Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The point the students made was that college educations are becoming unaffordable. And you think the solution to that problem is to eliminate federally subsidized loans? Can you explain how higher student loan interest rates will lower the cost of college educations? Oh, for God's sake. This is supply and demand 101. When everyone can get a big, fat loan to pay for college, what do you expect to happen to tuition? Why do you think tuition has been going up at a much higher rate than inflation for years and years? It's magical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Actually, I really hope Perry doesn't drop out of the race soon. I would definitely miss him in the rest of the debates. It is pure comedy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Student loan defaults are not the next big problem facing this country. A big problem, however, is the fact that college educations are becoming unaffordable. And why do you think that they have become unaffordable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 [You economic dumbasses would actually dare to stop giving easy student loans to anyone with a pulse?!] A big problem, however, is the fact that college educations are becoming unaffordable. Amazing. Just... amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Oh, for God's sake. This is supply and demand 101. When everyone can get a big, fat loan to pay for college, what do you expect to happen to tuition? Why do you think tuition has been going up at a much higher rate than inflation for years and years? It's magical? Just trying to clarify. So fewer people would go to college because everyone can't get a big fat loan to pay for college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Oh, for God's sake. This is supply and demand 101. When everyone can get a big, fat loan to pay for college, what do you expect to happen to tuition? Why do you think tuition has been going up at a much higher rate than inflation for years and years? It's magical? This. Not to mention, the blatant waste, fraud and abuse of the system. Have we not seen this in Medicare, Medicaid, housing subsidies etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Actually, I really hope Perry doesn't drop out of the race soon. I would definitely miss him in the rest of the debates. It is pure comedy gold. There's another debate on Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just trying to clarify. So fewer people would go to college because everyone can't get a big fat loan to pay for college? If prices didn't respond to demand, sure. In other words, in Madison's imaginary world, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Oh, for God's sake. This is supply and demand 101. When everyone can get a big, fat loan to pay for college, what do you expect to happen to tuition? Why do you think tuition has been going up at a much higher rate than inflation for years and years? It's magical? So, just to clarify, your contention is the reason why higher education costs have been growing at an unreasonable clip is because of federally funded student loan programs, right? And the solution to that problem is to reduce the number of people who can go to college by getting rid of those programs, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Amazing. Just... amazing. Isn't it? Not to mention, (not trying to start a class warfare debate) blue collar people who may never go to college are paying tuition for future higher earners to go to college? Is it the government's place to subsidize future higher earners at the expense of average working people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If prices didn't respond to demand, sure. In other words, in Madison's imaginary world, sure. I'm sorry, I'll step into your magical fantasyland where federal student loan programs disappear and tuition rates promptly plunge so precipitously that student enrollment won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Isn't it? Not to mention, (not trying to start a class warfare debate) blue collar people who may never go to college are paying tuition for future higher earners to go to college? Is it the government's place to Why subsidize future higher earners at the expense of average working people? Isn't education one of the pillars that makes America great? Should America not have public universities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So, just to clarify, your contention is the reason why higher education costs have been growing at an unreasonable clip is because of federally funded student loan programs, right? And the solution to that problem is to reduce the number of people who can go to college by getting rid of those programs, right? If only every student and institution actually used that money for education. The system has been abused over and over for billions of tax payer dollars. Even if they werent ended, the D of E needs reformed badly. ---------- Post added November-9th-2011 at 10:42 PM ---------- Isn't education one of the pillars that makes America great? Should America not have public universities? I didnt say that that we shouldnt have public universities. (I currently attend one myself) If you read the rest of my posts, I agree with ending Federal student loans that are driving up the COST of tuition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So, just to clarify, your contention is the reason why higher education costs have been growing at an unreasonable clip is because of federally funded student loan programs, right? Yes. And the solution to that problem is to reduce the number of people who can go to college by getting rid of those programs, right? Oh good, we're still stuck in the imaginary world where demand and price have nothing to do with each other. Yes, in Imaginationland, where prices are determined by, I don't know, the daily exchange rate between Stanley Nickels and Schrute Bucks, the only possible outcome of ending federal student loans is a reduced number of people who go to college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm sorry, I'll step into your magical fantasyland where federal student loan programs disappear and tuition rates promptly plunge so precipitously that student enrollment won't change. I think you fail to see the forrest for the trees. Information is more available now than at any point in the history of the world, yet education prices have skyrocketed. This is not how a free economy works. You don't have to understand the underlying reasons to know that there's an outside force at work here. I wouldn't get rid of the student loan program, but I would fundamentally transform it, starting with basing the program on community colleges (which are affordable now) and what will become more online options if the governments are willing to accredit more universities. Only the very best students (e.g., those who graduate CC) would then qualify for more grants and loans to 4 year schools, and they'd be limited to in-state schools or out of state institutions that cost less than in-state schools. Look up the studies on the %'s of kids who get these loans/grants that graduate within 6 years. They're incredibly low...which means they're not able to be paid back. This is exactly what we did with housing and the problem is also very big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yes. So, the rise in tuition has nothing to do with massive state budget cuts, huge increases in the cost of student services (e.g., dramatically higher IT costs), etc.? I suppose if I lived in the Libertarian Alternate Universe I might blame it all on federal student loan programs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Isn't education one of the pillars that makes America great? Should America not have public universities? You're seeing the peril of "public" universities today. By not accrediting competition, and putting no or low standards on loans for, they're inflating prices and lowering the quality of an eduction in these public universities, big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Look up the studies on the %'s of kids who get these loans/grants that graduate within 6 years. They're incredibly low...which means they're not able to be paid back. This is exactly what we did with housing and the problem is also very big. On average, around HALF of students who start college actually earn a bachelors degree... but we need more people to attend college... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Yes. Surely you have a link to prove your point Those of us with kids know that demand is high because we know a college education is like yesteryears high school education. Another genius idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So, the rise in tuition has nothing to do with massive state budget cuts, huge increases in the cost of student services (e.g., dramatically higher IT costs), etc.? I suppose if I lived in the Libertarian Alternate Universe I might blame it all on federal student loan programs too. It's very simple. If you can raise prices and still get paid, you raise prices. Sure tuition would drop, the subsidies were created to give the less fortunate a shot. Colleges would have to drop prices in order to keep rates at minimal operating levels. The banks would then be more willing to be more competitive with their rates since the market still exists. Feel free to disagree, but that's what the good Doctor was getting at. I don't see how you can't wrap your mind around the logic, even if you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm sorry, I'll step into your magical fantasyland where federal student loan programs disappear and tuition rates promptly plunge so precipitously that student enrollment won't change. You don't get it. It isn't mathematically possible for this system to keep going for that much longer. Let's say that tuition goes up at 8% per year while inflation averages 2%. This is a very simple mathematical disparity to figure out. We'll take a 4-year combined cost of tuition, room & board, books, etc. of $100,000 today. We'll also take a family income of $100,000 today. In one year, that education cost is now $108,000 while the family income is $102,000. Uh-oh, a few more families can't afford the full cost of college. No need to worry, though, there are federal loans for that. Two years in, the education cost is $116,640, while the income is $104,040. Uh-oh again! Thank God for those loans. Ten years in, the education cost is $215,892. The income is $121,899. Twenty years, the education is $466,095. The income is $148,594. Twenty years, and the gap has grown by three hundred thousand dollars, or by two times the entire after-inflation family income. You're not arguing with me. You're arguing with math. And I hate to break it to you, but math doesn't care if you think it's mean. Math doesn't care if kids graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans that will bankrupt them (but, cruelly, can't even be discharged in bankruptcy). Math doesn't care if their wages will be forcibly garnished because the system has inflated the cost of college so much that paying back loans has to be done by court order. Math doesn't care. So, please, when you're telling me that I'm not thinking of the children who are 16, make sure to tack on an explanation of how I'm not thinking of the children who are 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Surely you have a link to prove your point Those of us with kids know that demand is high because we know a college education is like yesteryears high school education. Another genius idea. Is it because more are going to college? Perhaps the requirement for that degree shrinks or goes away when the supply thins out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 So, the rise in tuition has nothing to do with massive state budget cuts, huge increases in the cost of student services (e.g., dramatically higher IT costs), etc.? I suppose if I lived in the Libertarian Alternate Universe I might blame it all on federal student loan programs too. Id say it has more to do with the fact that the department of education is more than $3 billion or more annually to waste, fraud and loan defaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Surely you have a link to prove your point Those of us with kids know that demand is high because we know a college education is like yesteryears high school education. Another genius idea. I know. It's almost like everyone goes to college nowadays. ---------- Post added November-9th-2011 at 11:02 PM ---------- So, the rise in tuition has nothing to do with massive state budget cuts, huge increases in the cost of student services (e.g., dramatically higher IT costs), etc.? I suppose if I lived in the Libertarian Alternate Universe I might blame it all on federal student loan programs too. You mean the things that have happened in the past couple of years? You're right, it's that dastardly 2009-2011 period that's the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I know. It's almost like everyone goes to college nowadays.---------- Post added November-9th-2011 at 11:02 PM ---------- You mean the things that have happened in the past couple of years? You're right, it's that dastardly 2009-2011 period that's the real problem. Well yeah almost everyone does. Yet again, a genius op ed post without any meat to it. BTW, you want me to show the chart of housing prices since 1982???? What do you have other than silliness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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