Where Credit is Due: Kyle Shanahan

[LiveStrongSkins]

I dont know. I am on the fence. We have played 3 defenses where you would expect points to not be an issue. In these three games, the offense has stalled at critical junctures including yesterday with two shots to take the lead from midfield in the late 3rd. We are in week 3, essentially 80% of the season left and we've gotten our QB battered to be a respectable 1 and 2? We've entrusted our QB's blindside to Jordan Black, a guy who before sitting out a year was suspect. To top it off, in consecutive weeks there has been mismanagement of the clock and a loss of self control by both the players and staff. It concerns me we had to rely on the triple option to get the ball moving.

[DieHard86]

The option is a lazy crutch. Its holding back Griffin's development, and its gonna get him injured for the season.

[LiveStrongSkins]

To all the Kyle haters out there, he's made great strides. He ran the ball early with some efficiency and if he wants to run the read option let him do it. RGIII was laying the lumber as well on defenders (see the hit on Terrance Newman). If Griffin wasn't comfortable running the scheme he wouldn't allow the team to do it, and do it EFFECTIVELY. The Bengals defensive ends had no idea how to stop the zone-read and honestly it was gaining yards with Brandon Banks as the tailback. Banks had the speed to get outside which is what is needed in that brand of offense. Also for those mentioning Washington getting away from the run in the second half, when you're down by two scores you have to take shots in the air to get back in the game! And most of our yards on the ground did come in the second half. If Trent Williams doesn't go down, because Black was terrible early on, and the defense steps up, Washington wins the game yesterday because that offense carried them.

There's more to it then just knowing whether or not RG3 can take the hits. What is not measured in numbers is how much does it take out of him to take those hits, make those runs and then be depended upon to make tough, accurate throws late in games. He is a well conditioned athlete but we are putting too much on him. We are going to get to the point where he is physically exhausted. In my opinion I saw it yesterday on the hail mary attempt.

[LaxinFish29]

Who would have guessed this would turn in to a RGIII is getting killed and we need to run/not run him thread?

[skinsfan07]

Rather have him run on designed runs, than sitting back and gettng killed in the pocket with our patchwork O-line.

[darrelgreenie]

The Washington Redskins have put up 99 points in the first 3 games. As much as I was one to dog-pile Kyle since he's been in DC, I think some credit is now due.

In another thread I described the gameplan and playcalling from the Saints game as virtuoso.

I think this offense is using some cutting edge concepts in the NFL. (ironic to call read option cutting edge but i digress)

A tip of the cap to Kyle and Mike.

This offense is kicking tail with a QB like Griffin it should be just the tip of the iceberg.

I am not without concerns and expectations though.

I expect the offense to become more consistent and efficient.

We shouldn't go enitre halves without scoring.

We have to improve on 3rd down.

I worry about the dimishing returns not of over use but the reliance on read option/QB designed run option plays.

Which also causes Griffin's outstanding passing skillset to be under emphasized.

Imo Griffin and Cam are similar prospects but I think Griffin can throw and progression read at least as well as Cam last year (if not better).

And Cam did most of damage in his first 2 games slinging it around in the base offense.

But it seems the gameplan is being funnelled through Griffin's running ability, which of course makes sense.

But, like Cam I think its better in small doses.

I can't shake the feeling while the current offense is effective its just the tip of the iceberg.

Its like Griffin-Baylor-Kyle-Mike version 1.0 w/ 2.0 coming (hopefully) soon.

I'm hoping the next step is more spread 3-4 WR w/ drop back passing.

I would like to see more rhythm drop back passing where Griffin gets to take a drop and go through his progressions and make his decision/throw; eventually this is where Griffin will make his hay.

Imo that would be the next evolution in the Baylor-Redskins-Griffin East Coast Offense.

Can't wait.

Well, yeah, but the deal on the option runs... (not the (a) ball-in-the-belly fake and option,, the other one with the ( trailing back and the QB heading to the outside)

they can be called a bunch of different things but they're probably closet to (a) zone read ( speed option or just option but both are read option plays

[MAATopDogg]

I like the play calling on Offense as I think Kyle has 85% of all the pieces to really make the offense take off. Despite not having Garcon, a Rookie QB and RB, the erratic play of Hankerson and Aldrick Robinson, and a average OL minus Trent Williams he’s done a good job. I think Hank, Aldrick and Morgan need to step it up a notch. We are one good RT and a receiver that can blow the top off of a defense away from being really good. The only thing is the defense and the entire secondary needs to be rebuild. Kudos Kyle!!!

[jtpop]

The offense has generated more points in the first three games than anyone in the league, it has creativity and quick strike capability. Can't say anything bad about them except they need to beef up protection or RG3 could get killed, Shanahan has a QB lets try to keep him up on two feet.

[deenyce24]

Kyle is showing us that he can be a good OC just never had any weapons for him to utilize his offensive scheme.

[PortisBetts]

He is coaching the heck out of this offense. And i love the way he coaches with some fire. Everyone is up in arms about him chasing down the officials. Well, i love it. He is fighting for his team even after the whistle. Players notice these kinds of things.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Points are a good thing and a lot of them are a result of RG 3 and his skills. While we have scored a lot, having our franchise QB on college options for an entire half and having him get just hammered is not (IMO) a smart game plan. I get the fact that it can have a positive impact, but at what cost? Tana and the TE have virtually been invisable.

Agree with Bang, he needs to be rolling out and making things happen. Granted, a lot of the offensive challenges are magnified given the play of the O line and Kyle should be commended for scoring points.

In most worlds..scoring as many point per game as we score result in wins. In our case...not so much.

[PorkSkins]

AM is our offense. Without his running, we are sporadic at best. AM is a staple of dad's O not KS. KS would throw the ball 50 times a game if the old man would let him. I didn't like the O gameplan yesterday. The triple option was o.k. but it also cost us points. I don't want another Vick or Cam. I want RGIII to show both of them how it is done. Stick to the gameplan. Max protect if you have to but quit exposing our QB. The players played their heart out, I can't say the same about the coaches..

[Enter Apotheosis]

I'll have to rewatch, but I thought we went a bit more conventional in the second half,, using crossing routes and hitting davis.

Davis had a good game,, finally he shows up for his young QB

~BAng

You clearly do need to re-watch because your assessment of the situation stands in stark contrast to what I and others saw. The Bengals weren't prepared for Banks and he gave us a major spark at the right time with 34 yards on 4 touches. I am far from a Banks fan and tend to view him as a liability with the ball as much as (if not more than) he is a threat with the ball... but even I can't help but think that your impression of that particular series is colored in part by blind special teams rage. Griffin started to get blown up less in the backfield after those Banks plays forced the Bengals to respect the threat of the outside run and we became more conventional and started hitting Davis all over the place a good bit later in the game.

There's more to it then just knowing whether or not RG3 can take the hits. What is not measured in numbers is how much does it take out of him to take those hits, make those runs and then be depended upon to make tough, accurate throws late in games. He is a well conditioned athlete but we are putting too much on him. We are going to get to the point where he is physically exhausted. In my opinion I saw it yesterday on the hail mary attempt.

It's a major reach to say the the hail mary attempt was a sign of physical exhaustion, particularly when that was just about the only throw in the entire game that seemed to fall short and Griffin's set-up on the throw seemed off, which would easily have caused the pass to not go the full 70 yards it needed to go to reach the end zone. Griffin needs to stop taking so many hits... but that's at least as much on him as it is on the coaching staff. Playing from behind certainly doesn't help, either, as he's shown he will do whatever it takes to pull out a win even if it gets him smashed up to all hell.

[Dark Acre]

How many teams have more D TDs than we do (2)? Small sample size, but we're averaging a defensive TD in 67% of our games.

[TSO]

Tha's nice, but I would like to know why when our running game started off so promising, and our running back was running very well, that we went ahead and took the ball out of his hands and put it in Brandon Banks' hands.. on option pitches that leave Griffin completely exposed to legal hits. Those are nice, but there's a reason why no one has ever run this offense much in the NFL. Defensive players are too fast, and QBs eventually get KILLED.

Tried to get too cute yesterday.. didn't make sense.

the fact that Banks averages a fumble per game is disturbing. No one can expect that the ball will continue to bounce right back into his hands every time he lays it on the ground.

I don't like Banks. He's speedy.. but he fumbles way way way too often. If he can't run away from a guy he's going down, he will not break anyone's tackle. and if anyone gets square on him, he gets destroyed. With his penchant for fumbling, that scares the **** out of me.

~Bang

Bang, I keep reading how our running game "started out so well" ad nauseam and it's getting a bit annoying. Our game plan was clearly to run off tackle to the left knowing full well Trent was going to own everyone on that side. It was working, which was why our running game "started so well" and "looked so promising". The problem is, Trent got hurt. We started running more to the right and the Bengals adjusted expecting it more. We still tried running the ball in the first half and it got us a couple yards due to Morris just bulldozing his way each time but no more.

The fact is, the triple option adjustment was genius. The Bengals couldn't stop it. It put their defense back on their heels and after that it opened up pretty much everything else we had to do. Anyone who doesn't see that does not remember the game correctly. It stinks that Robert was getting beat up because of it, I understand that. But in terms of adjusting and getting our offense back on track IT WAS PERFECT. Period.

And how about our Special Teams, lol?

Everyone was ecstatic about our D making a play for a TD but forgot that it was our Special Teams that put them in that position to make it. Special Teams showed up for the first time this season and they were the only phase of our team that was playing well the first half. They played well the entire game. Gotta give Danny credit for putting everything together, and I'm not just talking about the lack of any blocks which should be expected. They made plays the entire game and were a strength. Let's hope it finally stays that way.

[Probos]

Offense is better -- but I credit the talent/play of RGIII more than Kyle.

The over use of the triple option has got to stop -- Rob's gonna get F'ing killed. It did spark the offense in the 2nd half but they have got to figure out a better way to adjust -- RGIII is too valuable to the franchise.

Oh,..and the Skins as a team have scored 99 points but the offense 87 of them.

[RedskinParadigm]

To be fair Bang, the only way we turned it around yesterday and started moving the ball and putting up points after half-time was due in a large part to going to the triple option. They found a way to do what they couldn't in the first half that put us right back into the game.

Call it 'gimmicky/ dangerous to the health of the QB' whatever, it worked. Seemed a sound H/T adjustment to me.

Hail.

1000% correct.

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 03:00 PM ----------

The fact is, the triple option adjustment was genius. The Bengals couldn't stop it. It put their defense back on their heels and after that it opened up pretty much everything else we had to do. Anyone who doesn't see that does not remember the game correctly. It stinks that Robert was getting beat up because of it, I understand that. But in terms of adjusting and getting our offense back on track IT WAS PERFECT. Period.

And This. Also 1000% correct.

[scottishskinsfan]

Yes, things are improving but there's still glaring issues with the playcalling and gameplan. There is no patience and we're still too predictable at times.

Against the Rams there wasn't enough running plays called in the first half. Eventually we began to run the ball in behind Trent Williams with success - the only problem was we done it repeatedly to the point the Rams wised up to it although, it wouldn't be too difficult. Instead of trying to mix things up on the run, we abandoned it all together.

Yesterday again, we were running the ball well and failed to stick by it. The option & pitch plays were too predictable and left RGIII open to hits.

In short, the rise in points is largely down to Griffin & our run game - not the playcalling.

[Spooky]

He has done a good job desspite the problems with the o-line. The read options must go despite objections from RG3. The offense is averaging over 28 points. That should be enough to win. This team looses on defense. Our secondary is horrible. Our corners can't cover and our safeties have to be the worse in the league. Special teams is not helping.

[amm0409]

Boyer

#Redskins' M. Shanahan said he is "disappointed" by any notion that K. Shanahan releasing a statement on his actions wasn't professional.

[Born In 93]

Kyle is a damn good OC, our offense isn't the problem at all this season. This is the best redskins offense I've seen in my life.

its all on the defense

[grego]

.

Yesterday again, we were running the ball well and failed to stick by it.

i hope more people start noticing this.

[Bang]

You clearly do need to re-watch because your assessment of the situation stands in stark contrast to what I and others saw. The Bengals weren't prepared for Banks and he gave us a major spark at the right time with 34 yards on 4 touches. I am far from a Banks fan and tend to view him as a liability with the ball as much as (if not more than) he is a threat with the ball... but even I can't help but think that your impression of that particular series is colored in part by blind special teams rage

Sounds good.

I don't think the rage is blind. I gave them props in the positves thread.

First flawless special teams game in a long time.

the reason idon't like Banks is he fumbles. A lot.

He weighs 150 pounds. ( the two of them together is a disaster waiting to happen, IMO)

I like the spark he gave us, love it.

the day one of those fumbles doesn't bounce up into his hands I won't be so happy. Hope it never happens, but..

---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 11:36 PM ----------

And how about our Special Teams, lol?

Everyone was ecstatic about our D making a play for a TD but forgot that it was our Special Teams that put them in that position to make it. Special Teams showed up for the first time this season and they were the only phase of our team that was playing well the first half. They played well the entire game. Gotta give Danny credit for putting everything together, and I'm not just talking about the lack of any blocks which should be expected. They made plays the entire game and were a strength. Let's hope it finally stays that way.

The fact we celebrate a game in which they do what is expected is a message..

loved it. Thought it was fantastic.. good clean hits, no penalties at all. For some inexplicable reason the Bengals never really came after a punt.. have no idea why. but we take what they do,and the redskins STs dominated their part of the game.

Hope they do it again next week.

~Bang

[illone]

I like the style of plays and the overall result, but this offense has a long way to go before it's firing on all cylinders.

Once teams have a few games of information to study on Griff, things will get tougher since right now he is new to the league and his tendencies are still unknown.

Kyle is ok, but I think most anyone would be having success with RG3 right now.

[CRobi21]

i hope more people start noticing this.

We were also down by 21 by the time we went away from running Alfred.