The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. **2018 Nominees**

[TradeTheBeal!]

No Journey, no peace.   **** KISS.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nirvana-kiss-e-street-lead-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fames-2014-class-20131216#ixzz2nhmKNcH5

 

Nirvana, Kiss, Peter Gabriel, Daryl Hall and John Oates, Cat Stevens and Linda Rondstat are your 2014 inductees.

 

That may be the weirdest class ever.

 

So who does Gene Simmons offend most in his acceptance speech? He has a dead guy, a Muslim, a hyper serious Brit, and an older, once gorgeous woman to choose from.

[Rocky21]

Congrats to Hall & Oates; Third on my list of deserving bands that should be and in got in.

Kiss sucks ass. Total clown time bro.

[skinsmarydu]

That may be the weirdest class ever.

 

So who does Gene Simmons offend most in his acceptance speech? He has a dead guy, a Muslim, a hyper serious Brit, and an older, once gorgeous woman to choose from.

That leaves Hall & Oates...he's jealous of the bass line in "She's Gone", I'm tellin' ya...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That leaves Hall & Oates...he's jealous of the bass line in "She's Gone", I'm tellin' ya...

 

John Hall has Lyme disease. Maybe he can go with "Lymie disease" and then talk about how he should have a million STDs because of all the sex he had but doesn't because he is too awesome.

You know how they get modern acts to cover the inductees at these things? They should get - I dunno - Jimmy Fallon maybe to cover Paul Stanley's stage banter. It's a better idea than The Black Keys doing Black Diamond.

 

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/detroit/index.ssf/2013/04/kiss_frontman_paul_stanleys_st.html

[Kilmer17]

KISS absolutely deserved to be in.  Hating them doesnt diminish their worthiness.  I hated Mariano Rivera, but he belongs in the HOF.

 

I wonder if Ace and Peter will join them on stage?

 

I cant wait to see who they get to cover some of their songs.

 

And good for Hall and Oates.  Great band.  Well deserving.

[Sticksboi05]

I don't follow who is in or not in, but I know Journey better be in. They should have been one of the first bands in.

 

Define what you mean by "one of the first"

^^ Never even heard of most of those. Only Nirvana and Kiss should get in.

Btw, no rap artist/group should ever get in. That's not music.

 

You are such a broken record with this.  You are that copy of Led Zeppelin II that has been collecting dust in the back of the garage since 1969 with this.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Define what you mean by "one of the first"

 

You are such a broken record with this.  You are that copy of Led Zeppelin II that has been collecting dust in the back of the garage since 1969 with this.

 

Chuck Klosterman offers the best counter-argument to this nonsense: "Rock music" is simply "music that teenagers liked."

 

In an old podcast, Bill Simmons was arguing that "rock" music should be considered a guy with a guitar, a bass player, a drummer, and a lead singer. And Klosterman countered, "That means that no Motown or Stax artists get in, but Bad Company does."

 

Anyway, this whole enterprise is kind of bizarre. But if you are complaining about "fake" music, I don't know how you turn around defend Journey. That whole band ultimately became a vehicle for the keyboard player's soft rock genius. Jonathon Cain should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (He wrote "Who's Cryin' Now," "Don't Stop Believin'," "Open Arms," "Separate Ways" and "Faithfully," which means he may be the great pop genius of the early 80s.

[Rocky21]

To be eligible for induction to the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame you have to had "demonstrated unquestionable musical excellence." I have no idea how Kiss demonstrated unquestionable musical excellence. Now if there was a Marketing Hall of Fame....

Plus your boy Gene Simmons seems MUCH more interested in money than music. You know, what it's supposedly all about.

NPR Interview with Terry Gross

http://www.cpworks.org/rotton_school/blog/TERRYGRO.HTM

Gene Simmons: But what you can't argue with is the American notion, which is "of the people, for the people, by the people." They vote with money. You and I, we just sit here and we talk and toss the ball around. That doesn't mean a lot. So at the end of the --

Terry Gross: Are you trying to say to me that all that matters to you is money?

Gene Simmons: I will contend, and you try to disprove it, that the most important thing as we know it on this planet, in this plane, is, in fact, money.

Terry Gross: Are you interested in music, or is the goal of being in a rock band to have sex a lot?

Gene Simmons: I believe in my heart that anyone who gets up there and says what they're doing is art is on crack, and is delusional, and that in point of fact, what they really ... their modus operandi initially -- perhaps it changed when they started to question their sexuality, but clearly, initially -- it was to get laid and make lots of money. And anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

Terry Gross: What was the age of your audience when KISS started to perform?

Gene Simmons: That's a good question, because in 1972 or 73 when we first started, it was late teens, I'd say 18 to 20, 60 to 70 percent male, and then, uh, when KISS became the No. 1 band, you know, within a year and a half, we were playing Anaheim Stadium and we had toys, games, comic books, everything you can imagine. The age really widened. And we had fans as young as 3 years old. And then through the '80s and stuff, the audience got older as we did less toys, less comic books, and so on. And now in the '90s and the 2000 era, we've got over 2,500 licenses: There's a KISS Broadway play on the way with Rob Roth, who directed Beauty and the Beast, a KISS cartoon show with the people who do Transformers and Beast Wars. In other words, there are KISS comic books in the works. Superman meets KISS. That's going to be the kickoff of the new Superman, uh, rather, the new KISS comic books series. So we're going everywhere. I can be on the cover of Playboy magazine, and I can sell comic books and bubble gum to younger fans. And it's all good. And instead of being in a rock and roll band -- who the hell wants to do that? I don't -- I want to be in a rock and roll brand. I want to be Disney without the overhead. And I'm on the way.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

KISS has almost always been more about marketing than music. But I honestly think Gene Simmons may be engaging in some bizarre performance art these days.

 

Howard Stern used to have a comedian named Craig Gass come on his show and do this incredible Gene Simmons impression. In it, he would try to sell some ridiculous KISS-branded merchandise. Simmons eventually came on and met Gass, and - I swear to God - since then, he has been doing the impression himself. It's sort of like how when Dylan plays "All Along The Watchtower" now, he is doing the Hendrix version. Or how George HW Bush sometimes would say "Wouldn't be prudent" after Dana Carvey started saying it.

 

Simmons's image is now based on an impression of Gene Simmons.

[Predicto]

Everyone's idea of worthy entrants to the R&R Hall of Fame can be defined as:

 

"the bands I personally listened to when I was 16 years old because they were awesome, man!"

 

There are no criteria that can satisfy everyone.  

[DM72]

Glad Hall and Oates FINALLY get in. Way overdue.

 

Still don't believe Nirvana should have got in as quick as they did. Please tell me, why are they shoe-ins but bands/groups like Def Leppard and The Spinners aren't?

[Kilmer17]

Who gets to define "Musical excellence"?

 

KISS has sold 100 million records.  They rank in between the Who and the Beach Boys for most sold.

 

They took live concert experience to a level never seen before.  They essentially created the "Live Concert Album" idea.

 

They created the Hard Rock ballad.

 

They are listed by damn near every metal band since the 80s as an influence.

 

It's far too easy to dismiss them as sellouts because of the merchandise side of the business (I cant wait to hear people howl when it becomes a touring show like Blue Man Group).

 

But they made great rock and roll albums for a long time.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Glad Hall and Oates FINALLY get in. Way overdue.

 

Still don't believe Nirvana should have got in as quick as they did. Please tell me, why are they shoe-ins but bands/groups like Def Leppard and The Spinners aren't?

I can't speak for why the Spinners aren't in already but as for Nirvana...they popularized a subgenre of music..."Grunge".

 

I'm assuming that's what gives them the edge over a Def Leppard.

[Sticksboi05]

I can't speak for why the Spinners aren't in already but as for Nirvana...they popularized a subgenre of music..."Grunge".

 

I'm assuming that's what gives them the edge over a Def Leppard.

 

Or for releasing the album that (along with others), is widely considered to have completely changed the face of popular American music in 1991 and spurring the "alternative rock" explosion.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Everyone's idea of worthy entrants to the R&R Hall of Fame can be defined as:

 

"the bands I personally listened to when I was 16 years old because they were awesome, man!"

 

There are no criteria that can satisfy everyone.  

 

The main problem I've always had with it has been the fact that the nominees so often were pulled from Jann Wenner's address book.

 

He seems to have less say these days, which is good. (I don't think any KISS album ever got more than 2 stars in Rolling Stone).

 

It's going to get really interesting once they get through the mid-90s, because the music industry has changed so damn much. You just don't have these unifying, era-defining bands any longer - at least among dudes. Somewhere in the last 15 years, girls started pushing the train - even in rock. That's probably why Dave Matthews and Coldplay are pretty much the last "arena" rockers left.

 

It actually turns on its head one of the smartest things the aforementioned Gene Simmons ever said. He once said that you want female fans, because that's how you become a superstar. But not too many female fans, because that's how you become a one-hit wonder. KISS survived the 80s because they had enough male fans to buy their lousy pop metal albums. (Which actually may have had some of their best songs on them).

 

I don't know if that applies any longer, but I don't know how anyone has a long-term music career these days.

[Sticksboi05]

The main problem I've always had with it has been the fact that the nominees so often were pulled from Jann Wenner's address book.

He seems to have less say these days, which is good. (I don't think any KISS album ever got more than 2 stars in Rolling Stone).

 

It's going to get really interesting once they get through the mid-90s, because the music industry has changed so damn much. You just don't have these unifying, era-defining bands any longer - at least among dudes. Somewhere in the last 15 years, girls started pushing the train - even in rock. That's probably why Dave Matthews and Coldplay are pretty much the last "arena" rockers left.

 

I was recently discussing this with a friend.  I mean who is the biggest band on Earth right now?  Probably still U2 right, despite having their biggest success from the mid-80s to the mid-90s.  I mean Coldplay maybe but if two dueling concerts are announced at Knebworth for 2014 and both play on separate nights, I'm guessing U2's show outsells Coldplay's.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Who gets to define "Musical excellence"?

 

KISS has sold 100 million records.  They rank in between the Who and the Beach Boys for most sold.

 

They took live concert experience to a level never seen before.  They essentially created the "Live Concert Album" idea.

 

They created the Hard Rock ballad.

 

They are listed by damn near every metal band since the 80s as an influence.

 

It's far too easy to dismiss them as sellouts because of the merchandise side of the business (I cant wait to hear people howl when it becomes a touring show like Blue Man Group).

 

But they made great rock and roll albums for a long time.

 

I keep going back to him, but Klosterman talks a lot about this in Fargo Rock City. Critics hate KISS, but he argues that if they had flamed out, their early stuff would actually be compared favorable to the New York Dolls' output.

 

I'm not anti-metal. I love Van Halen, which is basically Kiss songs played by virtuosoes. And there are a few KISS songs that I'm okay with. And I don't really have a problem with Gene and Paul - who are by all accounts total jackasses. I just find their songs so very very lazy. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I was recently discussing this with a friend.  I mean who is the biggest band on Earth right now?  Probably still U2 right, despite having their biggest success from the mid-80s to the mid-90s.  I mean Coldplay maybe but if two dueling concerts are announced at Knebworth for 2014 and both play on separate nights, I'm guessing U2's show outsells Coldplay's.

 

Touring act? Well, in all honesty, if the Stones announce a tour, they are out-selling both.

 

Relevent to the culture touring act? U2 maybe. They still manage to get some airplay for their stuff. The Foo Fighters might be somewhere in the conversation too. Maybe. I don't know. Dave Grohl might give so many interviews that it just seems like he is popular.

 

The biggest recent act might be The Black Keys. They can sort of play arenas.

 

Oh...crap...never mind. We are all idiots and snobs.

 

The biggest rock act of the last ten years is not even a competition. It's Nickelback.

 

Here and Now - 2011 (Gold)

Dark Horse - 2008 (Triple Platinum)

All The Right Reasons - 2005 (8X Platinum)

The Long Road - 2003 (Triple Platinum)

Silver Side Up - 2001 (6X Platinum)

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In comparison, Coldplay:

 

Mylo Xyloto (2011) - Platinum

Vida La Vida (2008) - Double Platinum

X&Y (2003) - Triple Platinum

A Rush of Blood To The Head (2002) - 4X Platinum

Parachutes (2000) - Double Platinum

 

Coldplay is not hurting for sales obviously, but Nickelback's two biggest albums outsold their entire catalogue. And I would argue that Nickelback is probably more of a singles band than anything. I guarantee you their biggest singles dwarf anything that Coldplay released.

 

Coldplay's stuff does sound better in movie trailers though.

[Sticksboi05]

Touring act? Well, in all honesty, if the Stones announce a tour, they are out-selling both.

 

Relevent to the culture touring act? U2 maybe. They still manage to get some airplay for their stuff. The Foo Fighters might be somewhere in the conversation too. Maybe. I don't know. Dave Grohl might give so many interviews that it just seems like he is popular.

 

The biggest recent act might be The Black Keys. They can sort of play arenas.

 

Oh...crap...never mind. We are all idiots and snobs.

 

The biggest rock act of the last ten years is not even a competition. It's Nickelback.

 

Here and Now - 2011 (Gold)

Dark Horse - 2008 (Triple Platinum)

All The Right Reasons - 2005 (8X Platinum)

The Long Road - 2003 (Triple Platinum)

Silver Side Up - 2001 (6X Platinum)

 

I said this also, but they are selling out for historical reasons, U2 is still releasing new music.  But yes, the Stones sold out Hyde Park effortlessly obviously and their entire 50 and Counting Tour.

 

I think the biggest potential short-lived band is definitely Led Zeppelin announcing a final tour.  Their 2007 reunion show was the fastest selling concert ever.  I know you don't like them though.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I said this also, but they are selling out for historical reasons, U2 is still releasing new music.  But yes, the Stones sold out Hyde Park effortlessly obviously and their entire 50 and Counting Tour.

 

I think the biggest potential short-lived band is definitely Led Zeppelin announcing a final tour.  Their 2007 reunion show was the fastest selling concert ever.  I know you don't like them though.

 

I wonder if Led Zeppelin has left more money on the table than any band in history. I mean, The Eagles all hate each other, but they are never going to stop touring because they have mortgages on fourth houses to pay. Robert Plant seems perfectly content to playing to 2000 people with Alison Krauss for the rest of his life. It's weirdly noble.

 

The Beatles could have made money in the 70s, but it wasn't until the mid to late 80s that the huge touring dollars were there and - by then - they couldn't do it. Had John lived and they had not reunited before then, I can't even begin to imagine what a 1991 Beatles Reunion tour would have grossed.

The Who have milked every possible cent they could ever hope to earn. The Stones are going to play until either they or their fans are all dead.

[Sticksboi05]

In comparison, Coldplay:

 

Mylo Xyloto (2011) - Platinum

Vida La Vida (2008) - Double Platinum

X&Y (2003) - Triple Platinum

A Rush of Blood To The Head (2002) - 4X Platinum

Parachutes (2000) - Double Platinum

 

Coldplay is not hurting for sales obviously, but Nickelback's two biggest albums outsold their entire catalogue. And I would argue that Nickelback is probably more of a singles band than anything. I guarantee you their biggest singles dwarf anything that Coldplay released.

 

Coldplay's stuff does sound better in movie trailers though.

 

Where are you getting your sales?  I'm pretty sure Mylo Xloto is 8x platinum for example.

[Sticksboi05]

I wonder if Led Zeppelin has left more money on the table than any band in history. I mean, The Eagles all hate each other, but they are never going to stop touring because they have mortgages on fourth houses to pay. Robert Plant seems perfectly content to playing to 2000 people with Alison Krauss for the rest of his life. It's weirdly noble.

 

The Beatles could have made money in the 70s, but it wasn't until the mid to late 80s that the huge touring dollars were there and - by then - they couldn't do it. Had John lived and they had not reunited before then, I can't even begin to imagine what a 1991 Beatles Reunion tour would have grossed.

The Who have milked every possible cent they could ever hope to earn. The Stones are going to play until either they or their fans are all dead.

 

2025.  Oasis returns to Knebworth for the 30th anniversary of What's The Story...now that'd sell out in a flash.  Of course it would if they did it in 2015 too, or in 2014 for Definitely Maybe (the better album anyway).  But will they be coked up so it's really like old times?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Where are you getting your sales?  I'm pretty sure Mylo Xloto is 8x platinum for example.

 

I'm getting it from Wikipedia, and I 'm just looking at US sales, not international. Because **** Europe, that's why. (It apparently did sell 3 million copies in Europe).

 

There is no way on Earth a rock album released in 2011 sold 8 million copies though.

 

You may be thinking of Vida La Vida. That sold 7 million copies worldwide in 2008.

 

(Something I did not know: 21 by Adele has been certified Diamond - 10 million US copies. I didn't know albums could still do that).

2025.  Oasis returns to Knebworth for the 30th anniversary of What's The Story...now that'd sell out in a flash.  Of course it would if they did it in 2015 too, or in 2014 for Definitely Maybe (the better album anyway).  But will they be coked up so it's really like old times?

 

In all honesty, I have never completely understood the British public's buying habits or musical tastes. I used to look at the British charts in Rolling Stone back in the day and in the US, the top selling albums would be The Bodyguard Soundtrack and Mariah Carey and in Britian the #1 album would be, like, Leo Sayer's greatest hits. I think Dionne Warwick could sell out Knebworth in less than a day.