Cam Newton reportedly targeted at Pro Bowl last year

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

No, they are still a bad football team they just have a really good QB who is playing like it. I don't care about what people on talk radio say, and their whole purpose is to troll to get callers and viewers.

And if the Panthers fans want to keep Rivera, then they deserve all the loses they get.

[pjfootballer]

Comparing Newton to Brady is as stupid as it gets.

Brady- 5 SBs, 3 wins, multiple All-Pros

Cam- "crickets"

As far as the Panthers go, Bubble Screen is right. They do have some talent on the team. The problem was that the team thought they could waltz to a 12-4 record after being 6-10. Kalil put out a full page ad in the paper during training camp, saying they would win the Super Bowl. They believed their own hype before they even played a down. Cam and the team weren't willing to play hard and earn those victories.

Now that they've been eliminated from playoff contention, they're playing better because there is no pressure on them, they have nothing to lose and they've played some winnable games against Philly, KC, SD and Atlanta at home. They have Oakland this week at home. Add in that Cam HAS been playing up to his potential the team has played better. Just like us, we've had talent, but we were missing a good QB. Carolina had the QB, they were missing good QB play. Now they have it.

Say they finish 6-10 or 7-9 (5-9 now), I'm just wondering what the outlook will be next June. Meaning, will they believe their own hype again or will they put in the work.

[renaissance]

I wouldn't have so much of a problem with Cam if he didn't go from whiny ***** to smug asshat in the matter of one week.

Superman doesn't cry.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

should I compare Cam to a rookie Peyton Manning who acted like a brat on the sidelines with his "Manning face?"

or Aaron Rogers started doing the Triple H belt dance during the Packers 6-10 season?

or when Santana does his first down dance?

People are very selective towards what they choose to be upset at with certain athletes.

[renaissance]

I'm not sure why you even engage in discussion in threads like these since you always seem to be so above it/don't care about it.

[Bubble Screen]

No, they are still a bad football team they just have a really good QB who is playing like it. I don't care about what people on talk radio say, and their whole purpose is to troll to get callers and viewers.

And if the Panthers fans want to keep Rivera, then they deserve all the loses they get.

Dude, you don't get it. Most people that cover the NFL for a living, were picking Carolina to be a playoff team; at the very least exceed their 6-10 record from last year. Why? Because they supposedly had upgraded their team with the additions of Louis Murphy, Mike Tolbert (still think he sucks?), etc and the drafting of LB Luke Kuechly (gonna be defensive ROY). Plus, most figured that Cam Newton would continue to progress. Plus they were getting back several guys on the defensive side of the ball from injury (Thomas Davis, Beason) etc.

With that said, they've also, as I've already pointed out, been in every game this year but two (Denver, NY Giants). Aside from those two games, they've lost by a TD or less in every other game. And have beaten Atlanta soundly. Should have beaten Chicago. Should have beaten Seattle. Beat us pretty easily.

So how you can still say they "lack talent" is ludicrous. They don't lack talent. There is nothing that backs you up on that. They obviously have the talent. Up until the past 4-5 games, they just haven't 'executed'. The way they're playing now is the way they were expected to play all along.

As for Rivera: it's probably a moot point, what their fans want. They've already fired their GM. So whatever GM they bring in is more than likely gonna can Rivera (fair or not).

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 03:35 AM ----------

Comparing Newton to Brady is as stupid as it gets.

Brady- 5 SBs, 3 wins, multiple All-Pros

Cam- "crickets"

As far as the Panthers go, Bubble Screen is right. They do have some talent on the team. The problem was that the team thought they could waltz to a 12-4 record after being 6-10. Kalil put out a full page ad in the paper during training camp, saying they would win the Super Bowl. They believed their own hype before they even played a down. Cam and the team weren't willing to play hard and earn those victories.

Now that they've been eliminated from playoff contention, they're playing better because there is no pressure on them, they have nothing to lose and they've played some winnable games against Philly, KC, SD and Atlanta at home. They have Oakland this week at home. Add in that Cam HAS been playing up to his potential the team has played better. Just like us, we've had talent, but we were missing a good QB. Carolina had the QB, they were missing good QB play. Now they have it.

Say they finish 6-10 or 7-9 (5-9 now), I'm just wondering what the outlook will be next June. Meaning, will they believe their own hype again or will they put in the work.

I agree with all this, except for the part about them playing well now, because they don't have any pressure. That's partly true. Granted, there isn't any pressure on them, because they are out of the playoffs. However, there is pressure for them to perform, after having witnessed their owner fire one of his closest friends on earth (GM Marty Hurney). Once that happened, the players and coaches then knew that if Jerry Richardson would fire his dearest friend, then ANYONE (ok, anyone but Cam and Kuechly) could be shown the door.

[terrifNick21]

Not to really derail the thread, but Casey Hayward should win the DROY over Luke Kuechly.

[Bubble Screen]

Not to really derail the thread, but Casey Hayward should win the DROY over Luke Kuechly.

Uh, no. Carolina had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year, and he's the main reason they are now decent. Dude is a beast. Before Kuechly arrived, that was Jon Beason's defense. Now when Beason returns, he's no longer gonna be in the middle. That tells you all you need to know...

[terrifNick21]

Uh, no. Carolina had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last year, and he's the main reason they are now decent. Dude is a beast. Before Kuechly arrived, that was Jon Beason's defense. Now when Beason returns, he's no longer gonna be in the middle. That tells you all you need to know...

There's not been a corner in the entire NFL that's been better than Casey Hayward this year.

Hayward has been thrown at 67 times, he's given up 29 catches. That's 43.3%, a very close 2nd to Antonio Cromartie for lowest among corners.

Hayward has 10 passes defensed, 5th among all corners.

Hayward has 6 interceptions, 3rd among all corners.

Hayward has given up 0 TDs.

Hayward's 6 INTs:0 TDs allowed is the best ratio in the entire NFL.

Oh, and QBs have a 23.5 QBR throwing his way. 20 points lower than the 2nd lowest.

I love Luke Kuechly, but to say he's been better than Casey Hayward is nothing short of wrong.

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 02:55 AM ----------

And just for comparisons, Kuechly's been thrown at 46 times, and he's allowed 39 receptions, for 384 yards. Hayward's allowed 364 yards.

[Bubble Screen]

...You lost all credibility when you listed how many times Kuechly's been thrown at. C'mon, man. He's a damn middle linebacker!

Never said Hayward hasn't played great. He has. But, without looking it up, doesn't Green Bay's defense rank worse than Carolina's? If not, Hayward still hasn't helped improve their defense as much as Kuechly has Carolina's. Dude, admit it, the only game you've watched of Carolina's was against us:ols:

Kuechly is a friggin beast. If he doesn't win the award, then they shouldn't bother having it, imo.

Edit: let's take this to PMs if you would like. This thread is about sCam Newton.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

There's not been a corner in the entire NFL that's been better than Casey Hayward this year.

Hayward has been thrown at 67 times, he's given up 29 catches. That's 43.3%, a very close 2nd to Antonio Cromartie for lowest among corners.

Hayward has 10 passes defensed, 5th among all corners.

Hayward has 6 interceptions, 3rd among all corners.

Hayward has given up 0 TDs.

Hayward's 6 INTs:0 TDs allowed is the best ratio in the entire NFL.

Oh, and QBs have a 23.5 QBR throwing his way. 20 points lower than the 2nd lowest.

I love Luke Kuechly, but to say he's been better than Casey Hayward is nothing short of wrong.

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 02:55 AM ----------

And just for comparisons, Kuechly's been thrown at 46 times, and he's allowed 39 receptions, for 384 yards. Hayward's allowed 364 yards.

dawg, you are going to engage someone who takes his views strictly from talk radio. Dont do it to yourself

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 09:13 AM ----------

Dude, you don't get it. Most people that cover the NFL for a living, were picking Carolina to be a playoff team; at the very least exceed their 6-10 record from last year. Why? Because they supposedly had upgraded their team with the additions of Louis Murphy, Mike Tolbert (still think he sucks?), etc and the drafting of LB Luke Kuechly (gonna be defensive ROY). Plus, most figured that Cam Newton would continue to progress. Plus they were getting back several guys on the defensive side of the ball from injury (Thomas Davis, Beason) etc.

With that said, they've also, as I've already pointed out, been in every game this year but two (Denver, NY Giants). Aside from those two games, they've lost by a TD or less in every other game. And have beaten Atlanta soundly. Should have beaten Chicago. Should have beaten Seattle. Beat us pretty easily.

So how you can still say they "lack talent" is ludicrous. They don't lack talent. There is nothing that backs you up on that. They obviously have the talent. Up until the past 4-5 games, they just haven't 'executed'. The way they're playing now is the way they were expected to play all along.

As for Rivera: it's probably a moot point, what their fans want. They've already fired their GM. So whatever GM they bring in is more than likely gonna can Rivera (fair or not).

I dont care what "most people" think, that team was not good enough to make the playoffs. I said that earlier in the season. Those idiots in Charlotte had whipped themselves into a frenzy thinking that they could turn from 2 wins to 6 wins to playoffs in the toughest division in the NFC.

And I asked you before, why should Mike Tolbert be a pro bowler like you claimed someone on a telecast said, and tried to agree with? I didnt say he sucked, I said he isnt no darn special player like you continued to claim.

You over here propping up a guy like Louis Murphy who has NEVER caught 50 catches in a season. I cannot take you serious at all. :ols;

It really seems like you just listen to Charlotte radio and what the media says this summer and carried their opinions on players to here without actually looking into it yourself. I really dont get how sports fans can do that.

[Skinz4Life12]

yea he kind of comes across like an ******* so this doesn't surprise me

[terrifNick21]

...You lost all credibility when you listed how many times Kuechly's been thrown at. C'mon, man. He's a damn middle linebacker!

Never said Hayward hasn't played great. He has. But, without looking it up, doesn't Green Bay's defense rank worse than Carolina's? If not, Hayward still hasn't helped improve their defense as much as Kuechly has Carolina's. Dude, admit it, the only game you've watched of Carolina's was against us:ols:

Kuechly is a friggin beast. If he doesn't win the award, then they shouldn't bother having it, imo.

Edit: let's take this to PMs if you would like. This thread is about sCam Newton.

I've watched every game this year. Every one. I bought NFL Game Rewind, so I know what I'm talking about, and I have the statistics above to back me up.

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 12:30 PM ----------

dawg, you are going to engage someone who takes his views strictly from talk radio. Dont do it to yourself .

I just like proving people wrong when they're clueless.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I've watched every game this year. Every one. I bought NFL Game Rewind, so I know what I'm talking about, and I have the statistics above to back me up.

how is that Game Rewind life? ive sort of fallen out of love with watching most other teams, but me pretending to be a coach is kind of stimulating, lol.

Do you think its a good investment?

I just like proving people wrong when they're clueless.

im the same

[terrifNick21]

how is that Game Rewind life? ive sort of fallen out of love with watching most other teams, but me pretending to be a coach is kind of stimulating, lol.

Do you think its a good investment?

im the same

Yes. I love it. I don't like not knowing what I'm talking about when it comes to players/teams, so having that helps out a lot, especially being able to watch full games in just over 30 minutes.

I think it's a great investment because I love the game.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Yes. I love it. I don't like not knowing what I'm talking about when it comes to players/teams, so having that helps out a lot, especially being able to watch full games in just over 30 minutes.

I think it's a great investment because I love the game.

props

I will look into it for next season.

Im going to get on that and subscribe to PFF's stats.

[Bubble Screen]

I dont care what "most people" think, that team was not good enough to make the playoffs. I said that earlier in the season. Those idiots in Charlotte had whipped themselves into a frenzy thinking that they could turn from 2 wins to 6 wins to playoffs in the toughest division in the NFC.

And I asked you before, why should Mike Tolbert be a pro bowler like you claimed someone on a telecast said, and tried to agree with? I didnt say he sucked, I said he isnt no darn special player like you continued to claim.

You over here propping up a guy like Louis Murphy who has NEVER caught 50 catches in a season. I cannot take you serious at all. :ols;

It really seems like you just listen to Charlotte radio and what the media says this summer and carried their opinions on players to here without actually looking into it yourself. I really dont get how sports fans can do that.

So you're basically saying that you know more than a lot of people that cover the NFL for a living? Gotcha.

And you haven't been paying attention to the NFL lately. It doesn't take several years to turn a team around. Look at the Bengals. They were garbage the year before Green and Dalton got there. Now they're competing for the playoffs every year. The Niners stunk before Harbaugh got there. Last year they nearly made the Super Bowl in his first season..with ALEX SMITH.

The expectations for Carolina were warranted. At least the ones saying they would make the playoffs. To go from 6-10 to the playoffs is not a stretch at all. And I never said Louis Murphy and Mike Tolbert were great players, as you're making it seem. They were quality additions to a team that was on the rise. Carolina has never lacked for talent this year. That's just in your head, man. You would actually fit in well around here, with the rest of the Panther fans. You automatically 'assume' that because they've struggled this year, it had to be because they lacked talent. It couldn't possibly be because Cam Newton had struggled in the first half of the season. I've already went over this with you ad nauseum. But you don't get it. You can't possibly lack talent and dominate the best team in the NFC, and should have beaten them the other time. They also have been in all but two games this year. That's not a sign of a lack of talent. They just weren't playing to expectations. And that includes Cam Newton. These past 4-5 weeks is the team that most people expected Carolina to be.

And give the radio thing a rest, man. I read about the NFL every day. Watch countless shows on the NFL. I don't form my opinions from listening to a sports talk show. But every now and then their two hosts on the drive time show make really good points about the state of Carolina's franchise. I follow the Panthers closely. You've probably watched one of their games this year, yet you think you know what's going on with them. Get real.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 01:43 AM ----------

I've watched every game this year. Every one. I bought NFL Game Rewind, so I know what I'm talking about, and I have the statistics above to back me up.

---------- Post added December-19th-2012 at 12:30 PM ----------

I just like proving people wrong when they're clueless.

You've watched EVERY game this year?

And how am I clueless when just about every talking head out there is saying Kuechly is gonna win the award? You aren't making sense. And you clearly haven't watched many Panther games. Kuechly has had a bigger impact on improving Carolina's defense than Hayward has with Green Bay.

[BigMike21]

Not to derail the thread but I find this interesting. Honestly thought it was a foregone conclusion that Casey Hayward would win the award. I guess per the media it's Luke who will win?

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 01:54 AM ----------

Snarkiness aside.....I find the argument between you two actually compelling, you should start a DROY thread.

[terrifNick21]

And how am I clueless when just about every talking head out there is saying Kuechly is gonna win the award? You aren't making sense. And you clearly haven't watched many Panther games. Kuechly has had a bigger impact on improving Carolina's defense than Hayward has with Green Bay.

Yep. Every single game. Some (all of Washington's) more than once.

It doesn't take but a half hour to watch a full game.

Carolina's defensive success has been MANY thanks to Charles Johnson and Greg Hardy, both of whom have been phenomenal this year.

Luke's got a cumulative negative grade for the season.

But since he's a linebacker, his horrendous pass coverage doesn't matter, huh?

[Bubble Screen]

You're nuts if you think Johnson and Hardy are bigger reasons for Carolina's defense improving than Kuechly. If that's what you're implying, then I'm done with this conversation. Johnson has been inconsistent. He had most of his sacks in the first Atlanta game. Was in their backfield all day. But he hasn't played anywhere close to that level all year. And he'll never live up to that ridiculous contract they gave him.

And Nick: start a defensive ROY thread or something if you wish to continue this. Or better yet, the loser of this argument (you) has to announce it in their sig for a given period of time.

[terrifNick21]

You're nuts if you think Johnson and Hardy are bigger reasons for Carolina's defense improving than Kuechly. If that's what you're implying, then I'm done with this conversation. Johnson has been inconsistent. He had most of his sacks in the first Atlanta game. Was in their backfield all day. But he hasn't played anywhere close to that level all year. And he'll never live up to that ridiculous contract they gave him.

And Nick: start a defensive ROY thread or something if you wish to continue this. Or better yet, the loser of this argument (you) has to announce it in their sig for a given period of time.

It's more than just about sacks, and if you understood football, you'd know that.

I don't want to hear about Johnson "not being consistent." He's had TWO games all year where he was graded negatively vs. the pass. If that's not consistent, I don't know what is.

Don't let Kuechly's number of tackles cloud your judgement, which is clearly what you're doing.

[Bubble Screen]

Nick: when you pay Charles Johnson what the Panthers are paying him, it is about sacks. It's not the only thing, no. Never said it was. But that's the main barometer he's gonna be judged on.

As for Kuechly: it's not just about the tackles (2nd in the NFL). It's the fact that he's the main reason they've went from 28th to 10th in total defense this year. If you believe otherwise, then I don't know what to tell you.

Hayward has been outstanding. But sorry, Green Bay's defense is still middle of the pack (14th). He's not gonna get as much love. Or at least I don't think he should. Plus, I think it helps Kuechly's case even more that the Panthers are playing their best football of the season right now. And they're likely gonna beat Oakland this weekend, too. Considering how bad they started, to where they are now, is pretty impressive. Kuechly is gonna be bringing home the hardware, bro.

[BigMike21]

I will say this about the argument.......Nick has actual empirical evidence to back up his opinion......

[Bubble Screen]

I will say this about the argument.......Nick has actual empirical evidence to back up his opinion......

You want in on the sig bet, too?:pfft:

Oh wait...Nick hasn't taken me up on that yet...

And Nick: left out one other thing. Kuechly was drafted 9th overall. That's also gonna play a role in him winning the award. Not saying that's right or wrong, but it's gonna happen. He's more of a name than Hayward because he led the NCAA in tackles every year he was at BC, if I'm not mistaken.

[BigMike21]

You want in on the sig bet, too?:pfft:

Oh wait...Nick hasn't taken me up on that yet...

Haha that's alright. I haven't looked at it enough to form a real fact based opinion of my own. I just find the debate fascinating.