The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Troy Fakeman]

Although I disagree with most of what the Grantland article represents...it highlights one thing that I've talked about before and one thing we will never be able to escape.

 

If or when we make a Superbowl...the entire period leading up to the Superbowl will be clouded with controversy surrounding the name.

 

As fans...it will just flat out be miserable to try and 'enjoy' any coverage / discussion / analysis because every uneducated person claiming the name "redskin" is racist will do their part in misleading the public.  Seriously I have to ask...is that something you want?  They are who they are - their tactics have resulted to shame.  Even UnWise Mike predicted this some time ago...saying that once the battle lines have been drawn every liberal person will do what they can to shame the Redskins into changing their name.  It is their playbook on this cause. 

 

This is how it goes -

 

"The name is racist"

 

"No its not - look at polls, Ives Goodard, quotes from Native Americans, Dietz, Red Mesa high school, Oklahoma, Paleface River in Minnesota blah blah blah blah blah"

 

"Its racist.  Those people are just Uncle Toms afraid to speak up about what is right"

 

Bang knows how I feel about this issue - I don't want the name changed, and I don't think Dan has to change the name.  The facts support our side...but who wants to constantly deal with these dbags on PTI, Around the Horn, ESPN, WaPo, or ANY other media that discusses Sports.  Nobody wants to take our side because then THEY can be branded as a racist - its a dirty tactic but it is what it is and they will continue to play that until they win. 

 

I will say this - nothing would please me more for Dan to rename the team to something to honor the MILITARY....pisssing off the very same people who are calling for a name change.  What would they do then?  Cry about a team that honors the US Military? 

 

The team does a lot w/ the local armed forces...and I happen to think the same fans who do not want the name to be changed would support a new identity relative to the US armed forces.

 

I'll back Dan on this all day.  I'll also wear my Sean Taylor jersey to the ends of time...and I'll also always be a Redskin. 

[pjfootballer]

Then don't watch their shows, don't read their articles and don't feed into their mob mentality.  Stand you ground. No one has ever said the name is racist to me, but if they do, I'll be like, "so what.  you deal with it.  I like my team's name."  WTF do I care about what total strangers think about me?  That's a big problem in this country and that's why we have so many damn nosy people that don't mind their own damn business and won't keep their idiotic opinions to themselves.  Everyone seems to have something to say nowadays and 95% of it is garbage.

 

As far as a military name goes...no.  We "honor" our military plenty and that would just be too much, but that's a subject that has already been talked about in another thread about a week ago. 

[Troy Fakeman]

Then don't watch their shows, don't read their articles and don't feed into their mob mentality. 

 

PJ...

 

Name one media outlet taking our side or NOT discussing how racist the name is?  Personally...I'm not going to black out the very same media outlets that have been a part of my life for 20 years.  It's frustrating as a fan...to see everyone....EVERYONE...on this uneducated ban wagon.  Dan's recent attempt to hire a focus group is already getting the same negative press as the team name itself. 

 

Honoring the military with a team name would be too much?  I disagree.  Too much to who?  Liberals?  The anti-war party?  Perhaps. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

[Troy Fakeman]

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

 

Agreed, and agreed.  How the Redskins can allow UnWise Mike on their campus...in a Native American tee-shirt nonetheless...and somehow allow him to end up standing next to Robert on camera...without a tape recorder to show that he is actually doing work...just to stir up controversy...is mind boggling. 

 

And truthfully...as fans we aren't helping ourselves by stating incorrect facts on the matter.  Your opinion about being relevant is the source for all of this, for example, is false.  The same people have been campaigning agains this name for 30 years.  Its just w/ social media / the internet / constant NFL coverage now has it in your face 24 / 7.

 

Like I said - its never going away...its going to get worse...and when we actually get to the promise land its ALL they will talk about...all day....every day...in every format...on every network...by every pundit, etc...

 

But pjfootballer thinks we should just "ignore" all that. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

UnWise Mike used to be on that Ivan Carter show on CSN in 2009 (Zorn, JC) gleefully ****ting on the team for sucking. Never mentioning the name or anything. Now since we are relevant, he's on this bandwagon.

 

**** him

[Guest Spearfeather]

-

its a dirty tactic but it is what it is and they will continue to play that until they win. 

 

 

" Until " could be a long, long time.

 

I posted this in one of the other threads, but I think it speaks to the " bottom line " of the argument.

 

 

From UniWatch.com

 

I was recently contacted by a representative of attorney James McCarthy,
who’s a partner at the intellectual property law firm McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert
& Berghoff. McCarthy was described to me as “a sports-loving lawyer” who had
previously written about sports branding, and who could therefore
help sort out some of the issues regarding the current trademark litigation
involving the Redskins’ team name.

 

 

 

UW: I’m told that you believe that even if the Redskins lose their
trademark protection, it will not impact them financially. Why not?

 

JM: Even if the REDSKINS trademark registrations are cancelled, they
still have very valuable, nationwide common law rights based on the extensive
and continuous use of the mark. These rights are exclusive and enforceable.

 

In addition to the basic trademark rights, the team has a First Amendment
right to “commercial speech” that probably protects its ability to use the term
REDSKINS, even if the trademark registration is lost.

 

 

UW: Gut feeling: Taking everything into account (legal issues, public
opinion, political pressure, etc.), will the Redskins still be called the
Redskins 15 years from now?

 

JM: The brand is so valuable, and First Amendment rights are so valued
in the United States, that the Redskins will probably be named the Redskins for
as long as the team’s owners want to keep the name. It is doubtful that they
will be forced to change it. However, political pressure, the reaction of the
fan base and consumers, or a change of ownership could result in a voluntary
decision to change the name. ( Snyder, as we all know, has said, this will not happen )

 

 

UW: Okay, so you’re basically saying anything is possible — but we all
knew that already. I’m asking you what you think will happen.

 

JM: Fifteen years is a long time. Certainly opinions can change — it
was only about 15 years ago that President Clinton signed the Defense of
Marriage Act that was just challenged in the Supreme Court. Based on the state
of the laws today, however, I would guess that the Redskins will still be the
Redskins 15 years from now, especially since it has been over 20 years since the
trademark was originally challenged.

 

 

 

+

 

 

 

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

 

Agreed, and agreed.  How the Redskins can allow UnWise Mike on their campus...in a Native American tee-shirt nonetheless...and somehow allow him to end up standing next to Robert on camera...without a tape recorder to show that he is actually doing work...just to stir up controversy...is mind boggling. 

 

And truthfully...as fans we aren't helping ourselves by stating incorrect facts on the matter.  Your opinion about being relevant is the source for all of this, for example, is false.  The same people have been campaigning agains this name for 30 years.  Its just w/ social media / the internet / constant NFL coverage now has it in your face 24 / 7.

 

Like I said - its never going away...its going to get worse...and when we actually get to the promise land its ALL they will talk about...all day....every day...in every format...on every network...by every pundit, etc...

 

But pjfootballer thinks we should just "ignore" all that. 

dude...no ESPN talking head, politician or local report gave a half a damn until last year. Literally zero mention of anything like that.

 

Maybe the actual racial groups but that's it. 

[Troy Fakeman]

UnWise Mike used to be on that Ivan Carter show on CSN in 2009 (Zorn, JC) gleefully ****ting on the team for sucking. Never mentioning the name or anything. Now since we are relevant, he's on this bandwagon.

 

**** him

 

 

Or how about when he was on the show with George Michael?  Redskin Report?  You never saw him complaining about it then, either...

[Troy Fakeman]

 

 

"dude...no ESPN talking head, politician or local report gave a half a damn until last year. Literally zero mention of anything like that.

Maybe the actual racial groups but that's it. "

 

 

Precisely.  It's only going to get worse.  As fans...we'll be in a constant state of "defense" moving forward.  Yay.  Fun. 

[Bang]

Maybe the actual racial groups but that's it. 

 

 

 

 

Picking here...    it's not any groups. it's a tiny little group of FIVE people.

They have the support of another very tiny group of supposed Native leaders... (i say supposedly because they are constantly contradicted when the people they supposedly lead are asked their opinion on this topic...  which makes me wonder how the hell they came t be 'leaders' in the first place. Titles of convenience.)

And now their tiny little itty bitty cause has been picked up by ignorant self righteous asswipes like UnWise Mike, and apparently now Woody Page and his stupid cronies on a show designed for them to 'argue' for brownie points have all said the familiar refrain ("I don't want to be the one who stands up for truth. I have not the balls to do so." )

 

yak yak yak yak yak.

 

All this talk, saying nothing of any substance. furthering the cause of ignorance under the guise of 'informing' anyone.

 

Nevermind the extreme minority who feels their incorrect opinion should bend everyone else, that's nothing new. human history is filled with such assholes.

 

but these journalists ought to be ashamed of themselves... especially those old enough to remember the world before the Internet allowed every outraged moron under the sun a voice, me included.

For shame.

 

~Bang

[Boss_Hogg]

UnWise Mike is getting pissy on Twitter. Apparently some school in Podunk, Idaho changed their name and Wise is all over it.

[Bang]

Unfollow his dumb ass.

 

I can send you transcripts of my morning **** if you really need to hear crap.

 

~Bang

[Boss_Hogg]

I don't follow Wise, I just like to troll him. 

 

Dude is very sensitive and easy to piss off.

[pjfootballer]

Then don't watch their shows, don't read their articles and don't feed into their mob mentality. 

 

PJ...

 

Name one media outlet taking our side or NOT discussing how racist the name is?  Personally...I'm not going to black out the very same media outlets that have been a part of my life for 20 years.  It's frustrating as a fan...to see everyone....EVERYONE...on this uneducated ban wagon.  Dan's recent attempt to hire a focus group is already getting the same negative press as the team name itself. 

 

Honoring the military with a team name would be too much?  I disagree.  Too much to who?  Liberals?  The anti-war party?  Perhaps. 

It's not on 24 hours a day.  30 minute shows like PTI?  They do it to get people to watch.  Those kinds of shows are irrelevant and meaningless. I can skip over them or change the channel.  Real simple.

 

So what do you want the team to be called, the Washington Army or Washington Navy or Washington Air Force?  Aren't there already college teams named after the 4 branches.  Overkill with the honoring military thing.  But like I said, that's for another thread that was already discussed.

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

 

Agreed, and agreed.  How the Redskins can allow UnWise Mike on their campus...in a Native American tee-shirt nonetheless...and somehow allow him to end up standing next to Robert on camera...without a tape recorder to show that he is actually doing work...just to stir up controversy...is mind boggling. 

 

And truthfully...as fans we aren't helping ourselves by stating incorrect facts on the matter.  Your opinion about being relevant is the source for all of this, for example, is false.  The same people have been campaigning agains this name for 30 years.  Its just w/ social media / the internet / constant NFL coverage now has it in your face 24 / 7.

 

Like I said - its never going away...its going to get worse...and when we actually get to the promise land its ALL they will talk about...all day....every day...in every format...on every network...by every pundit, etc...

 

But pjfootballer thinks we should just "ignore" all that. 

I never said ignore.  I said, you should just not watch.  I mean, you can watch, you can DVR it and skip it or you can change the channel.  Sure it's going to get worse.  Dan and Goodell have already dug their heels in.  We'll deal with it when the time comes. Don't be such a worry wart about it.  Are you getting harrassed on the streets?  Are people bothering you about it?  Like I said, quite frankly, I've never had 1 person say anthing about it.  I've been a fan for about 37 years and no one has come up to my face and said. "you team name is racist."  I have a front plate with Redskins on my truck, a back plate frame and a sunshade in my front window right now that says REDSKINS all the way across the windsheild.  I just don't worry like you do.

[Troy Fakeman]

 

Then don't watch their shows, don't read their articles and don't feed into their mob mentality. 

 

PJ...

 

Name one media outlet taking our side or NOT discussing how racist the name is?  Personally...I'm not going to black out the very same media outlets that have been a part of my life for 20 years.  It's frustrating as a fan...to see everyone....EVERYONE...on this uneducated ban wagon.  Dan's recent attempt to hire a focus group is already getting the same negative press as the team name itself. 

 

Honoring the military with a team name would be too much?  I disagree.  Too much to who?  Liberals?  The anti-war party?  Perhaps. 

It's not on 24 hours a day.  30 minute shows like PTI?  They do it to get people to watch.  Those kinds of shows are irrelevant and meaningless. I can skip over them or change the channel.  Real simple.

 

So what do you want the team to be called, the Washington Army or Washington Navy or Washington Air Force?  Aren't there already college teams named after the 4 branches.  Overkill with the honoring military thing.  But like I said, that's for another thread that was already discussed.

> 

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

 

Agreed, and agreed.  How the Redskins can allow UnWise Mike on their campus...in a Native American tee-shirt nonetheless...and somehow allow him to end up standing next to Robert on camera...without a tape recorder to show that he is actually doing work...just to stir up controversy...is mind boggling. 

 

And truthfully...as fans we aren't helping ourselves by stating incorrect facts on the matter.  Your opinion about being relevant is the source for all of this, for example, is false.  The same people have been campaigning agains this name for 30 years.  Its just w/ social media / the internet / constant NFL coverage now has it in your face 24 / 7.

 

Like I said - its never going away...its going to get worse...and when we actually get to the promise land its ALL they will talk about...all day....every day...in every format...on every network...by every pundit, etc...

 

But pjfootballer thinks we should just "ignore" all that. 

I never said ignore.  I said, you should just not watch.  I mean, you can watch, you can DVR it and skip it or you can change the channel.  Sure it's going to get worse.  Dan and Goodell have already dug their heels in.  We'll deal with it when the time comes. Don't be such a worry wart about it.  Are you getting harrassed on the streets?  Are people bothering you about it?  Like I said, quite frankly, I've never had 1 person say anthing about it.  I've been a fan for about 37 years and no one has come up to my face and said. "you team name is racist."  I have a front plate with Redskins on my truck, a back plate frame and a sunshade in my front window right now that says REDSKINS all the way across the windsheild.  I just don't worry like you do.

 

 

 

PJ - hit me with that link bro.  The search feature can't find it for me - love to dig into that thread.  thx. 

[Hersh]

I just don't see how any true blue Redskins fan could give up the fight to keep the name.  I mean, I'm not calling anyone's fanhood into question, but I just don't see how some can just cave in to this.  pennant and various nicknacks).

 

Because it's just a name of a sports team. Of all the things worth fighting for in life, this is basically the bottom of the list for me and I ultimately don't care one bit about the name of the teams I follow including my alma mater. I care about how the do on the field, diamond, ice, etc. When it comes to sports, I'll trade all their names for championships.

 

Is there really a single Redskins fan that wouldn't celebrate just as much if they changed their name to the Washington Whatevers and won the superbowl the next two years? Championships>>>>>Any teams name.

[dolver]

I just don't see how any true blue Redskins fan could give up the fight to keep the name.  I mean, I'm not calling anyone's fanhood into question, but I just don't see how some can just cave in to this.  pennant and various nicknacks).

 

Because it's just a name of a sports team. Of all the things worth fighting for in life, this is basically the bottom of the list for me and I ultimately don't care one bit about the name of the teams I follow including my alma mater. I care about how the do on the field, diamond, ice, etc. When it comes to sports, I'll trade all their names for championships.

 

Is there really a single Redskins fan that wouldn't celebrate just as much if they changed their name to the Washington Whatevers and won the superbowl the next two years? Championships>>>>>Any teams name.

 

Agreed with Hersh here - I am so confused over the absolute RABID fight in the fans on this board who want to keep the name. Because anything besides Redskins "wouldn't sound right"? Really? As Hersh says, a name change is at the bottom of the list and honestly, I don't see how true blue fans could lose any amount of support for the team just due to a name change.

 

Also, I hate all this talk about "the facts are on our side" - first of all, this certainly isn't about facts - and second of all, of course "facts" for both sides can be shifted and misconstrued. This shouldn't be about some quote from some Native American leader. This should be about the spirit of inclusion and not being hurtful. Does a name matter so much that you will stand behind it, even if it means being kind of a jerk?

[isle-hawg]

Anything other than REDSKIN will sound awful and wrong.

 

It's a shame that being a relevant team led to this.

 

And I cannot express in words how much I absolutely cannot stand neither UnWise Mike or Mike Wilbon.

Me too, and Wilbon so high and mighty about how awful our beloved team's name is has no problem with the Blackhawks or their logo. I used to like PTI and to a very much lesser extent ATH, but this BS talk makes these shows unwatchable to me.

[Larry]

Just speaking for myself. 

 

But I'm not worried in the least about the terrifying thought that the Redskins might go to the Super Bowl, and ignorant people might say things about them. 

Agreed with Hersh here - I am so confused over the absolute RABID fight in the fans on this board who want to keep the name. Because anything besides Redskins "wouldn't sound right"? Really? As Hersh says, a name change is at the bottom of the list and honestly, I don't see how true blue fans could lose any amount of support for the team just due to a name change.
 
Also, I hate all this talk about "the facts are on our side" - first of all, this certainly isn't about facts - and second of all, of course "facts" for both sides can be shifted and misconstrued. This shouldn't be about some quote from some Native American leader. This should be about the spirit of inclusion and not being hurtful. Does a name matter so much that you will stand behind it, even if it means being kind of a jerk?

Really admiring the way that the ridiculously tiny minority of liars who want the world to revolve around them, and anybody who doesn't cater to them is RABID and jerks.

"How dare you people point out facts to me! Don't you know that this isn't about facts, it's about being inclusive of people who don't have any!"

[Troy Fakeman]

 

I just don't see how any true blue Redskins fan could give up the fight to keep the name.  I mean, I'm not calling anyone's fanhood into question, but I just don't see how some can just cave in to this.  pennant and various nicknacks).

 

Because it's just a name of a sports team. Of all the things worth fighting for in life, this is basically the bottom of the list for me and I ultimately don't care one bit about the name of the teams I follow including my alma mater. I care about how the do on the field, diamond, ice, etc. When it comes to sports, I'll trade all their names for championships.

 

Is there really a single Redskins fan that wouldn't celebrate just as much if they changed their name to the Washington Whatevers and won the superbowl the next two years? Championships>>>>>Any teams name.

 

Agreed with Hersh here - I am so confused over the absolute RABID fight in the fans on this board who want to keep the name. Because anything besides Redskins "wouldn't sound right"? Really? As Hersh says, a name change is at the bottom of the list and honestly, I don't see how true blue fans could lose any amount of support for the team just due to a name change.

 

Also, I hate all this talk about "the facts are on our side" - first of all, this certainly isn't about facts - and second of all, of course "facts" for both sides can be shifted and misconstrued. This shouldn't be about some quote from some Native American leader. This should be about the spirit of inclusion and not being hurtful. Does a name matter so much that you will stand behind it, even if it means being kind of a jerk?

 

Good for you and your 30th post on a Redskins Forum...where you so eliqouently refute the facts in defense of the Redskins name. 

[Troy Fakeman]

Just speaking for myself. 

 

But I'm not worried in the least about the terrifying thought that the Redskins might go to the Super Bowl, and ignorant people might say things about them. 

Agreed with Hersh here - I am so confused over the absolute RABID fight in the fans on this board who want to keep the name. Because anything besides Redskins "wouldn't sound right"? Really? As Hersh says, a name change is at the bottom of the list and honestly, I don't see how true blue fans could lose any amount of support for the team just due to a name change.

 

Also, I hate all this talk about "the facts are on our side" - first of all, this certainly isn't about facts - and second of all, of course "facts" for both sides can be shifted and misconstrued. This shouldn't be about some quote from some Native American leader. This should be about the spirit of inclusion and not being hurtful. Does a name matter so much that you will stand behind it, even if it means being kind of a jerk?

Really admiring the way that the ridiculously tiny minority of liars who want the world to revolve around them, and anybody who doesn't cater to them is RABID and jerks.

"How dare you people point out facts to me! Don't you know that this isn't about facts, it's about being inclusive of people who don't have any!"

 

 

Nobody is "worried" about the ignorant people during a Super Bowl run...more like just highlighting the fact that it's going flat out SUCK.  Personally, I'd rather deal without the distraction.  Our players will have to address questions in the press...there will be protestors...footage of protestors on every sports network / website...every uneducated pundit for every network will constantly ignore the facts and shoot from the hip, claiming the know something about the word 'redskin'... 

 

I'd rather have our glory not clouded by this controversy.  Who wants to watch your team in the spotlight having to constantly address the team moniker?  It's a pain in the ass.  No other team in the NFL has to deal with this...and its just going to keep piling on.  Its already reached a point where people are asking to have the name changed for the sole purpose of just pissing us off. 

[Guest Spearfeather]

Really admiring the way that the ridiculously tiny minority of liars who want the world to revolve around them, and anybody who doesn't cater to them is RABID and jerks.

"How dare you people point out facts to me! Don't you know that this isn't about facts, it's about being inclusive of people who don't have any!"

 

This is exactly what I think Goodell was speaking to when he stated this in his letter::

 

The National Football League takes seriously its responsibility to exemplify the values of diversity and inclusion that make our country great."

[Bang]

I'm with Larry.

I'm just tired of the ignorant dictating their ignorance to everyone else.

If that makes this a line in the sand, OK.

 

~Bang

[Fan since a Fetus]

I second Larry's posting.  I am confused by the 'rabid' Redskins 'fans' that want the name changed.  Why do they care so much if it is at the 'bottom of the list'?

 

Just because times get hard and people make things slightly annoying to you, doesn't mean you give in.  I am not going to give in because the wannabe sports network, the black dude on that show on the wannabe sports network, or the white dude who writes in the capital's paper, or the 35 other white dudes don't like it and will keep screaming until they get there way.

 

Maybe I am stubborn, but if someone near me is throwing a hissy fit and trying to get their way, the last thing I do is cave in.