AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Is it a bigger deal than the rebuke the Vatican gave U.S. nuns (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/american-nuns-stunned-by-vatican-accusation-of-radical-feminism-crackdown/2012/04/20/gIQAi4gkWT_story.html)or the response of The Leadership Conference of Women religious: http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/blog/catholic-sisters-on-trial/ or that at least one priest here in the U.S. (http://www.faithinpubliclife.org/blog/a-brave-catholic-pastor-defends-nuns-blasts-vatican-crackdown/) is publicly siding with the nuns? To my mind at least these are more interesting stories with greater potential impact to the Church than a leak scandal or money laundering. Those issues have been around forever. I would put acknowledging a potential split in church culture as pretty big news. Honestly, I find which issues are splitting them to be interesting too. Women's role in church, gay rights, support of Obamacare, etc. are all issues I would expect the institution of the Church to be unanimously behind one and only one position. I would say these recent stories have the most potential impact on the Church in the U,S, since the molestation charges broke. Fine, but none of these lead us to the hijacking of the thread regarding taxation and the church...which was what I was addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Fair enough. In truth, I debated making another thread with just the stories I linked to ask whether the Catholic church is likely to face the same split other protestant churches have endurred in recent years with a conservative side and a liberal side. Was it the Methodist or the Presbyterians (sp?) who split over gay marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Fair enough. In truth, I debated making another thread with just the stories I linked to ask whether the Catholic church is likely to face the same split other protestant churches have endurred in recent years with a conservative side and a liberal side. Was it the Methodist or the Presbyterians (sp?) who split over gay marriage? The Presbyterians had a large group split off...we Methodists still believe in being United enough to get together every four years and call each other homophobes and apostates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Fair enough. In truth, I debated making another thread with just the stories I linked to ask whether the Catholic church is likely to face the same split other protestant churches have endurred in recent years with a conservative side and a liberal side. Was it the Methodist or the Presbyterians (sp?) who split over gay marriage? I suspect 1 of 3 things is going to happen: 1. The current Pope will die in not too many years and a more "enlightened" leadership will take over. My understanding is that this is unlikely as the more "liberal" leadership is actually mostly the older leadership (the people that were present pre-Vatican II and forced Vatican II, while the younger leadership is tends more "conservative" and would like to take the Church back to pre-Vatican II (at least that's what I've been told)). 2. That there will be some sort of large scale split off, likely centered around the nuns and you will end up with two different populations of "Catholics" 3. The Catholic Church population continue to shrink and it will become less and less of a meaningful organization and its members will most likely simple leave organized religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 3. The Catholic Church population continue to shrink and it will become less and less of a meaningful organization and its members will most likely simple leave organized religion. Or become Methodists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 The Vatican Bank and the Catholic Church was the first bank. Nobles traveling would deposit money with their local parish and then draw upon a letter of credit at various parishes along their way. I recently saw something pertaining to that. Was it the Knights Templar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 2. That there will be some sort of large scale split off, likely centered around the nuns and you will end up with two different populations of "Catholics" I thought there already were two? It would be a interesting division, but isn't funding and property ownership rather one sided? If so is the split you imagine sustainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Who cares, they literally do anything they want. Keep blindly following this disgusting cult and it'll keep on doing anything it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Or become Methodists. Is there a difference? ---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 09:31 PM ---------- I thought there already were two?It would be a interesting division, but isn't funding and property ownership rather one sided? If so is the split you imagine sustainable? There are really so make it a 3rd. The Roman Catholic Chruch in Rome (i.e. the Pope) doesn't actually own the property of most churches in the US. They are owned by the diocese (there are 194 diocese in the US), which are run by Bishops (where each diocese , and in some cases individual parishes have been spun off as corporations and the own the Church property. Now, if a Church or Bishop tried to spin off into a new "Church", I'd expect Rome would throw a fit and try and replace the person in charge. But legally, I'd be curious to see how it would work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 When there is a conspiracy that involves the Papal butler (and who knows how many others) which involves stolen correspondence and accusations of money laundering etc, not to mention the theories about corruption up to and including the Papal office itself...then it is a pretty big deal. ? A controversy not a conspiracy involveing the Pope's butler is certainly a big deal. But relatively speaking I still say this is small potato's conparted to the controversies which have hit the church recently. I mean really papers that were leaked by the "butler" which suggest an 85+ year old Pope is not totally in charge of his office... really? That's news to people? Maybe it's news, I'm not thinking howerver it's a big news... .Ok the butler did it... the butler being fired.. all that is a little dust up... fine.. The bigger issue is the Vatican firing the banker who they brought in to creat transparency in the Vatican Bank... But so far their isn't really any claim of malphesanse, although come on the Vatican bank has a major financial problem a few times a decade... So if there was it would hardly be big news.. I mean it's not like that banker was found strung up by his neck under a local bridge named for religious infamy or anything... *caugh caugh* 1980's.... I still say the investigation into how the church mishandled the child abuse cases, and the fact that some relatively high ranking church members are being charged and threatenned with serious jail time is bigger issue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Why do they call him a butler? Call him an admin assistant, make us feel better about tithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Why do they call him a butler? Call him an admin assistant, make us feel better about tithing. I think he's part nurse, adult superviser, babysitter, admin, housekeeper, and personal assistant.. A gentleman's gentleman. Buttler.. Sebastian Cabit without Buffy and Jody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Apparently is wasn't the butler after all. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/04/vatileaks-strikes-again-was-the-butler-framed.html The VatiLeaks source has struck again! But this time, the butler didn’t do it. On Sunday, editors at the Italian newspaper La Repubblica published several documents they say were mailed to them after the arrest of Pope Benedict XVI’s butler, Paolo Gabriele, on May 24. Gabriele is being held in a “secure room” somewhere within the tiny walled borders of Vatican City. He faces 30 years in prison for aggravated theft for allegedly leaking documents to Gianluigi Nuzzi, an Italian journalist who printed many of the confidential papers in the bestselling book His Holiness. Nuzzi will not reveal his sources’ names, ages, or gender, but he told The Daily Beast that they were Vatican employees trying to expose “the truth behind the Vatican’s lies.” more at link ---------- Post added June-4th-2012 at 11:00 AM ---------- ? A controversy not a conspiracy involveing the Pope's butler is certainly a big deal. But relatively speaking I still say this is small potato's conparted to the controversies which have hit the church recently.I mean really papers that were leaked by the "butler" which suggest an 85+ year old Pope is not totally in charge of his office... really? That's news to people? Maybe it's news, I'm not thinking howerver it's a big news... .Ok the butler did it... the butler being fired.. all that is a little dust up... fine.. The bigger issue is the Vatican firing the banker who they brought in to creat transparency in the Vatican Bank... But so far their isn't really any claim of malphesanse, although come on the Vatican bank has a major financial problem a few times a decade... So if there was it would hardly be big news.. I mean it's not like that banker was found strung up by his neck under a local bridge named for religious infamy or anything... *caugh caugh* 1980's.... I still say the investigation into how the church mishandled the child abuse cases, and the fact that some relatively high ranking church members are being charged and threatenned with serious jail time is bigger issue.. Fine, but this is bigger because it is actually closer to the Pope, and some are saying that this is a move against this Pope by those in the hierarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Fine, but this is bigger because it is actually closer to the Pope, and some are saying that this is a move against this Pope by those in the hierarchy. HA!!! This is not a move against the Pope by his hierarchy... Dude.. really... You think you move against an 85 year old Pope by leaking a few papers to a guy writing a nasty book and then wait a few more years as additional scandals continue to exert pressure finally resulting in a decade or so removing him from office best case? This is the Catholic Church... We've had Popes murdered in prison with a ball pean hammer.... We've had a Pope murder controversy as recently as the 1960's.. We've had scandals with threatenned the Papacy's legitamacy within the last few years, even months... We have a letter signed by this pope outlineing proposing the churches strategy for dealing with the child abuse scandals... Hell we have had the vatican assert the Pope couldn't be extradited or called as a witness even in various courts because he is the sovereign of an independent country... The buttler leaking papers which suggest the Pope might not be in full command of the Catholic church is mild by comparison. Might sell a few books, not going to scratch the paint on the Pope's hold on office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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