D&T.com: McDonalds’ suggested budget for employees shows just how impossible it is to get by on minimum wage

[endzone_dave]

How much did you pay for that hot dog?

 

Judging by the small number of people of KD, I don't they are rolling in profits right now, if that's what you're driving at.

[Springfield]

How much did you pay for that hot dog?

Judging by the small number of people of KD, I don't they are rolling in profits right now, if that's what you're driving at.

I'm assuming that the hot dog you bought was on the low end probably $3 but probably closer to $5-7.

Considering the cost of the dog, condiments, etc was probably close to $1 on the high end, paying that unskilled, rude, messy person minimum wage yields incredible profits.

I'll take it a step further. The asshats serving you your $9 beers at FedEx. Are you saying that those people shouldn't be able to buy a beer for one hour's worth of work?

[8181]

Oh God, add the ability to buy one overpriced bottle of beer at a concession stand for each hour you work as another God given right.  Beer arguably not being a necessity withstanding, forcing people to buy beer at a supermarket is just deplorable.  Why stop there, let's make it one bottle of Johnny Walker Blue at a night club (because buying it at a liquor store is such a hardship) per hour as the standard for the minimum wage to be based on.  That should raise the standard of living in NYC.

[endzone_dave]

 

How much did you pay for that hot dog?

Judging by the small number of people of KD, I don't they are rolling in profits right now, if that's what you're driving at.

I'm assuming that the hot dog you bought was on the low end probably $3 but probably closer to $5-7.

Considering the cost of the dog, condiments, etc was probably close to $1 on the high end, paying that unskilled, rude, messy person minimum wage yields incredible profits.

I'll take it a step further. The asshats serving you your $9 beers at FedEx. Are you saying that those people shouldn't be able to buy a beer for one hour's worth of work?

You also have to include the costs of your rollercoasters in your business model.  The hot dog place doesn't operate in a vacuum. 

[GhostofSparta]

I'll take it a step further. The asshats serving you your $9 beers at FedEx. Are you saying that those people shouldn't be able to buy a beer for one hour's worth of work?

 

 

I think that's a better argument for lowering the cost of beer at football games than for raising minimum wage.

[Springfield]

Oh God, add the ability to buy one overpriced bottle of beer at a concession stand for each hour you work as another God given right. Beer arguably not being a necessity withstanding, forcing people to buy beer at a supermarket is just deplorable. Why stop there, let's make it one bottle of Johnny Walker Blue at a night club (because buying it at a liquor store is such a hardship) per hour as the standard for the minimum wage to be based on. That should raise the standard of living in NYC.

You don't get it.

The cost of our goods is increasing. The cost of what we pay for "stuff" is increasing. "Stuff" including but not limited to: Gas, housing, vehicles and related repairs, Internet service, goods at events, etc.

The cost paid to workers who supply and perform this "stuff" has not increased in the same fashion. Yay capitalism!

Of course, some of this increase in prices does not make for increased revenues for the supplies of this "stuff". A lot of it does though. Oil

Companies are making record profits. Some automakers are making huge profits. We all know about the housing boom. I guarantee that beer vendors at events are making a killing.

But, there's always the military. Right? Lets send all of our rude, uneducated, poor people to serve in the military cause that's their ONLY option.

I'll take it a step further. The asshats serving you your $9 beers at FedEx. Are you saying that those people shouldn't be able to buy a beer for one hour's worth of work?

I think that's a better argument for lowering the cost of beer at football games than for raising minimum wage.

I could go for that!

[elkabong82]

elkabong82, you keep talking about "below average".  Simple math says that if you make below average money, you're not going to be able to afford average things.  Luckily, in America, being below average doesn't mean you live in ****ty conditions. 

 

What you're arguing is that even people who make below average wages are entitled to live without roommates and have a newer car and the freedom to sit on their ass and watch TV and the right to afford these things while living in one of the most expensive areas of the country.  You make it sound like driving a 12 year old car and living with a roommate is a living hell. 

 

Maybe we should champion an $80 per hour minimum wage in New York City so no one has to deal with living with a roommate and has the God-given right to live in a nice area of Manhattan.  Let's add it into the Bill of Rights that no one should be deprived of the right to own a car built within the last 5 years, because by God, a 2000 Honda Civic is UNCIVILIZED.

 

By the way, anyone who wants to **** and moan can join the military.  If doctors and lawyers can do it, so can people who work at McDonalds.

 

I'm talking about the bottom line, not just "below average." You are confusing necessary living commodities with average goods. Should a person working 60 hours a week not be able to afford to heat their home on the McD's budget?

 

You obviously have no clue what I am arguing, despite me spelling it out simply various times throughout this thread. What I am arguing, again, is that a person making minimum wage working 60 hours a week should make enough to where they can live decently on their own. This means housing, transportation, basic necessities, other costs, and also a bit for savings. 

 

What you are arguing is a nonsensical POV that is very far removed from the reality of the situation. You offer 1 place for rent at $500 and act as if that is the norm. It is not. What happens when EVERY person at low wage takes up your suggestion? They can't all get that cheap housing, most are going to have to get what the average is, and it is a lot more than $500.

 

Roommates? Ok, go find some. What's that? You don't have internet? You aren't making enough to save up for 1st AND last month's rent AND security deposit? You offer solutions that for you may seem simple but clearly you give no thought at all to the process involved in carrying out the solutions you offer.

 

I never said have a newer car either, just pointed out the reality that an old car will come with extra maintenance costs. Again, not my fault you don't consider the entirety of your solutions.

 

If a person works 60 hours a week, then I see no fault in them "sitting on their ass and watching TV."  That comment right there says it all about the "clarity" of your perspective on the matter.

 

You also seem to suggest moving out of the expensive area is something that can be simply done. Wrong again. Once again you fail to see the full impact of your solutions. Again one needs to save up money to move, which the budget shows is very difficult if not feasible. One needs to find a job out there, not easy in this economy and in a cheaper area there won't be as many jobs. Hope you don't have any family obligations keeping you close by. Hope you don't plan on attending school ever since it's not likely to exist in a cheaper, probably more isolated area.

 

Nobody is suggesting $80/hr, and in fact all have said min. wage raise should be reasonable, not raised crazy high. That is logical fallacy you are using and is more of yet another example of your complete failing in understanding a perspective different from yours on this subject. NYC was brought up by another poster who claimed a sibling lived there on min. wage, myself and others showed the numbers did not add up at all. Not sure why you keep harping about that. Maybe you should re-read the thread and try and get a better grasp on the arguments you are trying to counter.

 

Your military solution is just as short-sighted as your rent solution. You are only viewing a solution applicable to a segment of the population. If everyone tried to get that cheap rent place, they couldn't. Most are subject to the average housing cost. The military can only afford to have so many, it is not a viable solution if ALL the low wage workers tried to get in. Plus, you completely ignore the physically unable who can't join. Oh well, too bad for them.

 

Your opinions on this matter seem to be woefully outdated as well as completely oblivious to the reality of the situation low wage earners are in, hence your short-sighted and not thought out solutions and terrible attitude that at times seems to imply low wage earners are only there because they are lazy, a myth seeded in ignorance.

[elkabong82]

Just got back from Kings Dominion.  For lunch, we all had hot dogs.  One of the people working the there only had one job: assemble the hot dogs.  That only involved putting the hot dog on the bun and at most adding chili, cheese, and onions.  That's it - and she was horrible at it.  For some reason it took forever.

 

I have no idea her perosnal situation, maybe she had five kids to feed for all I know.  But I can't in any way, no matter how much I'd like to see her have a better life, give her more than minimum wage.  There are just some jobs so easy a 4th grader could do it, and I can't see handing out $12 an hour for it.  Sorry.

 

You need to consider updating your views on the worth of money. First, nobody in here said up the min. wage to $12. I and others said $10. If someone is in the heat all day, serving a bunch of customers, I don't see an issue with a ten spot for an hours worth of work. Park employees have other responsibilities too. They aren't stuck at just one vending job, rather they rotate. For all you know that person today was working their very 1st day behind that counter, or was exhausted from working a 2nd job since their day job is likely only part-time. Just because a job is easy to do doesn't mean that doing it for 60 hours a week shouldn't be enough to live on. 

 

An hours worth of work, after taxes it's $8.50 if there is a $10 min. wage. I don't care how simple the job is. If the employer wants to offer a job that simple, then that is on them. Someone has to do it, and they shouldn't be made to earn less because people like you think there is no value or merit to their work, despite the fact they are serving YOU. Right now she probably got $6 after taxes for an hour of work, not even enough for 2 gallons of gas. 

 

You do realize that if enough people devalue basic jobs that need to be filled and the pay reflects that, then soon nobody is going to take those jobs and then you'll have nobody to serve you. Then you'll be getting food from a common area, so imagine how dirty the Starbuck's counter is where sugar and stirrers are, but you are getting food from there. Hey, those people cleaning up the park or store, that is an easy job a kid could do also. Who needs them? Then the place is filthy, but that wouldn't be a bother would it? No way. Or maybe just because a job seems simple doesn't mean we should overlook its necessity or the difficulty in doing it for hours on end, to the tune of 60 hours a week to, right now, barely eke out a living. If you look at it through such a perspective, and view that McD's budget along with, you gain a better perspective on it and why the minimum wage right now isn't enough.

 

There will always be jobs that are the lowest on the totem pole that pay the lowest. But so many members of our society fill these jobs. In a consumer society you need to have these jobs and have them filled. Those workers need to make enough to where, with 2 jobs, not 1 but 2, they can have a relatively bare minimum living, save a little bit, and have a decent purchase ability. That is what keeps the economy going. By keeping the min wage so low that people working 60 hours can barely live off if it, can't improve their education, or improve their situation without almost having to move heaven and Earth to do so, the purchase power is crippled and the economy dragged down with it.

 

Historically too wide of a disparity between the top and bottom line has always hurt our economy and the country in general as less education is received by the population at large, leading to people staying in poverty and keeping crime high. The bottom line has to be at a rate that matches the rate of increase of everyone else. That portion of the population is a considerable chunk of the population in general. How far can a person get with a busted leg? Not very. If the bottom line can't live, it drags the rest of the country down like a busted leg. The welfare of the masses is much more important than many people realize. It can mean the prosperity or the down slide of a country.

 

So while you think $10/hr for serving hot dogs is unreasonable, what you are doing is condemning a large chunk of the US population to wages so low they can't earn a living even working 60 hours a week and saying "oh well get a different job, problem solved," and don't consider that not all of them can collectively do that because the job market is limited and you then don't consider that those jobs you devalue need to be filled. Someone has to work them and since they are necessary then the wage should be enough to make ones way through life. This was the whole concept behind instituting a minimum wage in the first place.

[HeluCopter29]

elkabong82, you keep talking about "below average".  Simple math says that if you make below average money, you're not going to be able to afford average things.  Luckily, in America, being below average doesn't mean you live in ****ty conditions. 

 

What you're arguing is that even people who make below average wages are entitled to live without roommates and have a newer car and the freedom to sit on their ass and watch TV and the right to afford these things while living in one of the most expensive areas of the country.  You make it sound like driving a 12 year old car and living with a roommate is a living hell. 

 

Maybe we should champion an $80 per hour minimum wage in New York City so no one has to deal with living with a roommate and has the God-given right to live in a nice area of Manhattan.  Let's add it into the Bill of Rights that no one should be deprived of the right to own a car built within the last 5 years, because by God, a 2000 Honda Civic is UNCIVILIZED.

 

By the way, anyone who wants to **** and moan can join the military.  If doctors and lawyers can do it, so can people who work at McDonalds.

 

You're view of what minimum wage brings you is obviously flawed.

 

16.6% of Americans are food insecure.  Unemployment is 7.6%.

 

There's something fundamentally flawed when we don't give someone working 40 hours a week enough to eat.

[endzone_dave]

How about we tax companies more like Apple, Walmart, and Exxon-Mobile who make billions in profits and make sure the people who are struggling to buy food and have a roof over their head have the means to do so.  I don't think raising the minimum wage is the solution.

[HeluCopter29]

How about we tax companies more like Apple, Walmart, and Exxon-Mobile who make billions in profits and make sure the people who are struggling to buy food and have a roof over their head have the means to do so.  I don't think raising the minimum wage is the solution.

 

For the same reason we shouldn't raise minimum wage.

 

"They'll just move the jobs overseas where it's cheaper"

 

The reality is that the powers that be will always find weird ways to get around things.  (check out this article about temp jobs: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/07/temporary-jobs-becoming-permanent-fixture/2496585/)

 

Until we start caring about building something other than our pocket book we're not going to get anywhere.

[Springfield]

If we tax the rich companies and give it to the poor people then there will be complaints. I already hear plenty of it here from opponents to welfare, Medicaid and other state sponsored programs of the such.

I think you'd get much less complaints by just paying the workers enough to have a stable environment.

[8181]

Check out the illegal immigrants in Annandale standing in front of the 7-11 at the corner of Hummer and Little River Turnpike.  They don't seem starving to me.  I don't think they're dying from frostbite either.  In fact, I'd be willing to bet they provide that 7-11 with a pretty large portion of its revenue through all the snacks and drinks and coffee they buy.

 

The fact that illegal immigrants are getting by right in the heart of Fairfax County just debunks the entire continuous stream of excuses being made for minimum wage workers.

 

"You offer 1 place for rent at $500 and act as if that is the norm. It is not."

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/roo?query=&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=500

 

That's not one place. 

 

"Hope you don't have any family obligations keeping you close by."

Oh yeah, I bet these illegal immigrants sure didn't have any obligations.

 

"Roommates? Ok, go find some. What's that? You don't have internet? You aren't making enough to save up for 1st AND last month's rent AND security deposit?  [...] You also seem to suggest moving out of the expensive area is something that can be simply done. Wrong again."

 

Oh yeah, I bet sneaking across the border through the help of coyotes for a sum of money was a lot easier than moving to a different county.  I wonder why the overdramatized first AND last month's rent AND security deposit didn't stop them?

 

"The military can only afford to have so many, it is not a viable solution if ALL the low wage workers tried to get in."

Lucky for us, there are plenty of low wage workers who WON'T join the military and rather continue to **** and moan.  So nope, this doesn't apply.

 

"You do realize that if enough people devalue basic jobs that need to be filled and the pay reflects that, then soon nobody is going to take those jobs and then you'll have nobody to serve you."

So faced with the choice of minimum wage or no job.... You believe the logical choice is no job.  Hmmm.  If that is the choice being made by anyone, they deserve to die on the street, preferably in a painful manner to give them time to regret making such an idiotic decision.

[8181]

elkabong82, you keep talking about "below average".  Simple math says that if you make below average money, you're not going to be able to afford average things.  Luckily, in America, being below average doesn't mean you live in ****ty conditions. 

 

What you're arguing is that even people who make below average wages are entitled to live without roommates and have a newer car and the freedom to sit on their ass and watch TV and the right to afford these things while living in one of the most expensive areas of the country.  You make it sound like driving a 12 year old car and living with a roommate is a living hell. 

 

Maybe we should champion an $80 per hour minimum wage in New York City so no one has to deal with living with a roommate and has the God-given right to live in a nice area of Manhattan.  Let's add it into the Bill of Rights that no one should be deprived of the right to own a car built within the last 5 years, because by God, a 2000 Honda Civic is UNCIVILIZED.

 

By the way, anyone who wants to **** and moan can join the military.  If doctors and lawyers can do it, so can people who work at McDonalds.

 

You're view of what minimum wage brings you is obviously flawed.

 

16.6% of Americans are food insecure.  Unemployment is 7.6%.

 

There's something fundamentally flawed when we don't give someone working 40 hours a week enough to eat.

 

If you feel so strongly, use this site and distribute the results to the food insecure and unemployed:

 

http://www.goarmy.com/locate-a-recruiter.html

 

Yeah, I had a feeling you wouldn't.

[elkabong82]

So basically 8181 you aren't interested in countering my actual arguments seeing as you didn't address any of the actual flaws in your opinion that I pointed out and seem to be stuck on repeat.

 

One more time with rent: There are so many low wage earners that they all can't access $500 rent places. For so many people the average cost of housing has to apply and it is higher than $500 in a lot of areas. That's just basic math.

 

I wasn't aware that all low wage workers were illegal immigrants nor that every immigrant you see outside of 7-11 is an illegal. Thanks for verifying that you are operating off of ignorance and assumption. That is much more convincing than myself and others showing how a 60 hour a week monthly budget on minimum wage doesn't work out. But hey, who needs math and facts when we have your gloriously accurate views? 

 

Do you even realize that a lot of immigrants already know people here and move in with them, and many of those cases are where they overcrowd an apartment past its intended capacity so rent becomes affordable. There was another point in history where that was common place, it was the Gilded Age and it led to slums. 

 

First and last months rent isn't "overdramatized" it is a fact, a necessity if someone is going to do your solution of moving to a less expensive area where they probably don't know anyone. The fact you so willingly ignore such a fact is just another sign of how little consideration you give to the solutions you offer and how little you actually understand of the topic.

 

The military can only afford so many people, and a lot of people physically are unable to join the military. So your solution of "just join" isn't a viable one when applied to everyone we are talking about. Your views on laziness don't matter because your solution is short-sighted and impractical, not to mention it completely ignores the disabled.

 

The fact your first budget was a failure, so was McD's, and so have others posted in here, despite having 60 hours week instead of just 40 to use, really says it all about minimum wage needing to be increased.

[skinsmarydu]

How about we tax companies more like Apple, Walmart, and Exxon-Mobile who make billions in profits and make sure the people who are struggling to buy food and have a roof over their head have the means to do so.  I don't think raising the minimum wage is the solution.

Exxon-Mobile gets a tax subsidy...Part of the Cheney Energy Summit thingy that no one (outside of the oil industry) was allowed to attend.  They pay a lower effective rate than we non-billionaires. 

[8181]

"I wasn't aware that all low wage workers were illegal immigrants nor that every immigrant you see outside of 7-11 is an illegal. Thanks for verifying that you are operating off of ignorance and assumption. That is much more convincing than myself and others showing how a 60 hour a week monthly budget on minimum wage doesn't work out. But hey, who needs math and facts when we have your gloriously accurate views?"

 

 

That's not what I said, and I don't feel the need to now defend myself against accusations of being an ignorant bigot.  I'm reporting your post, which the rest of consists of theoretical possibilities that aren't really grounded in arguing actual facts, for example, how about we argue about housing prices not being a realistic part of the budget AFTER the $500 roommate situations disappear.

[rictus58]

As far as the "join the military" argument is concerned...

I've seen a number of posts here over the years from former service men and women stating the Military is not a dumping ground for those who cannot gain worthwile employment elsewhere.

Additionally...

http://nation.time.com/2013/03/22/the-ground-truth-about-veterans-unemployment/

For new veterans aged 18-24, the unemployment rate averaged 20.4% in 2012, more than five percentage points higher than the average among non-veterans aged 18-24......

So, let’s take a look. In 2012, the unemployment rate for post-9/11 veterans between the ages of 45 and 54 was 7.7%, more than a percentage point higher than the average among non-veterans between 45 and 54, which was 6.2%. No matter how you cut the data, the fact remains that despite the technical, leadership and entrepreneurial skills a veteran gains in service, today’s generation of veterans is facing unemployment rates higher on average than their civilian peers.

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2013/03/22/the-ground-truth-about-veterans-unemployment/#ixzz2ZmLFltcR

 

 

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Yellowstone, if you are in school and making $8 per hour, why are you even bothering to look at one-bedroom apartments? I shared a place with four other guys (4 BR/2.5 BA) during my senior year of college. I had roommates until I got married, and by that time I had been making $50-70K for five or six years. Not only will your rent/mortgage be significantly lower, but so will your utilities.

Personally, I believe that part of the problem is that some people believe that working a job and being a certain age entitles them to certain things. Some people don't distinguish between what they need and what they want.

 

That's the point, I CANT look for one bedroom apartments. I can't look for really low priced bedrooms in someone's house. My father was able to pay his tuition at University of Maryland ($200 a semester) by working a low wage job at a grocery store when he was growing up, along with living on his own. Even if I worked my ass off and slept 4 hours a night while working any time I didn't have classes, that would be impossible. Tuition is much closer to $10,000 a semester along with the increases in housing and gas prices. If I was growing up in the 60s or 70s I would absolutely have the opportunity to live on my own and pay for my own school. My aunt makes 100k+ a year at the DoE with a high school education. My father's ex-girlfriend work a nice job at the state department traveling the world for 120k+ with a high school education. That doesn't happen anymore and I can't do that.Things are way different now and I think that's what a lot of you don't understand. Do you realize college tuition has DOUBLED since the year 2000? I don't think I'm entitled to anything, but to see all these people say "Well 25 years ago I worked 2 jobs and paid for my own house and got my kid through private school" etc. without acknowledging the huge changes the economy and life has gone though is annoying.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yellowstone, if you are in school and making $8 per hour, why are you even bothering to look at one-bedroom apartments? I shared a place with four other guys (4 BR/2.5 BA) during my senior year of college. I had roommates until I got married, and by that time I had been making $50-70K for five or six years. Not only will your rent/mortgage be significantly lower, but so will your utilities.

Personally, I believe that part of the problem is that some people believe that working a job and being a certain age entitles them to certain things. Some people don't distinguish between what they need and what they want.

 

That's the point, I CANT look for one bedroom apartments. I can't look for really low priced bedrooms in someone's house. My father was able to pay his tuition at University of Maryland ($200 a semester) by working a low wage job at a grocery store when he was growing up, along with living on his own. Even if I worked my ass off and slept 4 hours a night while working any time I didn't have classes, that would be impossible. Tuition is much closer to $10,000 a semester along with the increases in housing and gas prices. If I was growing up in the 60s or 70s I would absolutely have the opportunity to live on my own and pay for my own school. My aunt makes 100k+ a year at the DoE with a high school education. My father's ex-girlfriend work a nice job at the state department traveling the world for 120k+ with a high school education. That doesn't happen anymore and I can't do that.Things are way different now and I think that's what a lot of you don't understand. Do you realize college tuition has DOUBLED since the year 2000? I don't think I'm entitled to anything, but to see all these people say "Well 25 years ago I worked 2 jobs and paid for my own house and got my kid through private school" etc. without acknowledging the huge changes the economy and life has gone though is annoying.

 

I understand you are passionate about your side of the debate, but you really didn't address my primary question:

• Why would someone just branching out on his own be looking to live by himself instead of sharing a place with roommates to reduce costs?

My anecdote was to show you that I didn't even attempt to live on my own until I was married...and that was while making much more than minimum wage. Someone who wants to move out and make it on their own (meaning away from parents) can still share a residence with roommates. Not everyone can have their first place be a one-bedroom to themselves. I shared a bathroom with 4 guys and it's not fun...but to me it was necessary to stay within my price range.

[NoCalMike]

I think some folks are starting to miss the point of this thread.

 

This isn't about debating how little you can earn and still scrape by, by the skin of your teeth to survive in America.

 

This thread is a discussion about why the process itself has become more difficult to handle then the previous 3 generations where it was seemingly getting better and better.

 

We all know that theoretically you can go out and get 2-3 jobs while being a student, and get by on 5 hours of sleep a night if the situation calls for it.  The question is why is that an acceptable resolution/outcome for young students or folks in general?

 

The purchasing power has seemed to decrease over the last 30 years.  I stated earlier in this thread, my mother put herself through college with a single low wage job. (Not sure if she lived on her own or not, would have to ask), which included all the expenses that come with school.

 

It seemed the goal used to be to make things better and easier for the next generation but now the ideals and principles and goals seem to be going in the opposite direction as a "I got mine, screw you" attitude is becoming the norm.

 

No one is talking about making a wage that affords you as nice car or a home. 

[elkabong82]

"I wasn't aware that all low wage workers were illegal immigrants nor that every immigrant you see outside of 7-11 is an illegal. Thanks for verifying that you are operating off of ignorance and assumption. That is much more convincing than myself and others showing how a 60 hour a week monthly budget on minimum wage doesn't work out. But hey, who needs math and facts when we have your gloriously accurate views?"

 

 

That's not what I said, and I don't feel the need to now defend myself against accusations of being an ignorant bigot.  I'm reporting your post, which the rest of consists of theoretical possibilities that aren't really grounded in arguing actual facts, for example, how about we argue about housing prices not being a realistic part of the budget AFTER the $500 roommate situations disappear.

 

Do you have any proof the people you see outside 7-11 are illegals? No, you don't, it's an assumption you made. Is military a viable solution for everyone? No, it isn't, another assumption. You assume illegal immigrants are getting by, I pointed out how some do by basically slumming and the way they do shouldn't be acceptable. So yes, your opinion was based off assumption and ignorance to the reality of the situation. I never said you were a bigot.

 

A workable budget would be convincing, so far you and others have failed to make a realistic one and that is what speaks volumes about the situation. The budget proves minimum wage is too low.

 

I have argued facts and shot down your solutions with facts. There are so many low wage workers that if all were looking for new housing then they couldn't all have access to the few $500 rent places. Instead they'd be subject to the average cost of housing, which in places is higher. Again, math. An old car is fine, so long as you can get a loan as a low wage earner with no money down, but maintenance costs should be expected, again facts. Military isn't a viable solution for everyone and they can only afford so many. Again, facts. Finding roommates isn't something you conjure out of thin air, it takes resources like internet and phone, and then you have to hope these strangers are reliable. It's a solution for some, but not all. Even with roommates, $500 in some areas is lower than actual price. 

 

But really your anecdotal "evidence" and all of the rest is just semantics. It's already been shown with math that the 60 hours/week budget is not really viable at current minimum wage but that the budget if minimum wage were raised just 2 dollars and change is a viable one and the cost to employers would not be significant.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

elka, I think you are making fine points with one exception...

 

It's a little dramatic to say that you cannot find roommates without constant Internet access. If someone needs to find a roommate or roommates, I think there are dozens of ways to do that through talking to friends, family, co-workers, etc.

 

Also, while we're discussing housing, 8181's link to a CL page is one avenue. Another for someone making minimum wage is subsidized living. I recall there being plenty of apartments in Arlington and Fairfax counties (and probably every other county) that were off-limits unless you made under a certain amount of money. HUD budgets BILLIONS of dollars for these types of programs.

[Hubbs]

It's absolutely true that purchasing power has decreased. The prices of a few things have gone down (clothing, electronics, cheap plastic stuff) while the prices of many things people NEED (housing, health care, education) have skyrocketed over the past few decades, climbing much faster than general inflation. This is a conversation I've had with my dad a few times, and as someone who climbed the corporate ladder and is now retiring, he still doesn't really seem to see how imbalanced inflation has cut into so many peoples' budgets. It's hard to find anyone who even really talks about it on a regular basis.

[elkabong82]

elka, I think you are making fine points with one exception...

 

It's a little dramatic to say that you cannot find roommates without constant Internet access. If someone needs to find a roommate or roommates, I think there are dozens of ways to do that through talking to friends, family, co-workers, etc.

 

Also, while we're discussing housing, 8181's link to a CL page is one avenue. Another for someone making minimum wage is subsidized living. I recall there being plenty of apartments in Arlington and Fairfax counties (and probably every other county) that were off-limits unless you made under a certain amount of money. HUD budgets BILLIONS of dollars for these types of programs.

 

Those are all good points. What I was trying to say and looking back I only implied, was that finding roommates requires resources and time, and in cases money down on a new place, not to mention strangers are always a risky proposition. That doesn't mean it should be avoided, just that inherent risk should be understood. It certainly is not impossible and I agree that it should be common sense that a person on a very, very thin budget try and find the cheapest yet reasonable housing.

 

Subsidized living is also a viable avenue but also faces the reality of limited spacing. That was my point with average housing costs having to be applied because there are so many people and the resources we speak of, while good solutions, aren't available for all due to limitations, so average housing costs are applicable to many. 

 

But even with rent at $500-600 we saw the budget was unworkable. If you go to an area with cheaper housing then you have the problem of an even more limited job market, plus those areas are small so it is not a solution for that everyone can use.

 

But raising the minimum wage solves the issue and also would open up the housing market, which desperately needs that right now.