The State of the Conservative Voice in the Forum and the Nation

[Predicto]

I was talking about NavyDave.

You are comparing me to NavyDave?

You cut me deep Shrek - You cut me real deep just now...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I have to plead ignorance. Your post is literally the first detailed thing I've read about the allegations. The man already doesn't have my vote, so I've only paid attention to this in passing. It was probably a bad example for this thread.

No problems. It was this last woman who came forward publicly. Obviously the validity of her claims are still up in there, but if true, they are pretty bad. Much more than simple harassment. He actually put hands on her.

[Teller]

You are comparing me to NavyDave?

You cut me deep Shrek - You cut me real deep just now...

Every thread is NOT ABOUT YOU!!! OK?!?!

Gawd!!!!!

---------- Post added November-10th-2011 at 01:57 PM ----------

Obviously the validity of her claims are still up in there, but if true, they are pretty bad.

Under the circumstances, this typo is most unfortunate.

[deejaydana]

And yet, we have not one, lone, member of Congress, but the most visible part of the new Congress, saying that it would be a great idea to not raise the debt ceiling.

Are there any Republican Presidential candidates who haven't said that completely eliminating all taxes on capital gains is a Great Idea?

How many of the Republican Presidential candidates have expressed a problem with Cain's plan to vastly increase federal taxes on the bottom 50% of workers?

Or on social issues. How many have a problem with banning abortions?

Do any of them have the guts to stand up and say that they think that amending constitutions to deny equal rights to gays is an insult to this country?

----------

Maybe the people who vote Republican think of themselves as moderate.

(Then again, I've had people announce that they don't want gays to have equal rights, but they don't think being gay should be criminal, therefore they're moderate.)

But the guys they elect, and the legislation that they pass doesn't look that way, to me.

I guess I believe in shades of gray more than you and that they do exist out in the political landscape.

[Predicto]

Every thread is NOT ABOUT YOU!!! OK?!?!

Gawd!!!!!

Whee!!

[Larry]

I guess I believe in shades of gray more than you and that they do exist out in the political landscape.

Of course I believe in them. I am one.

My point is that Republicans don't seem to.

[Teller]

Of course I believe in them. I am one.

My point is that Republicans don't seem to.

I think our choices are pretty poor, Larry. In every presidential election in my lifetime, I've voted for the "least bad" candidate. I've never been able to vote for "the best" candidate. I've pined on this board many times for an election between two great candidates; just once! Just freakin' once!!!

It's also why I sided with Obama last time around. I wanted to send a clear message to my own party that I won't tolerate the staunch, hard-right-on-everything candidates. Sure, I lean mostly right, but I agree with you. If you deny rights to ANY consenting adults, you're wrong. Period. End of story. But is that enough to make me vote for a guy with whom I have a laundry list of major, fundamental disagreements? Honestly it's not. But I'm hoping if enough of us reject BOTH extremes, we'll be offered better choices.

[/fairytale wishing]

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Under the circumstances, this typo is most unfortunate.

Lol

[Larry]

I think our choices are pretty poor, Larry. In every presidential election in my lifetime, I've voted for the "least bad" candidate. I've never been able to vote for "the best" candidate. I've pined on this board many times for an election between two great candidates; just once! Just freakin' once!!!

It's also why I sided with Obama last time around. I wanted to send a clear message to my own party that I won't tolerate the staunch, hard-right-on-everything candidates. Sure, I lean mostly right, but I agree with you. If you deny rights to ANY consenting adults, you're wrong. Period. End of story. But is that enough to make me vote for a guy with whom I have a laundry list of major, fundamental disagreements? Honestly it's not. But I'm hoping if enough of us reject BOTH extremes, we'll be offered better choices.

[/fairytale wishing]

Actually, I wasn't that upset with the choices we had in 08.

McCain lost favor with me, towards the end of the election, because he looked to me like he was moving further and further to the right, chasing his base. (And I have to confess, I was rather skeptical of "moderate Republicans" after 8 years of W, no matter how moderate they sounded.)

But for example, I thought McCain showed a lot of guts when he strongly endorsed nuclear power as a national objective. I saw that, and I figured that that's a politician who knows that saying that, before an election, will cost him some votes, but he's taking a position that will cost him votes, but it's the right ting for the country.

Granted, I thought that Obama looked like JFK II.

----------

In fact, while typing this, I find myself wondering.

If the 12 election were Obama vs McCain, Round 2, would there be a different result?

I could see McCain's age being even more of a factor. (And I'm assuming that this time, he dumps the Wild Alaskan Dingbat.) But still, I wonder.

Me, I still don't think I could vote for him. I don't think I could trust what the Tea Party/Boehner Congress would do, with a Republican President, even McCain.

But it's a kind of nice thought.

[alexey]

SOME conservatives on this board seem to think that if a poster disagrees with them on any issue or acknowledges any wackiness in the current GOP (without immediately trying to show that the Democrats did something worse once) - this necessarily means that the person they are speaking with is a biased lefty liberal and this is a biased liberal message board. I don't find that argument very compelling.

This.

Also, my personal pet peeve is when people call positions based on science and evidence to be leaning left. Don't believe in global scientific conspiracies? You lean left. Don't think that tax cuts produce economic growth in all cases? You lean left. Dislike labeling of politicians as "socialists" ? Left. Want to talk about government doing anything at all? Big government leftie. Don't belive in God? Don't even get me started. On and on and on.

I don't like government waste, and there is TONS of it. I don't like big government. The government should be efficient. The government should not create an unnecessary impediment to businesses. Government regulations should be streamlined. I am all for fiscal responsibility.

Those used to be conservative values and principles. And then things went a bit ****ing insane. Small government turned into no government. Effective regulations turned into no regulations. Less taxes turned into no taxes.

Am I leaning left? I don't see it that way. I'm just a reasonable ****ing guy.

[Guest Spearfeather]

While some here have stated that Republicans and conservatives are satisfied with the current GOP presidential field; that couldn't be further from the truth. Otherwise, what would be the explanation for all of the calls for Christie, Ryan and Rubio to get into the race?

I just don't think the Republican Party has done a very good job of presenting or "grooming " young, potential Presidential candidates, over at least the last 25 years; which puts them and their supporters in the position they are in right now.

I share some of honorary_hog's and ZoEd's sentiments and observation's, but right now, as many have noted, the forum leans to the left.

What's that phrase?......" It is what it is. "

[Predicto]

While some here have stated that Republicans and conservatives are satisfied with the current GOP presidential field; that couldn't be further from the truth. Otherwise, what would be the explanation for all of the calls for Christie, Ryan and Rubio to get into the race?

Than what explains Michele Bachman polling 20 times the support of Jon Huntsman? Or what explains the sudden mass infatuation with Donald Trump when he started spouting his birther bullcrap? I am sure that many posters here are not satisfied with the current GOP choices, but there must be a reason that so many of these lousy choices have pulled so much support.

Don't you think that has something to do with the current state of conservatism in the country?

I share some of honorary_hog's and ZoEd'ssentiments and observation's, but right now, as many have noted, the forum leans to the left.

What's that phrase?......" It is what it is. "

It leans to the left because I am so damn persuasive.

[alexey]

I share some of honorary_hog's and ZoEd's sentiments and observation's, but right now, as many have noted, the forum leans to the left.

What's that phrase?......" It is what it is. "

Only if you submit to defintions convenienty provided to you by our two awesome political parties.

[Larry]

While some here have stated that Republicans and conservatives are satisfied with the current GOP presidential field; that couldn't be further from the truth. Otherwise, what would be the explanation for all of the calls for Christie, Ryan and Rubio to get into the race?

The intersection of "anybody who isn't moderate" and "every one of these extremists has revealed their extreme-ness"?

[Jumbo]

I think the exchange between Spearfeather's reasonable premise (and those of the posters he referenced) along with Predicto's worthy questions of him in reply, is excellent grist for this mill, and helps gets things back on track.

Another diversion to the topic I'd prefer to avoid becoming prominent is which side is "worse" on this board right now, and any argument about "the board is more left; the board is more right", currently . I, and most others, have already stated that currently the board has more active apparently "left-leaning" active posters, though I think exploring why (beyond "it's just a bunch of typical libs") is certainly germane to the OP/topic.

[Guest Spearfeather]

Than what explains Michele Bachman polling 20 times the support of Jon Huntsman?

Probably, for some, because they think she has a better chance of getting the nomination. Personally, I give her no chance.

Would the Republican field be stronger or weaker with the three candidates I mentioned?

[Thiebear]

And yet, we have not one, lone, member of Congress, but the most visible part of the new Congress, saying that it would be a great idea to not raise the debt ceiling.

Are there any Republican Presidential candidates who haven't said that completely eliminating all taxes on capital gains is a Great Idea?

How many of the Republican Presidential candidates have expressed a problem with Cain's plan to vastly increase federal taxes on the bottom 50% of workers?

Or on social issues. How many have a problem with banning abortions?

Do any of them have the guts to stand up and say that they think that amending constitutions to deny equal rights to gays is an insult to this country?

----------

Maybe the people who vote Republican think of themselves as moderate.

(Then again, I've had people announce that they don't want gays to have equal rights, but they don't think being gay should be criminal, therefore they're moderate.)

But the guys they elect, and the legislation that they pass doesn't look that way, to me.

and yet we say the things Candidate Obama stated shouldn't be considered as he was pandering to the left to become President Obama.

Religious Right is a fact, Catherty files were hammering the religious types in his commentary and viewer response.

Some of you have to take every thought to the extreme:

Not repeal every abortion, but can we get that partial birth and 5th month down as being a bit much.

Not repeal every regulation, but can we discuss the absurdities

Not give Marriage but Civil unions and exact same rights

Not wanting another roads stimulus wasting money doesn't mean i want rape to go up.

[Predicto]

Probably, for some, because they think she has a better chance of getting the nomination. Personally, I give her no chance.

Would the Republican field be stronger or weaker with the three candidates I mentioned?

It would be stronger. No doubt.

But you didn't answer my question. WHY do you think that Michele Bachman has 20 times the support of Jon Huntsman in the current GOP field?

I admit I'm a liberal, but she seems crazy extreme to me, and she was considered by many to be the single loopiest member of Congress for the past few terms (perhaps along with our own loopy Democrat Cynthia McKinney). Suddenly Bachman is a for-real Presidential candidate.

The Democrats are certainly not lining up in droves to support Cynthia McKinney or Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan for President, but somehow Michele Bachman and Donald Trump and Herman Cain are getting long, loving looks from the GOP base and pulling massive polling numbers (until they shoot themselves in the foot and the next one pops up).

Doesn't that reflect anything about the way the GOP thinks right now? It sure does to me.

[Larry]

and yet we say the things Candidate Obama stated shouldn't be considered as he was pandering to the left to become President Obama.

Really? Could you tell us when we said this? We don't remember us ever speaking thus.

Religious Right is a fact, Catherty files were hammering the religious types in his commentary and viewer response.

I have no idea what you just said.

Some of you have to take every thought to the extreme:

Not repeal every abortion, but can we get that partial birth and 5th month down as being a bit much.

I could have sworn reading that the state legislature of Arizona put a measure on the ballot to define human life as beginning at conception.

Somehow that looks like an attempt to ban abortion, to me.

And I seem to recall reading, when that abortion doctor got killed, that in the US, third trimester abortions are already illegal, nationwide, unless TWO doctors certify, in writing, that either there is no chance of the fetus surviving, or that the mother's health was endangered. (And that, even in those cases, there were only three doctors in the US willing to perform them, and one of the three was the one who got killed.).

Not repeal every regulation, but can we discuss the absurdities

And I seem to recall politicians vowing to repeal every regulation passed under Democratic administrations.

Not give Marriage but Civil unions and exact same rights

Funny, I seem to recall a concept that separate but equal, wasn't.

And funny, I live in a state where it is now written into the state constitution, that not only are gays not permitted to marry, but they are forbidden (paraphrasing from memory) "any state which would be substantially equivalent to marriage".

----------

Again, I'm quite aware that a great many Republicans say hat they're moderate. (And I believe that they're sincere, when they say it). But, what the Republicans actually PASS, into law, once they get elected? Doesn't appear so moderate, to me.

[Guest Spearfeather]

It would be stronger. No doubt. ( Christie, Ryan, Rubio )

Doesn't that reflect anything about the way the GOP thinks right now?

[twa]

But you didn't answer my question. WHY do you think that Michele Bachman has 20 times the support of Jon Huntsman in the current GOP field?

If I may....It is a easy dynamic to define (though I do not think she has 20 times)

She is from a populous state and high profile in the Tea Party(which of course are very politically active)

She has also been prominent in the news as a result whereas Huntsman is from a low pop state and out of the limelight for the most part because of the Ambassadorship.

I would guess 3/4 of Americans don't even recognize his name

[Larry]

If I may....It is a easy dynamic to define (though I do not think she has 20 times)

She is from a populous state and high profile in the Tea Party(which of course are very politically active)

She has also been prominent in the news as a result whereas Huntsman is from a low pop state and out of the limelight for the most part because of the Ambassadorship.

I would guess 3/4 of Americans don't even recognize his name

I do recall Mark Russel once talking about some NE moderate Republican by saying that he supports gay marriage, and he's a member of the NRA, "thus locking up his core constituency of gay hunters from Vermont".

[twa]

yeah, start with a small out of way base in Utah,then subtract the longterm Romney supporters,then mix with a lackluster coming out effort.

btw,Predicto their RCP poll averages are within 2 points of each other....his I expect to climb a bit,but both are simply hoping to catch some momentum before the inevitable.

[Predicto]

yeah, start with a small out of way base in Utah,then subtract the longterm Romney supporters,then mix with a lackluster coming out effort.

btw,Predicto their RCP poll averages are within 2 points of each other....his I expect to climb a bit,but both are simply hoping to catch some momentum before the inevitable.

NOW they are, because Bachmann has fallen out of favor.

But a few months ago (before Perry came in), she was the frontrunner in some polls, and a strong second in others. And that was right after Donald Trump was the sudden frontrunner. And now Cain is the frontrunner.

You don't see a pattern here? The lunatics are running the asylum over there.

ps - Minnesota is not a particularly populous state. It has ten electoral votes. But that is neither here nor there.

[twa]

The highest I recall was 20 (mainly name recognition) and that didn't last long.

The early crap is easily swung and not taken seriously,even now most are uncommitted

the pattern I see is anybody but Romney vs the establishment(even Newt is gonna have him sweating before long)

ps I have more people in my backyard than Utah has in the state

Bachman has more people in her congressional district than those that voted in Huntsman....and he got 70+% of the votes

the base was not there