 

That he needed an injury to get on the field might speak to how well he was or was not playing/producting/practicing in the past.

 

My point being, the idea that Jackson can get better over the years but Orakpo can/will not, is faulty thinking at best.

 

 

Remember, the first few weeks he got taken off the field on 3rd and long and Haz put in Chris Wilson or Lorenzo... once he started trusting Jax on 3rd to rush, he got better and better.

 

 

Like I said, one had 2 years plus, the other 14 games...

 

No, one has been on the team since 2008 and has been given chances since 2008...they other one since 2009.

 

Again, let's not just remove Jackson's past seasons as if they tell us nothing--or worse, as if he would have been ballin' at the same level of production in 2009 as he did in 2012 if only he had been "given the chance".

 

For the record, I remember the same thing being said about Colt Brennan lol...if they would "just give Colt a chance!!" instead of being married to Jason Campbell lol...

 

 

I don't think a LT or a RT is going to be the difference in your ability to display scheme discipline in the run game though.  Or in your ball skills.  Or your coverage ability.

It would obviously have more to do with the sack totals, but nothing else in my opinion.

 

It would also play a role in run support/containment...it would also play a part in the role the coaches assign the OLB on that side from one play/series/game to another.

 

 

 

I don't want it to seem like I am an Orakpo hater.  I'm his fan.  But like anything or anyone where I see room for improvement or wasted potential, I'm going to speak on it. 

 

He can be better and in terms of overall 3-4 OLB play last years performance by Jackson was better than any of the two from Orakpo.

 

I get that, I just think Jackson's perceived "better" performance last year is being affected by fan's feelings about Orakpo. Kinda like how some are saying Pat White's performance is being affected by their feelilngs about Grossman.

[Hitman21ST]

In his game and a bit last year, Rak looked much improved against the run and pass than in previous years. He had something like 2 or 3 passes defended against the Saints, and had improved in run support. Not saying that he's great in those areas, but he is vastly improved.

 

Kerrigan is definitely more well rounded though. They make each other better definitely. A big question is are we better with Orakpo and Kerrigan or Jackson and Kerrigan? I think the answer is Rak, taking nothing away from Jackson.

 

As for safety play, I wouldn't mind seeing Gumbs take Gomes's spot. I get the impression that Gomes knows this is a make or break preseason, so he's going overboard on everything trying to win his spot, and it's backfiring.

[darrelgreenie]

The Steelers had four different starters on their OL from last year, and Ben holds onto the ball for 30 seconds before actually throwing the ball. Their starting RB got hurt and pulled almost immediately for a guy who would even make our team as a backup. And it was a pre-season game.

I submit we learned next to nothing about our pass rush, DL or OLBs on Monday night. Sorry.

I disgaree.

The Steelers are not the only team that swicth pieces along there OL. The unit they put out there was their starting unit vs out starting unit (minus our starting ROLB).

Also the RB you dismiss as not worthy of being a back-up here had 68 yards on 14 carries good for 4.9 ypc and was their leading rusher last year.

 

Here's what I think we learned:

 

We learned about the individual players abilities. We learned that Cofield will destroy the best centers if the OL doesn't give that center help. 

Kerrigan reinforced his ability to make plays at the LOS in pass coverage and to force fumbles.

We're learning through preseason games 1 and 2 that Jenkins can at the very least can be an effective speed rusher.

Ditto Tapp in terms of setting the edge and providing pressure in combination with other rushers.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

As for safety play, I wouldn't mind seeing Gumbs take Gomes's spot. I get the impression that Gomes knows this is a make or break preseason, so he's going overboard on everything trying to win his spot, and it's backfiring.

 

Gomes hasn't shown himself worthy of a roster spot since being drafted. He has the occasional good game but overall we could drop him and not miss a beat.

I disgaree. Here's what I think we learned:

 

We learned about the individual players abilities. We learned that Cofield will destroy the best centers if the OL doesn't give that center help. 

Kerrigan reinforced his ability to make plays at the LOS in pass coverage and to force fumbles.

We're learning through preseason games 1 and 2 that Jenkins can at the very least can be an effective speed rusher.

Ditto Tapp in terms of setting the edge and providing pressure in combination with other rushers.

 

I think we learned that we're better in terms of depth at the LB position that we may have realized.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

 

Kerrigan is definitely more well rounded though. They make each other better definitely. A big question is are we better with Orakpo and Kerrigan or Jackson and Kerrigan? I think the answer is Rak, taking nothing away from Jackson.

 

Well yeah. Given ones a 5 year vet. and the others yet to make his pro debut. 

 

As for safety play, I wouldn't mind seeing Gumbs take Gomes's spot. I get the impression that Gomes knows this is a make or break preseason, so he's going overboard on everything trying to win his spot, and it's backfiring.

 

The impression I always get from Gomes is he isn't very good. 

 

Hail. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Well yeah. Given ones a 5 year vet. and the others yet to make his pro debut. 

 

??...What chu talkin' bout, GHH?

 

 

 

[RG3Hunna]

One good game by Tapp and people saying he's a better fit than orakpo? Orakpo has given us a lot of tape so we're able to see his weaknesses and strength, tapp has yet to do that. He's like a shiny new toy, 3 weeks with that toy and we'll go back to criticizing tapp like every other redskin player not named RGIII. lol 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

One good game by Tapp and people saying he's a better fit than orakpo? Orakpo has given us a lot of tape so we're able to see his weaknesses and strength, tapp has yet to do that. He's like a shiny new toy, 3 weeks with that toy and we'll go back to criticizing tapp like every other redskin player not named RGIII. lol 

 

The front seven played well, Tapp played well, and Orakpo didn't play.

 

That means the front seven is better off without Orakpo, the entire defense is better off without Orakpo, and he's rather easily replaceable with at least 2-3 guys already on the team.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

??...What chu talkin' bout, GHH?

 

 

 

 

At GHH Enterprises Enc. we only class regular and post season games for our clients.

 

And we regretfully announce we're passing on the option to pick up Gomes on the basis that we don't want to go down in football lore, or infamy;  as 'the Agency' that did 'THAT!'

 

Hail.  

[darrelgreenie]

I disagree, first off being preseason our Defense was running vanilla with no LOS trickery or stunts, odd safety alignments moving forward and backing off, none of the regular season chess moves.

I agree with that our pass rush is good. However; I don't think its accurate to say that our:

Defense was running vanilla with no LOS trickery or stunts, odd safety alignments moving forward and backing off, none of the regular season chess moves.

Because we did stunt on the DL, we did use odd formations, we did bring pressure/show-then back off pressure with our SAFs.

I think we learned that we're better in terms of depth at the LB position that we may have realized.

Always felt we were deep at OLB. Its ILB depth that I was/am worried about. As it stands know my favorite ILB depth players are Kehl and Compton.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

At GHH Enterprises Enc. we only class regular and post season games for our clients.

 

But your client Jackson has already had his pro debut lol...

 

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

But your client Jackson has already had his pro debut lol...

 

 

 

 

Jackson! Well hot darn it I was told it was Jenkins! ..... Jeanine! Get in here! Your FIRED!

 

 

All at GHH Enterprises Enc. would like to apologise for this unfortunate 'oversight' and can assure our clients we won't mix them up again. In our defence, we are new to this business and small, uhmmm, 'teething' problems like this are bound to occur, Jackson. Jenkins. It all merges after a hard day at the negotiating table.

 

Now, who wants a taco?

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

I appreciate your response. So nice to have some posters on here who don't get offended when they are challenged and instead can foster a debate. I did think you said earlier that we are a better defense without him though, which you seem to retract here. 

 

So as to not talk out of both sides of my mouth here let me try and clarify what I meant by that.   I did say that we are a better defense.  Orakpo is a good player and the more good players you have on your team the better your team is.  I'd be fine with having both of them on the team (since he is on the team anyways) and involved in the defense, but I what I'd like to see is Jackson on 1st and 2nd down and then Orakpo on 3rd down in passing situations.

 

I also think we can be a successful team without Orakpo and if he doesn't show improvement in other areas this year (unless he blows the top off with his sack totals) I'd be totally fine with us spending the FA money we get next year on other positions.

 

What I don't get is that you've always asserted here and elsewhere that Jackson is a better tackler/run defender. I guess I simply have never seen anything to warrant why you don't believe Orakpo to be a sure tackler or that he is such a liability in the run game. I see Jackson as being marginally better in coverage with softer hands and that is the only area I see him as superior to Orakpo. I've always seen Orakpo set the edge pretty well against the run. 

 

Orakpo improved against the run (especially towards the end of 2011) but a lot of my criticism of him in the run game comes from him playing the pass and going after the QB and not playing the run on the way.  Dude loves to sack the QB (that's why I always say that) but it weakens his overall game.  If he was getting 15 plus sacks a year, I'd say "go get him Rak" and worry about the run later, but he isn't.  So if you're one trick isn't yeilding top shelf results, you need to hone in on improving your overall game.

 

As far as technical tackling, it's not quite a push, Orakpo is not a bad tackler but Jackson just made so many good tackles in the open field and when he got his hands on someone he usually brought him down.  That also comes from positioning yourself well to make the tackle and using the sideline and the scheme to your advantage.  You have ten other teammates out there, force the run back to the teeth of the scheme if you can't make the tackle or use the sideline, 50 does that pretty well.  Orakpo has lacked that awareness in his game and it has to improve.

 

That's where that comes from.

 

But even in the area of pass rushing, it is not all about individual stats. Our D-line went from nearly 20 sacks (I think about 18) the year before to less than 5 last year. I think Carriker is a better player than many on here give him credit for, but losing him does not account for 13-15 sacks from the interior line. Barry Cofield has recently said that getting Orakpo back makes himself, Bowen and the entire defense much better. I don't see that as being a purely pass rush kind of thing as I see Orakpo as a better all-around player than you do, although nowhere near the all-around ability of Kerrigan. I saw evidence of that against the Titans. 

 

This is something I can't argue.  He does a good job of forcing the QB to step-up.  The one thing I'd love to see is that spin move or that counter move to get him outside of the tackle.  He's been trying to run around the kick-step or bull rush tackles for years.  If he had an inside move he would be so lethal, bro.

 

He has the ability to be elite, it's just mind-boggling and frustrating as a fan to see him not refining and developing his skills... rather he stays consistent with the ones he has and that's it.

 

Every player is prone to a bad play. Jackson has had his fair share of plays where he was owned by running backs even in the backfield - last year against the Bucs when Arrelious Benn literally made Jackson fall on his face with a stutter step being an example. 

 

True.  Everyone has bad plays and even bad games.

 

And to be fair, for all I know, Jackson played out of his mind last year and will regress this year and this will be a moot point.  But based on what we've seen and the evidence throughout the history of this game is that a pass rusher is what he is after about two years.

 

While I agree that Orakpo has not reached his potential, it's important to point out that he's only in his fifth season and is only 27. He's improved in many areas - people wanted more NFC East sacks, he provided that. People wanted more forced fumbles, he has certainly shown that, forcing three in his third season and forcing one in his lone sack last year. He's not only become better in coverage but especially at getting his hands up. In 1 game and a quarter last year he batted down 3 passes and got his hands on another that he should have picked off. This includes back to back plays against the Saints where he batted passes down in the redzone against Drew Brees. 

 

I am excited to see him contribute this year.  The preview against Tennessee didn't bode well though.  Hopefully he was just fired up and wanted to hit Locker and that's not a harbinger of things to come in 2013.

 

Because that looked very much like the Orakpo we've seen for years.  He has to be especially mindful of CJ2K running the football less Locker and his threat of throwing the ball.

 

I think by the end of the year we'll both be ecstatic about Orakpo's season. In the off chance that doesn't happen and we go the cheaper route of Tapp/Jackson/Jenkins I will be disappointed he did not reach his potential here and sad to see him go somewhere else and have success. 

 

Dude, this pass rush has the potential to be pretty epic.  If we get it going, the ball hawks in the secondary get confidence and the east coast offense gets the ball back

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I still have faith that Hankerson can become elite.  He has the tools to do so.  He has flashed elite potential at times.   I remember watching his first game against Miami two years ago.  He looked kind of like Dez Bryant in that game before he got hurt and missed the rest of the season.  Last year, he was coming back from a season ending injury and you could tell he was a bit too cautious acting, like he wasn't over the mental aspect of the injury.  I hope this year he continues to gain confidence and that he's past the mental part of his injury.  I'm not saying he will be like Dez Bryant, but he has the potential to be up there with him if he continues to improve.  It took Dez a few years before he started emerging as elite. For a while, Dez was inconsistent who showed flashes of being elite.  He finally made that step last year.  Hopefully Hankerson can do the same.

Dez came into the league 2 years ago and is already garnering irk from CBs... when will Hankerson do that?

[RG3Hunna]

The front seven played well, Tapp played well, and Orakpo didn't play.

 

That means the front seven is better off without Orakpo, the entire defense is better off without Orakpo, and he's rather easily replaceable with at least 2-3 guys already on the team.

This is the same jumping to conclusion this message board did when Pat White played well against the titans.Then Rex plays well against the steelers against the 1st team and now everyone changes their tune and now realizes Pat White was never a viable option for the number 3 spot even though HTTR was already telling everyone that. 

 

You guys are doing it all over again, i'm laughing internally because I know as soon as the regular season starts and tapp starts looking like a "Journeyman" again you guys will start singing a different tune again. 

 

Checking this message board the week after a game is always the most entertaining thing because the overreaction from this fanbase over mediocre players playing well with a small sample size is hilarious to watch. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So anyway .....

 

That Niles Paul dude. Not very good. 

 

Hail. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Dez came into the league 2 years ago and is already garnering irk from CBs... when will Hankerson do that?

Dez came into the league 3 years ago.

 

And Dez was drafted in the middle of the 1st round (would have been higher if not for off-the-field problems). And has had Tony Romo sits to pee throwing him the ball.

 

Hankerson was drafted 2 years ago, and in the 3rd round. And went on IR his rookie season. And has had Rex Grossman and John Beck throwing him the ball.

 

That miiiiiiight help to understand why one has seemed to arrive earlier than the other, don't you think?