Pissed at my university...Am I being unreasonable?

[dwmyers]

1) I think  the school should assist Major Harris  in getting the degree.

2) My last year of school I needed PE credit and so took tae kwon do. I lost a good ten pounds, and it might not have been as strenuous as rock climbing.

3) When I applied and was accepted to Rice University's graduate program, I don't think they cared what PE/Gen studies classes I took.

 

D-

[Major Harris]

1) I think  the school should assist Major Harris  in getting the degree.

2) My last year of school I needed PE credit and so took tae kwon do. I lost a good ten pounds, and it might not have been as strenuous as rock climbing.

3) When I applied and was accepted to Rice University's graduate program, I don't think they cared what PE/Gen studies classes I took.

 

D-

Not following number one....

[DaGoonie55]

Also, can anyone explain to me why a DD214 only transfers 4 credit hours towards a degree? 4

 

I have no idea why. I got raked over the coals as well.  I had over 1000 credits in correspondence courses (not copying from the cd either - wish I had known about that when I was a private) and I got jack for them.  I was given leadership 2 credits and phys ed 2 credits.  None of my math or science transferred either( from 1998).  Calc, Calc II, Calc III, Physics, Biology, Chemistry I & II....they told me they're only good for 2 years.  I asked them if every 2 years math changed to the point that my education was no longer valid.  The lady stared at me - deer in the headlight style.

 

Another question for you hiring managers out there.  If someone can demonstrate exceptional ability at a profession, why does a piece of paper from some institution count for more?  I'm easily in the top 1% of my company as far as database management at a warehouse and I have to have a degree to become a supervisor.  Then - who does management send to ME for training when they're hired....yep...those supervisors who have that all important degree.  I'm well on my way towards the degree - but I just don't understand upper management thinking sometimes.

[Special K]

Yeah, I'd be very upset.  I would also file an official complaint with the administration in addition to physically going into the Alumni Relations Office (or whatever your alumni office is called) and tell them to take your name and address off their list because you are so upset you will not be sending them a dime.  Ever.  That might at least prompt some inquiry.

 

As for not letting these 2 credits "ruin your time plan," I would just bite the bullet, pay the extra hundreds of dollars and take the 3 credit class or an online course.  I'd still be really ticked off, but it looks like you're going to have to take it upon yourself to get your degree completed (which will likely cost extra money).  Sign up for the class then continue to argue your case...although I wouldn't put too much stock in the situation being resolved to your liking...

 

 

This reminds me to insist on seeing a full transcript for every graduate we hire.

 

A 2-credit rock climbing class? For ****'s sake.

 

They did you a favor by canceling it. 

Oh come on!  We all have to take a bullcrap class here and there in college to have a little relief from a crazy schedule sometimes

 

I had a science majors and minors in college and had a rough schedule most of the time.  I don't think it was inappropriate for me to take a few fun classes here and there. Based on my college experience, the easiest class I had in college was 400 level Animal Physiology - taught by a raging alcoholic who often came to class drunk and/or drinking from a "cough syrup" bottle and gave my partner and I an A+ in the class for making an artistic animal picture book.  Seriously.  Anyway, I know that's an outlier for a high level science course, but I wouldn't discount a college grad. just b/c they took a few easy A's during their 4 years  

[Skinz4Life12]

Ok so apparently there is a "viable contract" in place but the wording is not exactly how the NPS wants it so the contract can't be submitted yet. The university legal team has until tomorrow to get the wording fixed so I am really hoping they can get it done

[Corcaigh]

Oh come on!  We all have to take a bullcrap class here and there in college to have a little relief from a crazy schedule sometimes

 

That's what alcohol, drugs and sex are for. Not extra pointless classes.

 

So much for academic rigor. Have fun pursuing such interests in clubs where you aren't paying thousands of dollars to attend a stupid ****ing class.

 

Why not just spend the money on alcohol or a bribe for a university official. 

[mjah]

MIT encouraged/required students to take a "goofball" course or two, precisely because their students were overloading themselves with science/tech courses.  At least when my brother went 20 years ago.

 

I can confirm that this is still true.

 

There are humanities/arts/social science requirements for any MIT undergrad degree, some of which qualify as "goofball" courses, And all undergrads are required to take 4 phys ed classes and pass a swim test (or take a swim class).

[The Sisko]

[quote name="Corcaigh" post="9484337"

I am certainly an old curmudgeon. I'm a snotty ****. And I studied engineering in a university back in the day that wouldn't contemplate this kind of nonsense. I think it's ridiculous that US colleges both require this bull**** as part of their graduation requirements and charge for it like they are providing a useful service. By all means people should explore some extra curricular activities like basket weaving or rock climbing. But that's what college clubs are for.

Not always entirely true. I was reflecting a few weeks ago that some of the most valuable classes I took as an undergrad were "BS" classes. I was introduced to and gained a real appreciation for jazz and a love for blues which I had previously only thought of as "old crap". I learned techniques for managing stress and spent time with elderly people and learned about aging issues. I also took a course on death and dying which turned out to be perhaps one of the most valuable courses I took during my time in College Park. All told those courses totaled only 12 credits toward my degree but they provided me with immense value. I'm a big believer that college should not only be an academic exercise but a preparation for life. If managed properly those "BS" courses can do just that.

As for the OP, I don't have any new/different suggestions outside of those already provided. However if they schtup you out of graduating on time I'd suggest starting a fb page/website that explains what happened. Then pay a loud visit to campus during prospective student campus tours to advertise the university being responsible for you not graduating on time. If you're lucky enough to hit a slow news day you might even get a little media attention. Sure, it won't make a real difference but if you're at all like me it'll at least make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside which has gotta count for something. :-)

[s0crates]

Reading it again, I kinda do... But you can't tell me that the higher education in America isn't geared more to making money than helping people.

 

What you have said about education is true I think, but not only of education.  You could say the same thing about most everything in America from health care, to insurance, to agriculture, to almost any kind of industry really.  It's the nature of the beast.  

 

I only comment because I have often thought this whole profits-before-people mentality is one of the most fundamental problems of our times.

[s0crates]

Not always entirely true. I was reflecting a few weeks ago that some of the most valuable classes I took as an undergrad were "BS" classes. I was introduced to and gained a real appreciation for jazz and a love for blues which I had previously only thought of as "old crap". I learned techniques for managing stress and spent time with elderly people and learned about aging issues. I also took a course on death and dying which turned out to be perhaps one of the most valuable courses I took during my time in College Park. All told those courses totaled only 12 credits toward my degree but they provided me with immense value. I'm a big believer that college should not only be an academic exercise but a preparation for life. If managed properly those "BS" courses can do just that.

 

 

You are talking about two different kinds of things here.  Corcaigh is talking about education as vocational training, you are talking about education as personal development.  He is focused on the instrumental value of education, you more on the intrinsic value of it.  Engineering is a far more useful field than painting or philosophy, to be sure, but how drab would the world be without art?  Or, for the matter, how hard would life be without engineers?  

 

There are vocational-technical schools on one hand, and there are Universities on the other. They are not the same thing.

 

A University is a place that purports to seek and preserve knowledge of the universe, that is, knowledge of all things.  University's are places for the study of everything, even seemingly useless things like fine arts and sports.  Vo-tech schools are geared toward seemingly more useful things like career training.

 

So to me the real question is:  Do you want your society to have only vo-tech schools, or only Universities, or would it be better if we had both?

[jnhay]

I like hiring well-rounded people. But taking a two-week class to fulfill an idiotic Gen Ed requirement is not the same as having actual hobbies and interests.

Let's be fair here ... the school would be just as happy and he would get as much benefit if he was able to pay someone to falsify his transcript. :-)

It's all about money with those classes. I remember my school actually had a walking class. The dummies would actually just walk around campus for an hour.

[mrcunning15]

Good luck with this I'm actually in the post-bach cert accounting program @ GMU and I finally have enough credits to sit for the CPA. But it kind of sucks that I can't officially say I have accounting degree but after reading your story I'm kind of glad that I just went for this program rather than deal with the crap of working full time and having to take some crap courses, and extend the process further.

 

GMU administratively is awful my wife almost got dropped from grad school b/c GMU had her down as out of state student she didn't know this so she paid in-state tutuion the funny thing is, is that she has lived in VA her whole life so I have no idea how they made that big of a mistake. They finally corrected the mistake but she had to jump through alot of hoops to get it done and GMU wasn't very apologetic about it all and wouldn't even admit they made a mistake.

[Skinz4Life12]

Good luck with this I'm actually in the post-bach cert accounting program @ GMU and I finally have enough credits to sit for the CPA. But it kind of sucks that I can't officially say I have accounting degree but after reading your story I'm kind of glad that I just went for this program rather than deal with the crap of working full time and having to take some crap courses, and extend the process further.

 

GMU administratively is awful my wife almost got dropped from grad school b/c GMU had her down as out of state student she didn't know this so she paid in-state tutuion the funny thing is, is that she has lived in VA her whole life so I have no idea how they made that big of a mistake. They finally corrected the mistake but she had to jump through alot of hoops to get it done and GMU wasn't very apologetic about it all and wouldn't even admit they made a mistake.

 

I only had to take 30 credits to get the extra degree so it made sense for me to do this vs the certificate. Like I said, I have the credits for the CPA exam and licensing, but I don't want to leave the degree out there over 2 credits

[Corcaigh]

Not always entirely true. I was reflecting a few weeks ago that some of the most valuable classes I took as an undergrad were "BS" classes. I was introduced to and gained a real appreciation for jazz and a love for blues which I had previously only thought of as "old crap". I learned techniques for managing stress and spent time with elderly people and learned about aging issues. I also took a course on death and dying which turned out to be perhaps one of the most valuable courses I took during my time in College Park. All told those courses totaled only 12 credits toward my degree but they provided me with immense value. I'm a big believer that college should not only be an academic exercise but a preparation for life. If managed properly those "BS" courses can do just that.

 

 

You are talking about two different kinds of things here.  Corcaigh is talking about education as vocational training, you are talking about education as personal development.  He is focused on the instrumental value of education, you more on the intrinsic value of it.  Engineering is a far more useful field than painting or philosophy, to be sure, but how drab would the world be without art?  Or, for the matter, how hard would life be without engineers?  

 

There are vocational-technical schools on one hand, and there are Universities on the other. They are not the same thing.

 

A University is a place that purports to seek and preserve knowledge of the universe, that is, knowledge of all things.  University's are places for the study of everything, even seemingly useless things like fine arts and sports.  Vo-tech schools are geared toward seemingly more useful things like career training.

 

So to me the real question is:  Do you want your society to have only vo-tech schools, or only Universities, or would it be better if we had both?

 

I'm talking about academic rigor. The Gen Ed class requirements that are forced on American undergraduates are usually a joke and appeal to a lowest common denominator. In contrast, a robust engineering program, for example, integrates other disciplines. Speaking personally, in my university we were also expected to play leading roles in clubs of the university. The attendance at evening lectures from visiting philosophers and authors, for example, was often higher from the engineering students than the liberal arts schools. In the animated discussions in the college bar (another concept sadly lacking here  ) following a lecture it was often apparent that the engineering students were simply better read. 

[mrcunning15]

"I only had to take 30 credits to get the extra degree so it made sense for me to do this vs the certificate. Like I said, I have the credits for the CPA exam and licensing, but I don't want to leave the degree out there over 2 credits"

 

 Hopefully it will work out I'm actually surprise that GMU is somewhat working with you to solve this problem but there is probably something stated in their policies if this happens you're just SOL.

[Skinz4Life12]

quick update: We just found out that the legal team and the NPS came to an agreement and the course is back on schedule. Thank God. I am really surpised they got this done.

 

It kind of pisses me off that GMU claims they had no fault in this situation and for the delay. It seems to me that since they were able to get a deal done this shoudl have all been taken care of before the class was ever started. Regardless, its a moot point.

 

I'd like to think all my complaining to the instructors and deans had something to do with them pushing this through but who knows. They claimed this solution came together "in record time". It was actually a whole week lol

 

Thanks for all the advice in this thread

[Major Harris]

[

I'm talking about academic rigor. The Gen Ed class requirements that are forced on American undergraduates are usually a joke and appeal to a lowest common denominator. In contrast, a robust engineering program, for example, integrates other disciplines. Speaking personally, in my university we were also expected to play leading roles in clubs of the university. The attendance at evening lectures from visiting philosophers and authors, for example, was often higher from the engineering students than the liberal arts schools. In the animated discussions in the college bar (another concept sadly lacking here ) following a lecture it was often apparent that the engineering students were simply better read.

If we go on anecdotal evidence, I have a few stories about engineering majors....but such is life. Academic rigor is good, but there is way more to both a college experience and an individuals make up then how tough his course load was in college and how smart he can sound at the bar or on es.

Oh come on!  We all have to take a bullcrap class here and there in college to have a little relief from a crazy schedule sometimes

 

That's what alcohol, drugs and sex are for. Not extra pointless classes.

 

So much for academic rigor. Have fun pursuing such interests in clubs where you aren't paying thousands of dollars to attend a stupid ****ing class.

 

Why not just spend the money on alcohol or a bribe for a university official. 

I think the issue here is that you judge people based on this..,.this is a flaw in the system. But keep judging, it's almost cute.

[Corcaigh]

[

I'm talking about academic rigor. The Gen Ed class requirements that are forced on American undergraduates are usually a joke and appeal to a lowest common denominator. In contrast, a robust engineering program, for example, integrates other disciplines. Speaking personally, in my university we were also expected to play leading roles in clubs of the university. The attendance at evening lectures from visiting philosophers and authors, for example, was often higher from the engineering students than the liberal arts schools. In the animated discussions in the college bar (another concept sadly lacking here ) following a lecture it was often apparent that the engineering students were simply better read.

If we go on anecdotal evidence, I have a few stories about engineering majors....but such is life. Academic rigor is good, but there is way more to both a college experience and an individuals make up then how tough his course load was in college and how smart he can sound at the bar or on es.

> 

Oh come on!  We all have to take a bullcrap class here and there in college to have a little relief from a crazy schedule sometimes

 

That's what alcohol, drugs and sex are for. Not extra pointless classes.

 

So much for academic rigor. Have fun pursuing such interests in clubs where you aren't paying thousands of dollars to attend a stupid ****ing class.

 

Why not just spend the money on alcohol or a bribe for a university official. 

I think the issue here is that you judge people based on this..,.this is a flaw in the system. But keep judging, it's almost cute.

 

 

I'm a judgmental asshole. It is what it is.

[Major Harris]

Lol fair enough. I'd venture to guess you've hired a few mindless boring drones because they didn't take bowling, but whatever.

[Corcaigh]

Lol fair enough. I'd venture to guess you've hired a few mindless boring drones because they didn't take bowling, but whatever.

 

Bowling, Christians and fat chicks.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Dude, just suck it up, pay the extra $400 and take the 3 credit class you can take to graduate when you want to so it doesn't interfere with your set plans.  I'd be ticked off too, but at the end of the day it's not worth losing sleep or fighting with the university because they are not going to waive the cost of the extra credit hour.  

 

Universities do not care if they inconvenience you or not.  They basically take your money and do what they want, within reason.  Class got cancelled, you have to take another one, so either pay for a 3 credit hour class or change your future plans.  

 

I hate that happened to you,  because I had two run-ins with my alma mater when I was in college.  First bad experience was my GPA dropped below 2.0 for one semester because I went to community college, transferred in 2 years worth of classes, so I had all core engineering classes with very few general classes to help boost my GPA.  I literally had something like 1.95, never got a probation letter, went to the deans office, they looked me up and said I was not listed for academic probation and said probably because it rounded up to 2.0.

 

Next semester, I had another rough time, I made three C's and failed one class.  So my GPA was below a 2.0, well back in the day we had exclusions we could use to eliminate a class counting towards your GPA.  I planned to use it on the one class, well because it was the holidays, I had to wait until the school opened back up for the winter semester.  I get a letter telling me that due to two consecutive semesters of my GPA falling below 2.0, I was now kicked out of the college of engineering and needed to find another major.  So, I wasnt placed on probation, but actually was and they didnt tell me.  I got everything fixed and only missed two days of classes cause I had to request an appeal and they had to have a hearing to rule if I could get back into the program again.  

 

My last full semester, I was in senior design II.  We had a group project that spanned over two semesters.  Me and my partner told the professor and all our colleagues that we were staying on campus for the entire Christmas holiday and planned on doing our part of the project during that time and that we needed all the welding supplies, etc.  They dropped the ball, never got them for us.  Professor never came to the shop the entire first semester, gave everyone an A for the class, even though only 4 of us (out of 10 people) showed up and did actual work on the project.

 

The next semester, I was working 40 hours a week, planning a wedding, etc.  They kept scheduling meetings with no advanced noticed and it would interfere with work.  I kept telling them that I needed a weeks notice so I can have work reschedule me.  They would call me at 9pm on a Friday night and ask I show up to help Sat morning at 7am, when I would be scheduled for work.  Anyhow, one week before finals, I get an email from my professor stating that people complained that I wasn't helping on the project and he might have to fail me.  I went the hell off on him and the entire class.  I told him nobody did **** the entire first semester and he gave them all A's because he was incompetent and didnt monitor his class.

 

Long story short, they told me if i put together the presentation, I'd get a C at minimum.  I spent from 6am to 4am the next morning in the computer lab putting it together.  Got married, got back from the honeymoon, called in to check my grades and the asshole gave me a D.  Then I get a phone call from my buddy saying that they still need help on the project (the other group).  I told him to tell them to go **** themselves.

[Skinz4Life12]

^^^No offense but your situations are nothing like the situation in my OP. Regardless my issue got resolved so none of this matters anymore

[Special K]

 

 

 

 

> 

Oh come on!  We all have to take a bullcrap class here and there in college to have a little relief from a crazy schedule sometimes

 

That's what alcohol, drugs and sex are for. Not extra pointless classes.

 

So much for academic rigor. Have fun pursuing such interests in clubs where you aren't paying thousands of dollars to attend a stupid ****ing class.

 

Why not just spend the money on alcohol or a bribe for a university official. 

Who says I didn't do this for every single chemistry course in my degree?!? 

 

Fact is, college is different from when old geezers like you attended.     

 

Universities have added "gimme" classes like this primarily for extra $ (IMO) and FORCE us to take them by making it a requirement in our curriculum.  I took Tennis I and II even though I competed in USTA leagues outside of college because they were literally the only classes that fit into my rigid science schedule.  Not going to say I was disappointed that those were the only classes left those semesters, but don't get upset because our universities have added these types of classes since you went through...you judgmental bastage!  

 

And just for the record, I was forced into an idiotic Women's Studies class for one of my electives and didn't learn one damn thing except that my professor was a raging feminist lunatic who hated every word that came out of my mouth.  I would have learned more in rock climbing, seriously.  And had a hell of a lot more fun

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

^^^No offense but your situations are nothing like the situation in my OP. Regardless my issue got resolved so none of this matters anymore

 

Not the same, but I had bad experiences in college.  The point I was trying to make was they dont give a **** about you, only your money.  If colleges really gave a **** about your education, they wouldn't make you take bull**** classes like Rock Climbing to satisfy general credits towards a degree.  PERIOD.  

 

I went to school for engineering, there is absolutely no reason I should have had to take music appreciation, sociology, business law, 2 semesters of world history, 3 semesters of more English classes, 2 semesters of foreign language, etc.  Well rounded?  All those classes did was make me have to spend more money on **** I didnt need.  Eliminate all the bull**** classes, make the students co-op to get on the job training.  Finish in 4 years with 2 years of classwork and 2 years OTJT so they are experienced when they finish.  

 

If you look at most degrees for any program, its roughly 2 - 2 1/2 years of core classes in your major that actually teach your future trade.  

[s0crates]

 

Not always entirely true. I was reflecting a few weeks ago that some of the most valuable classes I took as an undergrad were "BS" classes. I was introduced to and gained a real appreciation for jazz and a love for blues which I had previously only thought of as "old crap". I learned techniques for managing stress and spent time with elderly people and learned about aging issues. I also took a course on death and dying which turned out to be perhaps one of the most valuable courses I took during my time in College Park. All told those courses totaled only 12 credits toward my degree but they provided me with immense value. I'm a big believer that college should not only be an academic exercise but a preparation for life. If managed properly those "BS" courses can do just that.

 

 

You are talking about two different kinds of things here.  Corcaigh is talking about education as vocational training, you are talking about education as personal development.  He is focused on the instrumental value of education, you more on the intrinsic value of it.  Engineering is a far more useful field than painting or philosophy, to be sure, but how drab would the world be without art?  Or, for the matter, how hard would life be without engineers?  

 

There are vocational-technical schools on one hand, and there are Universities on the other. They are not the same thing.

 

A University is a place that purports to seek and preserve knowledge of the universe, that is, knowledge of all things.  University's are places for the study of everything, even seemingly useless things like fine arts and sports.  Vo-tech schools are geared toward seemingly more useful things like career training.

 

So to me the real question is:  Do you want your society to have only vo-tech schools, or only Universities, or would it be better if we had both?

 

I'm talking about academic rigor. The Gen Ed class requirements that are forced on American undergraduates are usually a joke and appeal to a lowest common denominator. In contrast, a robust engineering program, for example, integrates other disciplines. Speaking personally, in my university we were also expected to play leading roles in clubs of the university. The attendance at evening lectures from visiting philosophers and authors, for example, was often higher from the engineering students than the liberal arts schools. In the animated discussions in the college bar (another concept sadly lacking here  ) following a lecture it was often apparent that the engineering students were simply better read. 

 

I don't doubt the veracity of your story, and I don't disagree that academic rigor is an issue.   I'm just pointing out that there is a genuine dichotomy between University education and vocational training.  In these debates, it seems people favor one or the other, but I always thought there should be a place in society for both.