Wrong Direction Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sure tuition would drop, the subsidies were created to give the less fortunate a shot. But now tuition has inflated to levels that these loans are needed for middle and upper middle class families. It's yet another total failure of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You don't get it. It isn't mathematically possible for this system to keep going for that much longer.Let's say that tuition goes up at 8% per year while inflation averages 2%. This is a very simple mathematical disparity to figure out. We'll take a 4-year combined cost of tuition, room & board, books, etc. of $100,000 today. We'll also take a family income of $100,000 today. In one year, that education cost is now $108,000 while the family income is $102,000. Uh-oh, a few more families can't afford the full cost of college. No need to worry, though, there are federal loans for that. Two years in, the education cost is $116,640, while the income is $104,040. Uh-oh again! Thank God for those loans. Ten years in, the education cost is $215,892. The income is $121,899. Twenty years, the education is $466,095. The income is $148,594. Twenty years, and the gap has grown by three hundred thousand dollars, or by two times the entire after-inflation family income. You're not arguing with me. You're arguing with math. And I hate to break it to you, but math doesn't care if you think it's mean. Math doesn't care if kids graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans that will bankrupt them (but, cruelly, can't even be discharged in bankruptcy). Math doesn't care if their wages will be forcibly garnished because the system has inflated the cost of college so much that paying back loans has to be done by court order. Math doesn't care. So, please, when you're telling me that I'm not thinking of the children who are 16, make sure to tack on an explanation of how I'm not thinking of the children who are 6. Well said. I love hearing stories about successful business people today who worked while going to school full-time in past decades and that was enough to pay their tuition. They made the decision to work their ass off and they weren't laced with debt when they graduated. Now it can be argued that the value of many non-technical degrees is plunging, while the costs are still skyrocketing. Another mathematical disparity that will either correct itself with devastating effect, or need to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 But now tuition has inflated to levels that these loans are needed for middle and upper middle class families. It's yet another total failure of government. Exactly. As Jo Pa would say, get em out of here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It's very simple. If you can raise prices and still get paid, you raise prices. Sure tuition would drop, the subsidies were created to give the less fortunate a shot. Colleges would have to drop prices in order to keep rates at minimal operating levels. The banks would then be more willing to be more competitive with their rates since the market still exists. Feel free to disagree, but that's what the good Doctor was getting at. I don't see how you can't wrap your mind around the logic, even if you disagree. Would rates be higher than they are now if the federal loan program was eliminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Why not regulate tuition costs for state-schools with inflation? Texas did it for years. We stopped in 2003. Tuition exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Why not regulate tuition costs for state-schools with inflation? Texas did it for years. We stopped in 2003. Tuition exploded. Didn't you hear Rick Perry? Regulation is the debbil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Well said. I love hearing stories about successful business people today who worked while going to school full-time in past decades and that was enough to pay their tuition. They made the decision to work their ass off and they weren't laced with debt when they graduated. Now it can be argued that the value of many non-technical degrees is plunging, while the costs are still skyrocketing. Another mathematical disparity that will either correct itself with devastating effect, or need to be fixed. I work full time and attend college while paying for my own tuition out of my own pocket. I am almost done and wont have a dollar of debt by the time I graduate. I realize that others may not be as fortunate as I have been, but it is possible to do. (I am by no means saying that everyone should take this route) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You're right, it's that dastardly 2009-2011 period that's the real problem. Did you read the report I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Well yeah almost everyone does. Yet again, a genius op ed post without any meat to it. I'm sorry, I didn't know that I had to cut the meat up into pieces and feed it to you. If everyone wants to go to college... and the federal government dangles enormous loans at absurdly low interest rates in front of them... then over the long term, prices go.... BTW, you want me to show the chart of housing prices since 1982???? You can't possibly be serious. You mean to tell me that the housing sector—in which the government has provided federally guaranteed loans at below market rates to more and more people—has experienced prices growing at a rate much higher than inflation just like tuition costs? I had no idea. Luckily, I can see that you've already correctly identified this as a sheer coincidence. There can be no other explanation. What do you have other than silliness? Meat on a fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Is it because more are going to college? Perhaps the requirement for that degree shrinks or goes away when the supply thins out. The report I posted indicated the cost of student services such as IT services, health services (e.g., mental health counseling), etc. have increased as government funding has decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew_Fl Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Just an example of the current topic from the UNC system that has like 12-14 schools i believe. Just came out yesterday. The Chapel Hill campus is seriously considering a tuition hike up to 40% in a one year period. Also, coming into this school year, there were extreme budget cuts that cut faculty and classes. So you come into this school facing extreme budget cuts, then you come into next year facing a possible 40% tuition fees hike??? ....yea nothing is wrong with the current system... http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/11/05/2748830/unc-to-consider-tuition-and-fee.html#storylink=misearch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If everyone wants to go to college... and the federal government dangles enormous loans at absurdly low interest rates in front of them... then over the long term, prices go.... If demand had suddenly jumped, and the federal government stepped in around the same time, I could understand a large one-time jump in tuition costs. However, college enrollment has been incredibly high for decades. Federal student loan programs have been around for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I'm sorry, I didn't know that I had to cut the meat up into pieces and feed it to you.If everyone wants to go to college... and the federal government dangles enormous loans at absurdly low interest rates in front of them... then over the long term, prices go.... Meat on a fork. No you have to post something other than your opinion rather than silly pictures to make a point. But you can't do that. Have a couple kids, and be concerned about their future, plus maybe have some basis behing your OPINION, then we can talk sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 The report I posted indicated the cost of student services such as IT services, health services (e.g., mental health counseling), etc. have increased as government funding has decreased. Well health services are subsidized by the government so that makes sense that it would contribute. We are talking 200%. Why hasn't everything gone up 200%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If demand had suddenly jumped, and the federal government stepped in around the same time, I could understand a large one-time jump in tuition costs. However, college enrollment has been incredibly high for decades. Federal student loan programs have been around for decades. Total U.S. college and university enrollment increased about 48 percent between 1986 and 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 No you have to post something other than your opinion rather than silly pictures to make a point.But you can't do that. Have a couple kids, and be concerned about their future, plus maybe have some basis behing your OPINION, then we can talk sensible. And you call yourself fiscally conservative? You are asking for handouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Did you read the report I posted? You mean the one that merely pointed out that colleges and universities are spending more, when I've been telling you this entire time that colleges and universities are being showered with money? And the one that focused on public university budget cuts in 2008 and 2009? I'm almost surprised that I didn't post the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Demand has gone up, but the supply of information is near infinity these days. States only accredit a limited number of instutitions. This is a racket. The idea that everyone needs to go to 4 year schools, get things like mental health services and high quality trans fat free meals at solar powered facilities is the problem, and it's a problem created by both the federal and state governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If demand had suddenly jumped, and the federal government stepped in around the same time, I could understand a large one-time jump in tuition costs. However, college enrollment has been incredibly high for decades. Federal student loan programs have been around for decades. Yes, it's almost like someone in this thread has been saying that this whole time. No you have to post something other than your opinion rather than silly pictures to make a point.But you can't do that. Have a couple kids, and be concerned about their future, plus maybe have some basis behing your OPINION, then we can talk sensible. At this point, I have to believe that you're being intentionally dense. The law of supply and demand is not anyone's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Total U.S. college and university enrollment increased about 48 percent between 1986 and 2006. Guess how much tuition at your average 4-year college has increased by during that same period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 And you call yourself fiscally conservative? You are asking for handouts. ????Are you drinking tonight????? I don't get where having to spend 100+K on college has anything to do with being fiscally conservative. Please explain with something rational. ---------- Post added November-9th-2011 at 11:39 PM ---------- At this point, I have to believe that you're being intentionally dense. The law of supply and demand is not anyone's opinion. I understand supply and demand. You are insinuating it is ALL because of student loans. That isn't dense, it's stupid. But please make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ????Are you drinking tonight????? I don't get where having to spend 100+K on college has anything to do with being fiscally conservative.Please explain with something rational. The reason tuition is so high is because the tuition is getting paid. The reason our country is screwed up is because no one seems to be fiscally conservative. You want all of these benefits, no terrorists in the middle east, cheap health care, assistance with tuition but are fiscally conservative? Doesn't add up. All we are debating is rather or not it's a good idea for the government to stop subsidizing student loans. There's very good evidence that points to the subsidies as being a major contributing factor as to why tuition is so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Student loans are a real problem. They clearly inflate costs. It's an x billion $ infusion into a marketplace every single year. They make it possible for a family on $50,000 to afford that much more college, so prices go to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You mean the one that merely pointed out that colleges and universities are spending more, when I've been telling you this entire time that colleges and universities are being showered with money? And the one that focused on public university budget cuts in 2008 and 2009?I'm almost surprised that I didn't post the report. Walk me through the scenario in which federal student loan programs disappear, college tuition rates plummet quickly and precipitously enough to offset the lack of access to cheap cash, and college enrollment levels stay roughly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Walk me through the scenario in which federal student loan programs disappear, college tuition rates plummet quickly and precipitously enough to offset the lack of access to cheap cash, and college enrollment levels stay roughly the same. Why does it have to be a quick process? A market correction will occur. It will take some time. Nothing is free. Too many of us want everything for free. Entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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