NFCE Blog - ESPN: Cooley Makes Sense... Let's be patient!

[NoCalMike]

Too many people got hung up on the 3-1 record, and the fact that the NFC East is pretty average this season.

Truth is, out of all 4 teams, the Redskins still remain the most void of overall talent of the 4 teams.

Philly dug themselves a hole, but lets face it even in their losses they were shooting themselves in the foot with turnovers. It wasn't that they were getting beat down.

The Cowboys have a ton of talent but that organization is dysfunctional as well so it it breeds the underachieving you see happening year after year.

The Giants started the year with a lot of injuries on defense. The offense is nothing special but has been in the same system for years, have a franchise QB, a pretty good 1-2 punch at RB etc etc etc....

And honest assessment says that without some luck and underachieving by those three teams, the 'Skins are a 4th place team in 2011.

And quite frankly, I don't care. If it means rebuilding the right way, slowly but surely, into a team that can be a consistent winner, not a "lets catch lightning in a bottle and go for it all in one season" type winning team, then I will take the growing pains that come with it.

[DieselPwr44]

Did you even try reading when I said except Kerrigan and Cooley? LMAO obviously not. Beck is garbage and your point is what?

I did read.

You said most fans would call a guy a bust after a bad game or two.

That's patently false.

BTW, were you not in the other thread blaming the Oline for all the sacks last Sunday and not John Beck?

[Destructis]

I yearn for the glory days, not of the team as much as of the fans. I remember the days of John Madden and even Howard Cosell talking about how intelligent the Skins fans were. How we made noise at the right times and were quiet when our offense was on the field. How we really knew the game of football.

Today it's "he's a Skins fan" /snicker

[GIBBSWILLOVERCOME]

But why does it take us 4-5 years to rebuild? San Francisco did not need that long to rebuild. All they do is hire a college coach and look at their record this year. Also why does Pittsburgh never rebuild? Even Cincinnati uses a rookie QB and they are better than us.

[Destructis]

But why does it take us 4-5 years to rebuild? San Francisco did not need that long to rebuild. All they do is hire a college coach and look at their record this year. Also why does Pittsburgh never rebuild? Even Cincinnati uses a rookie QB and they are better than us.

Because they had draft choices. Look at San Fran, they have a lot of first and second rounders they drafted on the team that Harbaugh took over. Cincy has been keeping draft choices and so has Pittsburgh. All three of those teams use the top round choices on OL and DL for the most part. We are just now starting to do that. Took Trent with our top choice two years ago and Kerrigan this year and Jenkins in the 2nd. It just takes time and as fans, we need to understand that and stop hoping for the "flash". Football is less about finese and more about my OL and DL knocking the other line on their asses.

[Pedro]

Did you watch the game last night? Did you see Rivers throw 2 picks and flub a simple snap with the game in the bag? How long has he been in that system?

**** happens. It just does. There no accounting for it, you just have to deal with it and the Skins are up to their collective eyeballs in it right now.

I saw Rivers throwing to Gates as if he were 9 feet tall multiple times - I noticed the commentator blame it on Gates not practising lol.

At no point was winning this year's Super Bowl a realistic goal

Hater

[DaveMason]

The last time the Redskins made the playoffs was four seasons ago. Zorn got his shot after Gibbs stepped down and turned in a 12-20 record over the next two years. After a 4-12 record under Zorn two years ago, anyone that knows football realizes that you don't go from 4-12 to being worthy of a contender in just two years.

Gibbs 2.0 took a 5-11 team and took them to the playoffs two years later. Not much difference.

I'm willing to be patient with Shanahan, but honestly, the team looks as ineffective now as they did during Zorn's final days. Insiders are now saying Shanny has "lost" the team (just like Zorn "lost" the team), and it makes me sick. I knew there would be bumps along the road, but I was hoping the team would at least show steady improvement. Instead, they get worse and worse.

[Skin'Em84]

Do I have to explain to you how the D has gotten worse? LOL. Again, do you watch the games?.

One of the major problems with our defense is our offense has gotten so anemic it can't keep our defense off the field. During our first 3 wins, we had times of possession of 32 minutes, 35 minutes, and 38 minutes. Our losses are 25, 24, 21 and 28 (that weird, fluky game against Dallas). Had our offense been able to move the ball, and keep our defense off the field, we would do much better.

Example, see second half of Eagles game. Our offense moved the ball better than the first half, our defense improved. The injuries on offense definitely hampered our defense.

[Skins Wingman]

Gibbs 2.0 took a 5-11 team and took them to the playoffs two years later. Not much difference.

I'm willing to be patient with Shanahan, but honestly, the team looks as ineffective now as they did during Zorn's final days. Insiders are now saying Shanny has "lost" the team (just like Zorn "lost" the team), and it makes me sick. I knew there would be bumps along the road, but I was hoping the team would at least show steady improvement. Instead, they get worse and worse.

when the players look like theyre giving up on the field, i would say he is starting to lose the team. our team is so undisciplined its sick.

[Bigmuss1]

Too many people got hung up on the 3-1 record, and the fact that the NFC East is pretty average this season.

Truth is, out of all 4 teams, the Redskins still remain the most void of overall talent of the 4 teams.

Philly dug themselves a hole, but lets face it even in their losses they were shooting themselves in the foot with turnovers. It wasn't that they were getting beat down.

The Cowboys have a ton of talent but that organization is dysfunctional as well so it it breeds the underachieving you see happening year after year.

The Giants started the year with a lot of injuries on defense. The offense is nothing special but has been in the same system for years, have a franchise QB, a pretty good 1-2 punch at RB etc etc etc....

And honest assessment says that without some luck and underachieving by those three teams, the 'Skins are a 4th place team in 2011.

And quite frankly, I don't care. If it means rebuilding the right way, slowly but surely, into a team that can be a consistent winner, not a "lets catch lightning in a bottle and go for it all in one season" type winning team, then I will take the growing pains that come with it.

Ahhhh, it's so nice to read a voice of reason.

[paloosa]

I hate the voice of reason because Cooley is right and so is Dan Graziano. This team starting out 3-1 made this fan base get hyped and energized because we saw what they could do if they stayed together. But when injuries to suspect O-line depth and at other key areas of the team the call for change again was high on the list. The bar was set too high after a 3-1 start instead of taking the losses as learning experiences. But those learning experiences were against teams like the Bills, Cowboys, Eagles and Panthers out of which only the Bills have a winning record. We had the Cowboys on the ropes and lost, played against the Eagles after a bye week and lost and played against a Panther team that has a rookie QB and lost. All of those games should have been at least competitive or wins. These teams weren't very good at the time we played them but they looked good when we did play them. That is what makes no sense and is hard to get past even thought Cooley and Graziano make good arguments.

[KCClybun]

"Insiders say Shanahan has lost the team"?

What insider? Jason Reid? Because every other beat writer I've read has said that feeling in the locker room, while down from what it was, it still professional and resolved, and no one's pointing fingers.

It's a well known fact that, despite being there almost every day, Jason Reid has NO sources in Redskins Park. Any talk of a lost locker room is purely speculation, and if you believe it, congrats, you've been fooled by the areas WORST, most irresponsible, petty and least connected columnist.

"Gibbs 2.0 had this team in the playoffs in two years..." So? Gibbs also left the team with a year on his contract, with the team still reeling from the murder of Sean Taylor, and with aging players on defense and pretty much no talent outside of Cooley and Moss on offense. Gibbs somehow managed to milk two playoff runs out of this team despite itself, while letting the inmates run the asylum and leaving the roster in shambles before he left. Great as Joe Gibbs was, let's quit pretending like we had some Super Bowl caliber team. We went to the playoffs, and both times the wheels came off, as the emotion needed to make those incredible runs to get INTO the playoffs wore down the team.

And the goal is not the playoffs. The goal is the Super Bowl. The playoffs are a means to the end, and neither the 2005 nor the 2007 team was going to win us the Super Bowl.

"Even Zorn did better in his time here..." Zorn did better how? In wins? Technically. But he was Head Coach in Name Only, and the wheels came off when his offense got exposed. This team could rarely line up in the right formation under Zorn, his quarterback didn't like him, and his players didn't respect him. The Zorn collapse was inevitable with the lockerroom we had, and on top of it, Zorn had absolutely no say in personnel, what scheme to run, or even what coaches and assistants to bring in. If you're saying "Zorn did better" because he got two more wins in his first season than Shanahan did, than you're delusional as frak and dumber than dirt.

What I'm seeing right now is a lot of people going "We've BEEN patient, I'm tired of being patient, it's my football team and I want wins NOW!". Too bad. This is the state we're in.

Either stay on the ride and get over the bumps, or get off it.

All these people saying "We've been waiting 20 years!". I'm sorry, maybe you wear your loyalty to a team that sucks for 20 years as a weird badge of honor, but I'm gonna say this. I love the Redskins, but if they still suck when I'm 44, you can be damn sure I'm not going to be wasting my time, energy and mental fortitude on something that makes me miserable every week. You are not special, nor do you deserve something special, just because you liked a football team for a while.

[Forever21]

With the amount of injuries on the entire offensive side of the football, it is certainly expected.

"Acceptable" is a useless description. Do you think the players are satisfied? Do you think any of them accept this? Do you think they aren't trying?

this is the thing about football that guys like you seem to have a hard time grasping.

A football season is a fluid situation. Things happen that SHOULD temper or bolster expectation.

Injuries most specifically are one of the largest factors that determine a team's fate that they have no control over.

The Redskins are a young football team with many large holes that can only be filled with another offseason's worth of work, and maybe even another one after that.

You take a young team like this and pound it with injuries and you BETTER change your expectation. You take away an entire side of the OL and open two suspect (to be kind) QBs to relentless pressure, and you better know why it's happening, and factor it to your expectation. (And clue - it's not because those backup OL guys aren't trying.)

Or just continue to sound clueless.

~Bang

I'm glad to be reading all of the calm and reasonable voices in this thread but as always Bang you sum it up perfectly.

Most of us had the 'Skins pegged as 6-10 maybe 9-7 if things went brilliantly. So considering the injuries to our OL plus Moss and Cooley why are we suprised that things are headed towards worst case scenario?

The 3-1 start was a lot of fun but it gave everyone some unreasonable expectations. People forgot how they originally pegged us and suddenly saw us as a 12-4 team which was insane. Then when we crashed and burned they began wondering "How did a potentially 12-4 team lose like that and lose three in a row?!" Which was unreasonable and lead to overreacting here on the usually sane ES.

[KingGibbs]

Even as a fan that has no problems voicing displeasure when it comes to players, coaches, owner, etc., I completely realize and understand that we are trying to fix years of muck ups.

I will however say that next year we better damn well see a dramatic improvement because we are going to have a full slate of draft picks and cap space.

[DavidGQ]

Man, IF some of these fans in here who get the chance to own a NFL team, they will be just like Snyder(before he hired Mike). Firing coaches every 2 years. Trade Orakpo for a rookie QB that was drafted in 3rd round that we passed.

I look at the poll early in the season asking us to predict how many wins we will have and most have us down as 6 - 7 wins. Those who said our D sucks need to understand why. Doesn't matter how great your D is, if they spend a lot of time on the field, they WILL get tire and give up big plays. Our D actually played great considering the amount of time they are out there. We are still a couple of drafts away from be a contender.

[KCClybun]

Man, IF some of these fans in here who get the chance to own a NFL team, they will be just like Snyder(before he hired Mike). Firing coaches every 2 years. Trade Orakpo for a rookie QB that was drafted in 3rd round that we passed.

I look at the poll early in the season asking us to predict how many wins we will have and most have us down as 6 - 7 wins. Those who said our D sucks need to understand why. Doesn't matter how great your D is, if they spend a lot of time on the field, they WILL get tire and give up big plays. Our D actually played great considering the amount of time they are out there. We are still a couple of drafts away from be a contender.

I really feel like our defense opens games strong, either forcing punts or forcing field goals.

If our offense could just manage to put 7 on the board early, I think the defense could do what it wants to do.

[herb mul-key]

Ima say it again...we done BEEN being patient...Cooley has a lot of nerve to put this back on the fans...he hasn't done **** in a while except make clay things and be a wanna be celebrity and get blown the **** up by assamwa which gave life and fired up a down eagle team/ bench

yea you tell us Chris....should we be patient 20 more years...after you blow us smoke and tell us this team is "special"...I've never said fire shinny or trade LL30 but damn...after the last 3 games...WE SUCK dude...what are we supposed to say.."it's ok, we're patient...even this Zorn had a better record...its ok keep trying boys"

FO #47 is how I really feel...I used to like you as a player always thought you were too in love w yourself but that 3 td vs Dallas etc. was good so I liked/tolerated you...but now you make NO SENSE to me...pisses me off you put being an unsatisfied fan back on us...F #47...you can all suck his jock if you want...me? I say "show me something that gives me hope cause I'm not seeing it"

Oh and #47 you looked terrible this year, get yourself in shape and don't blame anything or anybody...get healthy and in shape to play dumbass...

[communion5]

NLC1054 that was a great post, and I couldn't agree more of just about every point you made.

[GO HAMSKINS]

I did read.

You said most fans would call a guy a bust after a bad game or two.

That's patently false.

BTW, were you not in the other thread blaming the Oline for all the sacks last Sunday and not John Beck?

Man it's in writing, everything I've stated.Either you didn't read or you simply can't read. Do you realize how foolish you look right now? I said "every rookie we had besides Cooley and Kerrigan" and the first thing you utter out of your mouth is "people didn't say anything about Cooley or Kerrigan? SMGDH really? Maybe this is why I deliberately singled out the both of them(sarcasm). Anyway moving on to the Beck thing.I just disagreed with any and everyone who thinks our OL (backups) played a GREAT game but was over shadowed by the play of JB. SMH If you think are backup OL is great and the QB was to blame more power to you. I've actually moved on cause it makes no sense for me to even continue on debating about it. Let's just say it was all JB fault that he made the all GREAT backups look bad. How in the hell can you explain are rushing production lately? I know you and some of the others tried to blame JB for that too. Basically saying "If a QB is that bad the Defense will just focus on stopping the run" but even with your boy Sexy we was still rushing for 22 yrds SMFH. About the rookie it's pure facts! If you want me to I can go down each and every rookie we had that was doubted even ST21. Even ST21 was highly questioned on here after having a beast preseason. Anyway, I advise you to once again to read what I said I simple stated besides Kerrigan and Cooley.SMDH you can even quote me and it will stick out bright as day

[Kdiggy]

that's been my biggest gripe about our fanbase. We complain all the time about dan snyder's decisions, but this board is filled with ideas that are just as bad as the ones he's made.

"trade our next 5 drafts for andrew luck"

"cut landry midseason"

"trade orakpo while he still has value"

sometimes i'm grateful that snyder's our owner and not one of us.

amen bro!

[Destructis]

Ima say it again...we done BEEN being patient...Cooley has a lot of nerve to put this back on the fans...he hasn't done **** in a while except make clay things and be a wanna be celebrity and get blown the **** up by assamwa which gave life and fired up a down eagle team/ bench

yea you tell us Chris....should we be patient 20 more years...after you blow us smoke and tell us this team is "special"...I've never said fire shinny or trade LL30 but damn...after the last 3 games...WE SUCK dude...what are we supposed to say.."it's ok, we're patient...even this Zorn had a better record...its ok keep trying boys"

FO #47 is how I really feel...I used to like you as a player always thought you were too in love w yourself but that 3 td vs Dallas etc. was good so I liked/tolerated you...but now you make NO SENSE to me...pisses me off you put being an unsatisfied fan back on us...F #47...you can all suck his jock if you want...me? I say "show me something that gives me hope cause I'm not seeing it"

Oh and #47 you looked terrible this year, get yourself in shape and don't blame anything or anybody...get healthy and in shape to play dumbass...

I love posts like this one. I get ready to ream you a new one and then notice that you are NNT already. So this isn't the first time you have been a dumbass. Once I see the NNT, I laugh and calm down because you are who we thought you were.

[DaveMason]

"Insiders say Shanahan has lost the team"?

What insider? Jason Reid? Because every other beat writer I've read has said that feeling in the locker room, while down from what it was, it still professional and resolved, and no one's pointing fingers.

It's a well known fact that, despite being there almost every day, Jason Reid has NO sources in Redskins Park. Any talk of a lost locker room is purely speculation, and if you believe it, congrats, you've been fooled by the areas WORST, most irresponsible, petty and least connected columnist.

I'm referring to Lavarleap56. He seems to have connections and he has been spot on before...and he seems to be indicating that Shanny lost a lot of players by benching Rex.

"Gibbs 2.0 had this team in the playoffs in two years..." So?

"So" the whole line about it being impossible to turn around a crummy team in two years is a load of crap. You can give me the "oh that playoff run was just a fluke" baloney all you want, but I thought the 2005 squad was a pretty good team.

And the goal is not the playoffs. The goal is the Super Bowl. The playoffs are a means to the end, and neither the 2005 nor the 2007 team was going to win us the Super Bowl.

I agree with this. The goal isn't the playoffs. And you're right, we weren't good enough in those years to win the Super Bowl. But you are also kidding yourself if you think we'll ever win a Super Bowl with Shanny.

"Even Zorn did better in his time here..." Zorn did better how? In wins? Technically. But he was Head Coach in Name Only, and the wheels came off when his offense got exposed. This team could rarely line up in the right formation under Zorn, his quarterback didn't like him, and his players didn't respect him. The Zorn collapse was inevitable with the lockerroom we had, and on top of it, Zorn had absolutely no say in personnel, what scheme to run, or even what coaches and assistants to bring in. If you're saying "Zorn did better" because he got two more wins in his first season than Shanahan did, than you're delusional as frak and dumber than dirt.

Are you talking to somebody else, or did you just make up that quote? I hope you don't think I'm a dumb delusional dirt-frak based on a quote that you entirely made up. There are plenty of real reasons to think I'm delusional.

I never said Zorn was better. I just said the team looks as ineffective now as they did under Zorn. Zorn had Snyder and Vinny putting together the roster. What's Shanny's excuse?

[Skins Wingman]

I really feel like our defense opens games strong, either forcing punts or forcing field goals.

If our offense could just manage to put 7 on the board early, I think the defense could do what it wants to do.

ur back asswards here...

every game we go into the hole early, and have to change our strategy to play catch up. we play better defense as the game goes on but our offense cant do anything

[hunterx]

ur back asswards here...

every game we go into the hole early, and have to change our strategy to play catch up. we play better defense as the game goes on but our offense cant do anything

It's not ass backwards nor is what you said correct. It differs week to week, but at least you both agree that the offense can't do anything on a consistent basis to give the defense breathing room !

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

But why does it take us 4-5 years to rebuild? San Francisco did not need that long to rebuild. All they do is hire a college coach and look at their record this year. Also why does Pittsburgh never rebuild? Even Cincinnati uses a rookie QB and they are better than us.

7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8, 6-10. Those numbers are the season records of the 49ers since their last playoff berth in 2002, and before their 6-1 start now. See, this is the problem with our fans, we get penis envy with every team that "didn't need to rebuild", not realizing that they actually did rebuild and had their fair share of ups and downs in the process.

Pittsburgh has had 2 coaches in about the last 20 years, they've got a system in-place and it works, we (in the past 20 years) look nothing like the Steelers organization, in-fact you could say we're the exact opposite.

Cincy was 4-12 last year, but one year removed from a 10-6 season. The years before that they were 4-11, 7-9, 8-8, most of their team has been put in place over the past few years and the infusion of an exceptional QB & WR combination paired with an already solid defense and they are looking pretty good. The Redskins have been consistently at the bottom of the league in terms of teams with the lowest retention rate for draft picks over those years. Should be no surprise to see us struggling to find young talent ready to breakout.

Gibbs 2.0 took a 5-11 team and took them to the playoffs two years later. Not much difference.

I'm willing to be patient with Shanahan, but honestly, the team looks as ineffective now as they did during Zorn's final days. Insiders are now saying Shanny has "lost" the team (just like Zorn "lost" the team), and it makes me sick. I knew there would be bumps along the road, but I was hoping the team would at least show steady improvement. Instead, they get worse and worse.

You forgot to mention that Gibbs 2.0 also followed up a playoff season with a 6-10 record after we tried to do the same thing we always do (throw a bunch of money and big names at the problem). Another thing you failed to mention is that Joe Gibbs left us with a crumbling foundation that Vinny, Zorn and Snyder didn't even try to fix, they just tried to throw some glitter on it and make it look good. Shanahan and Allen have a unique situation to rectify, and it's nothing like any other team in the NFL.

Ima say it again...we done BEEN being patient...Cooley has a lot of nerve to put this back on the fans...he hasn't done **** in a while except make clay things and be a wanna be celebrity and get blown the **** up by assamwa which gave life and fired up a down eagle team/ bench

yea you tell us Chris....should we be patient 20 more years...after you blow us smoke and tell us this team is "special"...I've never said fire shinny or trade LL30 but damn...after the last 3 games...WE SUCK dude...what are we supposed to say.."it's ok, we're patient...even this Zorn had a better record...its ok keep trying boys"

FO #47 is how I really feel...I used to like you as a player always thought you were too in love w yourself but that 3 td vs Dallas etc. was good so I liked/tolerated you...but now you make NO SENSE to me...pisses me off you put being an unsatisfied fan back on us...F #47...you can all suck his jock if you want...me? I say "show me something that gives me hope cause I'm not seeing it"

Oh and #47 you looked terrible this year, get yourself in shape and don't blame anything or anybody...get healthy and in shape to play dumbass...

Sounds like you buy anything a coach or even a player tells you. Maybe they did feel good about themselves, maybe they did feel like they could compete (and before everything went to **** with injuries we were, for the most part).

I'm 28, I only remember the Redskins having 1 great season and that was '91, I've been diehard since then. I moved to Atlanta when I was 10 and stuck with the Skins even through Pettibon, Norv, etc. even though I could have easily jumped shipped. If anyone deserves to be completely impatient in wanting this team to win, I'd say it's me. Now, I know you're older than me, and have had many more good times with the Redskins than I have, and maybe you've been spoiled due to that. But for real, you sound like a whiny like girl with all of this. You're blaming Shanahan and Allen for not being able to correct a decade of mismanagement, do you realize how idiotic that sounds? Just because it's been 20 years for the team as a whole doesn't mean they should only be given a year and a half (both years affected by the lockout) to get it right. Yes it sucks Dan just seemed to figure out what he needs to do, yes it sucks that we may have to go through another year or 2 or 3 of sucking, but I'll gladly accept that if we're building properly (and that's the feeling I currently get), over the way Dan & Vinny used to do it (and the way fans seemingly want it done)—changing coaches, systems and players year in and year out.