Chalk Talk: Playing In the Trenches (Part 1)

[MassSkinsFan]

Here's an idea I just thought of: Use the TE as a wham type blocker. Have the G/T block out, pull the TE to the 1 hole to knock out any defenders sitting in the gap and run the ball off his butt. It would take a second to develop, in order to get the TE down there. But it would be fun to see how it worked. Especially if you're facing a team that lines their DTs head up on the guards. Have the guard ignore him and go to linebacker and then bust that guy in the mouth with a pulling TE

If the C blocked down on the DT then let the DT slip the block you'd have the DT's resistance moving him right into the cross-hairs...

I like this idea. I'm picturing the DT looking confused, possibly contemplating why there's no resistance then BLAMMO!

[KDawg]

If the C blocked down on the DT then let the DT slip the block you'd have the DT's resistance moving him right into the cross-hairs...

I like this idea. I'm picturing the DT looking confused, possibly contemplating why there's no resistance then BLAMMO!

Because its a longer developing play, the C would have to occupy him for a second, keeping an eye on the TE... When the TE was in range, I'd have the C slip off and get to the second level to clean up riff raff. It might get cluttered, or it might be genius

[MassSkinsFan]

PS - If you don't already do this, it can be a lot of fun to end practice with the QBs and OL together where you're sending out 2 OL on deep routes and letting the QB throw a bomb to his receiver of choice. Good exercise for OL (and a new hand-eye coordination challenge to haul in a long pass coming in over your shoulder in stride) and hilarity for everyone watching.

[KDawg]

PS - If you don't already do this, it can be a lot of fun to end practice with the QBs and OL together where you're sending out 2 OL on deep routes and letting the QB throw a bomb to his receiver of choice. Good exercise for OL (and a new hand-eye coordination challenge to haul in a long pass coming in over your shoulder in stride) and hilarity for everyone watching.

Our Head Coach let our team captain (who was our starting LT) come up with our conditioning drill to end practice. The kid asked me what I thought and I said, "I don't know... I can think of a LINEMAN DRILL *cough* that would be fun. He just smiled and walked away.

At the end of practice, time for conditioning the kid yells, "GRAVITY DRILL!"

All the linemen fall and hit the ground, and lay, face up, flat on the ground looking at the sky. The non linemen didn't know what to do until they caught on and hit the ground. Boom.

Gravity drill is a lineman favorite. You literally just lay there for a second. We do it to give the kids a break and they love it. (It's not done often. I think we used it twice this year )

[Darth Tater]

Offensive linemen are probably only second to a QB in terms of football knowledge and may actually have greater overall knowledge. Thing is, this is part of the reason they can come in as UDFAs, street guys and late rounders as well as mid-rounders and high picks. There are just so many intangibles that make an olineman good and the measurables pretty much only tell you if the guy can physically do the job. The offensive line is the place where mental issues are always killers (esp. at higher levels) and many physical issues can be worked around. The other area is the importance of teamwork. A 'good enough' offensive line that has played together for a time is almost certainly going to be better than a line made up of superstars who never played together. Finally, as far as the NFL goes, linemen are often able to play at a high level well into their 30s (of the non-specialists, only top QBs seem to last longer). Other positions are called skill positions because that's pretty much the most important thing they bring to the table, football intelligence (except maybe at QB) is pretty much a nice-to-have at the lower levels. While skills are important, linemen have great football intelligence first. OK, disclaimer, I was mostly was an offensive tackle when I played. I also played LB, FB, TE and HB for a time but my skills were lacking even at the HS level.

[brandymac27]

Ok, I just want to thank the OP for writing these types of threads. As someone who is a big fan of the Redskins, and football in general, but doesn't know a lot about the X's and O's- they provide a LOT of information to me. I learn quite a bit from them and hope you will continue to make these. You should even consider compiling all these threads together into some type of football book.

This may be OT, but I'm wondering if you have already done a chalk talk on the LB position? I am interested in learning about the overall differences b/w OLB and MLB (size, athletic ability, etc) and how the 2 positions differ in the 3-4, 4-3, and hybrids.

[KDawg]

Ok, I just want to thank the OP for writing these types of threads. As someone who is a big fan of the Redskins, and football in general, but doesn't know a lot about the X's and O's- they provide a LOT of information to me. I learn quite a bit from them and hope you will continue to make these. You should even consider compiling all these threads together into some type of football book.

This may be OT, but I'm wondering if you have already done a chalk talk on the LB position? I am interested in learning about the overall differences b/w OLB and MLB (size, athletic ability, etc) and how the 2 positions differ in the 3-4, 4-3, and hybrids.

I haven't done one specifically on backers. Gonna work on line ones for my next few... But, I can do LBs for you, too at some point

---------- Post added October-27th-2011 at 05:00 PM ----------

Other positions are called skill positions because that's pretty much the most important thing they bring to the table, football intelligence (except maybe at QB) is pretty much a nice-to-have at the lower levels. .

Now, you said this... Not me... But I like it. They can have skill positions... We'll take: Intelligent/athletic position as the linemen description.

Now, don't shoot me, "skill" guys, aim your arrows at Tater!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I haven't done one specifically on backers. Gonna work on line ones for my next few... But, I can do LBs for you, too at some point :

:idea: You could do one just for everyone's favourite Sooner just so he can get up to speed faster when he gets here next Spring. :pfft:

Hail.

[KDawg]

:idea: You could do one just for everyone's favourite Sooner just so he can get up to speed faster when he gets here next Spring. :pfft:

Hail.

Sam Bradford or Ryan Broyles?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Sam Bradford or Ryan Broyles?

You can see this finger right bro?

HUMPH!

Hail.

[brandymac27]

I haven't done one specifically on backers. Gonna work on line ones for my next few... But, I can do LBs for you, too at some point

That would be awesome!!!!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

That would be awesome!!!!

*Mumbles it would as I get most of my X's and O's knowledge too from these first class threads. But he still knows jack about QB talent. HUMPH!

Hail.

[SWFLSkins]

Thanks all.

SWFL, you're correct. But that comes with knowing the assignment, so I didn't put it in for the sake of not wanting to sound like a broken record. But you're 100% on the money.

My nephews best friend played guard and tackle at Purdue a few years back and I was messing with him talking about football and we were drinking a bit. Well me the safety type and him the immovable object type had a few goes before my common sense and age kicked in and I stopped. He would dictate 95% of the time which way I ended up going or falling. He would even call it out. Then he was saying that can you imagine having to do that every play and the guys around you count on you winning your battle? I knew some of the ins and outs of OL but he was a two or three year starter on a team that primarily ran the ball. It was quite a lesson in balance and quickness. For a big guy he was amazingly agile and really never had to use his size or strength to put me where he wanted me. I always knew that OL dictated the game for the most part but I had a new found appreciation for the position ever since then.

[Darth Tater]

Now, you said this... Not me... But I like it. They can have skill positions... We'll take: Intelligent/athletic position as the linemen description.

Now, don't shoot me, "skill" guys, aim your arrows at Tater!

I was going to say something else but I edited it as nicely as I could

I was also going to add that the reason I wasn't very good at tackle is that I was too nice. Good OT are probably among the meanest football guys I've met.

[brandymac27]

*Mumbles it would as I get most of my X's and O's knowledge too from these first class threads. But he still knows jack about QB talent. HUMPH!

Hail.

I respect him a lot. He knows a lot about the game. I know you're just messing around though!

[Deadeye Dunkan]

Thank you for this thread. As a college offensive lineman myself it's good to know that somebody else knows how much it takes to play on the O line. As you said everything has to be perfect. For example, a tackle pass setting a DE or OLB if he has even a small fall false step instead of kicking vertical with his back foot he is beat and probably gives up a sack. Run game, if the lineman doesn't get cover (shoulders square with head in front) on the guy he's supposed to block, the RB may not make the right read or you get beat. So much stuff to know man, soooo much stuff.

Hail.

[Bobbyst21]

Great post man. We had a few kids that thought that exact same way last year.( i didnt do any coaching this year as my boy took a year off sadly) And the head coach kind of made them feel that way in my most honest opinion. I mean he did what he thought was right but the season record showed otherwise. I hate seeing the kids get down on themselves thinking they gotta be Randy Moss or Barry Sanders or Tom Brady to make their parents, friends, and girls happy. Like you said, take those "nonathletic" people off the field and see what happens. And i saw it on the defensive line as well. My son played ROLB and i kind of inherited the LB coaching spot for 3 years(more community type, not HS level) and worked with the DL as well. In all honesty i couldnt stand the coach and when he called me to coach this year i turned him down. My son will tell me different but i think he didnt want to spend another afternoon with the man.

Anyway great write up.

[KDawg]

Thank you for this thread. As a college offensive lineman myself it's good to know that somebody else knows how much it takes to play on the O line. As you said everything has to be perfect. For example, a tackle pass setting a DE or OLB if he has even a small fall false step instead of kicking vertical with his back foot he is beat and probably gives up a sack. Run game, if the lineman doesn't get cover (shoulders square with head in front) on the guy he's supposed to block, the RB may not make the right read or you get beat. So much stuff to know man, soooo much stuff.

Hail.

Not to mention, you can't turn your shoulders until a certain point. On a 5 step drop, you have to stay square, in your kick and covering the defender until you're at seven yards. As you know, it's extremely difficult to know when you're at 7 yards.

The reason for that is, for anyone not aware, is that once you get to 7 yards, you keep the sanctity of the pocket in tact on a 5 step drop. At that point, block the guy by any means necessary. There's so much to this game. It's why I love it.

Hopefully you'll be around when I post 2nd and 3rd or however many parts I do. While I'm confident in my knowledge, I know different coaches and players have different ways of doing things. So it'll be nice to hear other perspectives.

[Deadeye Dunkan]

Yeah I'll be around. I can talk this all day. I do it everyday lol. Another thing is picking up the blitz on the run, reading and reacting to the blitz is key. My school's bread and butter is picking up the blitz on the run. We love it when we play a team that blitz 75% of the time or higher. My coach always says, "you pick up the blitz, good things happen". But it all comes down to as well to communication.

[JK79]

I was an interesting case in highschool. My freshman year I came into school 6'2" and 260 pounds, and a little chubby but fit. The coach saw me and instantly stuck me on JV as a lineman. I remember that I didnt receive any position specific coaching for the entire year. All of the coaches just assumed that I already knew all of those techniques, but I had never played football before. They would just keep telling me to be more physical, so I got softball batter pads and started my blocks with an armbar to the face.

I share a similar story to you, Annonymous. Baseball was my first love. I was 6'3" and around 250lbs. and always in the weight room. I was a decent first baseman and around the age of 16 one of the Varsity O-Line coaches just happened to also be my baseball all-star coach. He said, "I am going to make you into a football player. You need to come try out." I spent the following summer sweating out 2-a-days and getting into "football shape" (my favorite Shanahan-ism). No one really took the time to explain the basics of hand-position, footwork, etc. It was just, "He's big so he must be able to figure it out." I never did.

KDawg thanks for the insight on to what I should have been taught and for making me realize that I know nothing about the position I "played".

Hail!

[CrypticVillain]

But it all comes down to as well to communication.

I don't mean to put subject on the Redskins, even though this is ExtremeSkins, but I think this is the obvious reason why we have been struggling on the O-line. When our O-line was clicking we had Jansen on one side, Samuels on the other side with Rabach, Thomas, and Dockery holding the middle. Yes, they were talented, but the reason they were able to kick some butt was because of the continuity. One by one they all went away and we haven't found the right mix of talent, nor have we had the time to let the O-line develop. I got us drafting an O-Linemen within those first three picks in next year's draft. Besides that, we just have to let them develop.

Edit: The same could be said for our receivers and QB's as well. That is another topic, for another day....

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I respect him a lot. He knows a lot about the game. I know you're just messing around though!

:secret: I am about the QB thang ..... maybe ..... reluctantly ..... oh ok, he may be right darn it. But don't tell him. It's a secret. The longer he doesn't know that I know that he doesn't know that he's right and I may or may not know if I'm wrong as he thinks he knows I am whilst knowing he's right the better. (Lot of 'knows' in there, but just smile and wave and let it confuse him if he catches it. ).

But I wasn't about the X's and O's. He's my coaching guru. Most everything I know I owe it all to KD. (Which given I've been accused of knowing little today (polite version); makes me wonder why I keep coming back to him. .).

Hail.

[Darth Tater]

:secret: I am about the QB thang ..... maybe ..... reluctantly ..... oh ok, he may be right darn it. But don't tell him. It's a secret. The longer he doesn't know that I know that he doesn't know that he's right and I may or may not know if I'm wrong as he thinks he knows I am whilst knowing he's right the better. (Lot of 'knows' in there, but just smile and wave and let it confuse him if he catches it. ).

But I wasn't about the X's and O's. He's my coaching guru. Most everything I know I owe it all to KD. (Which given I've been accused of knowing little today (polite version); makes me wonder why I keep coming back to him. .).

Hail.

Well, there's only about 2 guys I trust implicitly when it comes to grading a QB. Neither posts here and if you got the opportunity to ask them who they think is good, they'd probably lie to you anyway.

[KDawg]

Well, there's only about 2 guys I trust implicitly when it comes to grading a QB. Neither posts here and if you got the opportunity to ask them who they think is good, they'd probably lie to you anyway.

Oh, thanks for the vote of confidence

Actually, I don't trust anyone when it comes to QB evaluation... Including myself... So I see where you're coming from...

:whisper: I really don't trust GHH with QB evaluation, though, he thinks Landry Jones is good

[Darth Tater]

KDawg,

I really trust only the evaluations of guys who are paid enough to do evals full time and have their butts on the line if they screw up too often (only about 32 guys at max:)) and even they get it right less than half the time. Of course, those guys are also incented to misdirect you if you ask. Now, some may retire but after a few years out, I would no longer put much stock in their evals.