Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Best ever?Pump the brakes man. I'll stand by this:"Judging by his skillset, he can, on his own, do more to help his team win a game than any QB I've ever seen." Can you think of a QB who was better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'll stand by this:"Judging by his skillset, he can, on his own, do more to help his team win a game than any QB I've ever seen." Can you think of a QB who was better? I don't think that's necessarily ALL that unreasonable, but I'd put a 'potentially' in there. He's still learning, and his game certainly isn't perfected. I'm not enough of a historian of the game (nor am I old enough) to make such a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 To me, this is a no brainer. Luck did have a nice comeback against the Packers. But RGIII has been doing it every game. He looks good. I saw stats where he doesn't throw the ball deep often but with his abilities, he doesn't have too. It is almost like the Skins play small ball in a baseball reference. And he hits a homerun with his legs a lot. RGIII is quite a bit ahead of Luck in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't think that's necessarily ALL that unreasonable, but I'd put a 'potentially' in there.He's still learning, and his game certainly isn't perfected. I'm not enough of a historian of the game (nor am I old enough) to make such a statement. I am old enough to make that statement. I don't need to add a "potentially" in there. His skillset - what he can do with his arm and his legs -- which can be seen right now -- is the best I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am old enough to make that statement. I don't need to add a "potentially" in there. His skillset - what he can do with his arm and his legs -- which can be seen right now -- is the best I've ever seen. Fair enough. I certainly hope he is. ---------- Post added October-18th-2012 at 03:16 PM ---------- ;9216008']To me' date=' this is a no brainer. Luck did have a nice comeback against the Packers. But RGIII has been doing it every game. He looks good. I saw stats where he doesn't throw the ball deep often but with his abilities, he doesn't have too. It is almost like the Skins play small ball in a baseball reference. And he hits a homerun with his legs a lot. RGIII is quite a bit ahead of Luck in my opinion.[/quote']It's crazy, he's had two picks and made a poor decision against ATL that ended in him getting a concussion but I have had a really hard time criticizing him otherwise. He certainly hasn't been perfect but he hardly looks 'bad' and he hardly even looks like a rookie. I'm in awe...but I'm still extremely nervous about him getting hurt. Our luck (or lack thereof), his playing style and his slight frame...I worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ...I'm in awe...but I'm still extremely nervous about him getting hurt.Agreed. Catch 22: the more you use his legs, the more valuable he is as a weapon. But, the more you use his legs, the more exposure to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ;9216008']To me' date=' this is a no brainer. Luck did have a nice comeback against the Packers. But RGIII has been doing it every game. He looks good. I saw stats where he doesn't throw the ball deep often but with his abilities, he doesn't have too. It is almost like the Skins play small ball in a baseball reference. And he hits a homerun with his legs a lot. RGIII is quite a bit ahead of Luck in my opinion.[/quote']Arians isn't doing Luck any favors. The design and playcalling of that offense is terrible for a team with a rookie QB and a non-existent rushing attack. Lot of intermediate and deep routes without a lot of the easy underneath stuff and very little in the way of extra blockers. It's especially bad when you realize that Luck doesn't handle pressure anywhere near as well as Griffin does. When Luck is hurried his decision making deteriorates and he doesn't have the same accuracy Griffin does when he's forced to throw off-balance, which is absolutely huge when moving in the pocket or with pressure in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Agreed. Catch 22: the more you use his legs, the more valuable he is as a weapon. But, the more you use his legs, the more exposure to injury. I personally think he's a talented enough passer that he can be more of a conventional QB and still be great but his running ability and the threat of the scramble/option/designed run obviously help him by creating more space for his WRs. I'm torn, but I lean more towards the safe side. Especially as he ages and his speed declines I expect him to stay in the pocket more. I know the Vick comparisons are lazy but Mike Vick's freakish athletic ability was what made him a #1 pick and now he's staying in the pocket more and more (which was much more successful last year than it is now), due to his declining speed/quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I personally think he's a talented enough passer that he can be more of a conventional QB and still be great but his running ability and the threat of the scramble/option/designed run obviously help him by creating more space for his WRs. I'm torn, but I lean more towards the safe side. Especially as he ages and his speed declines I expect him to stay in the pocket more. I know the Vick comparisons are lazy but Mike Vick's freakish athletic ability was what made him a #1 pick and now he's staying in the pocket more and more (which was much more successful last year than it is now), due to his declining speed/quickness. I'd like to see the Shanahans dump the option. Those inside runs just are not worth the risk. His legs make it risky for DBs to play Man and turn their backs on him even when he isn't running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'd like to see the Shanahans dump the option. Those inside runs just are not worth the risk. His legs make it risky for DBs to play Man and turn their backs on him even when he isn't running. Wouldn't be totally opposed. One thing I forgot about is that he not only doesn't know when to slide (or didn't in the ATL game, and hopefully has learned) but doesn't seem to have totally grasped the speed of the game when it comes to option plays. He's taken some big hits when he could have pitched the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Wouldn't be totally opposed.One thing I forgot about is that he not only doesn't know when to slide (or didn't in the ATL game, and hopefully has learned) but doesn't seem to have totally grasped the speed of the game when it comes to option plays. He's taken some big hits when he could have pitched the ball. Right. Well, Shanny is right when he says that he will get better at protecting himself with experience.I agree that he can still be very productive even if he stays in the pocket more. But, as a defender, I'd rather see him do that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrellsMyHero28 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Right. Well, Shanny is right when he says that he will get better at protecting himself with experience.I agree that he can still be very productive even if he stays in the pocket more. But, as a defender, I'd rather see him do that also. I'm on board with that. I think the O-Line, which has been better than expected but still not great, is also a factor here. Give him a great OL that will give him time in the pocket and maybe the runs will be less and less necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins1973 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Griffin is a way better fit for us. As is luck for the colts. Comparing the two is apples and oranges.That being said Im very happy with our apple thats very polished:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 No. As long as he can stay healthy, he's the best ever. As you know, I have been into this game a long time, though not as long as you. And I tend to be grounded, reasonable, detached when in serious analysis of any matter, and even err on the side of caution with full awareness of bias being an important component of my training in two different careers. But I have just recently given myself clearance to speak in this manner: still with the caveat of it being relatively early, I don't think I have ever seen a rookie, or even any, QB display the overall package of skills at the level they present as RG3. If he continues, and they actually improve as reasonably expected (for example, gathering Peyton-level knowledge of all aspects of the pro game), he will end up being the Jordan/Ali/Gretsky etc. of QBs. He's simply the best embodiment of mental/physical tools and execution, overall, I have ever seen, minus the really deep ball which I can only believe will come. My concern is the team he plays for allowing him full measure of potential in the next few years, and his health for the reasons you, myself, and others note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 ...My concern is the team he plays for allowing him full measure of potential in the next few years, and his health for the reasons you, myself, and others note.I have no doubts about Robert. The tougher question that I ask myself is: Would it be smarter to:a) build an offense for a pocket passer like Tom Brady or... build an offense for an athlete-QB like RG3? If I were planning for a ten-year run, I might go with the pocket passer because of the longevity issue even though the athlete-QB is more of a weapon on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 There was also that the Rodgers guy, the Young guy and the Staubach guy. Others, like Tarkenton may never have won the SB, but they sure did win a few big games and played at a high levels for a long time. I mention those guys because calling RG3 a running QB is the same as calling those guys running QBs. But are those guys black??? No?? I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Smith Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Is Griffin your favorite Redskins player of all time? I know it's only been six games, and there are so many other legends: Sean Taylor, Riggins, Monk, Green, Portis, the list goes on and on... For me, the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have no doubts about Robert. The tougher question that I ask myself is: Would it be smarter to:a) build an offense for a pocket passer like Tom Brady or... build an offense for an athlete-QB like RG3? If I were planning for a ten-year run, I might go with the pocket passer because of the longevity issue even though the athlete-QB is more of a weapon on his own. For me there is middle ground the dichotomy isn't quite as stark. I think/hope this offense plans to become less reliant on Griffin's legs as the main cog and eventually graduates to reliance on Griffin's arm with his legs only as complement, albeit a deadly complement. I'm hoping the next evolution for this offense is away from triple/speed option from tight formations to zone-read 'air-raid' spread offense (Baylor, WV, TCU). With the final destination being an offense similar to the current Packers, Lions, Bills and 2010 Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 It's especially bad when you realize that Luck doesn't handle pressure anywhere near as well as Griffin does. When Luck is hurried his decision making deteriorates and he doesn't have the same accuracy Griffin does when he's forced to throw off-balance, which is absolutely huge when moving in the pocket or with pressure in your face. What you described is a huge part of being a QB in the NFL. So, while Luck is being handicapped, he's shown little in comparison to Griffin but more importantly he doesn't do certain things well enough to compare favorably at this point. RG3 is, RIGHT NOW, a much better player. Funny how Griffin is an offensive MVP right now and took a moribund offense to elite production but Luck can only improve but not transform his team. I think he will one day, but right now, a huge edge has to go to Bobby Digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 For me there is middle ground the dichotomy isn't quite as stark. I think/hope this offense plans to become less reliant on Griffin's legs as the main cog and eventually graduates to reliance on Griffin's arm with his legs only as complement, albeit a deadly complement. I'm hoping the next evolution for this offense is away from triple/speed option from tight formations to zone-read 'air-raid' spread offense (Baylor, WV, TCU). With the final destination being an offense similar to the current Packers, Lions, Bills and 2010 Patriots.I don't have a clear fix on where you would like to see us headed. The QBs of the teams you mentioned don't run much. The common element is the shotgun spread. Am I right?Oops! Never mind. I misread a line. I have a good idea now of what you want to see. I'm not sure how that will play with our lighter, more athletic O-line, though. I'm thinking we need to move the QB more for his protection than those teams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I don't have a clear fix on where you would like to see us headed. The QBs of the teams you mentioned don't run much. The common element is the shotgun spread. Am I right?Oops! Never mind. I misread a line. I have a good idea now of what you want to see. I'm not sure how that will play with our lighter, more athletic O-line, though. I'm thinking we need to move the QB more for his protection than those teams do. I was already in the process of answering..................Less triple option, less zone-read from tight formations more zone read from spread shotgun formations: 2x2, 3x1 and bunch etc, more spread shotgun formation drop back passing- ------> triple option/speed option only as needed to keep defenses honest, zone-read almost exclusively from shotgun spread formations as a complement to and to set-up playaction from spread shotgun formations ----------------->mostly shotgun spread passing, triple option/speed option in rare occasions/crucial downs, RB stretch from spread shotgun in lieu of true zone-read, true zone-read where Griffin is an actual running option used only on crucial downs and distances and only from spread shotgun formations, PA passing off fake RB stretch/zone-read (look) from spread shotgun. Our OL will definetely need more talent especially at the RT spot, but I believe that upgrade must be in the pipeline. I agree about moving the pocket I think its always a good idea to vary the the launching point and I think that still be accomplished in a spread shotgun formation like the sprint option variation to Moss for a TD early this season/pre-season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I was already in the process of answering..................Less triple option, less zone-read from tight formations more zone read from spread shotgun formations: 2x2, 3x1 and bunch etc, more spread shotgun formation drop back passing- ------> triple option/speed option only as needed to keep defenses honest, zone-read almost exclusively from shotgun spread formations as a complement to and to set-up playaction from spread shotgun formations ----------------->mostly shotgun spread passing, triple option/speed option in rare occasions/crucial downs, RB stretch from spread shotgun in lieu of true zone-read, true zone-read where Griffin is an actual running option used only on crucial downs and distances and only from spread shotgun formations, PA passing off fake RB stretch/zone-read (look) from spread shotgun. Our OL will definetely need more talent especially at the RT spot, but I believe that upgrade must be in the pipeline. I agree about moving the pocket I think its always a good idea to vary the the launching point and I think that still be accomplished in a spread shotgun formation like the sprint option variation to Moss for a TD early this season/pre-season How effective are the zone reads going to be? I mean, it isn't like the defense is clueless to what the offense is trying to do. Aren't they going to give false reads often enough to negate that strategy? What am I missing?I'm not keen on the speed option or the triple option in the pro game as you know. Yes, they give defenses something else to prepare for, but they expose my QB to hits I'd rather eliminate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishskinsfan Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Developing in to a Brady or a Manning. After all the years of fail, that sounds sooooo good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbsfan2018 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Faster McNabb? What? The RG3 is like (insert black QB) analysis is getting strange. steve young edit quoted wrong post. this is to NYG fan that said no running qb has evey won the SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 it's such bs when people are like "well sure RG3 is better now, but in a few years Luck will have evolved into the better of the two" when ALLLLLLLL the talk before the season and before the draft was how Luck was so much more "NFL ready" than Griffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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